"We need every hunter, hiker and walker to keep their eyes out for Kyron"

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cluciano63 said:
One of the reasons I think this must have been accidental, if Terri is guilty, is because I can't imagine a reason for killing Kyron, unless she is truly insane.

Therefore, I can't imagine a pre-planned spot to bury him.

(The other reason I can't get to pre-planned is the totally wonky alibi, missing an hour or so. I would have made sure to be on camera or at home on my computer, unless we are assuming she drove Kyron around until 10AM and then spent the time between 10-11:20 or so to dispose of him. Which doesn't make sense either...nothing makes sense about Terri doing this, to me.)
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Its great that everyone thinks differently and has their own opinion....i think it helps us all see the bigger picture. If I had to guess what happened to him, "accidental" would be nowhere near the top of my list.

So to play devil's advocate and keep an open mind:
What makes you believe it was accidental? Just curious...
Because I can't think of a good reason why this would be accidental. For example say in theory: if he accidentally slipped at the science fair and hurt himself so she hid it and him ....it just doesn't add up to me. Another thing, she would have had to lure him out of the school during or after the (open and busy) science fair in order to take him anywhere. That says to me, if she did anything to him, it was pre-meditated and planned out.
 
LindseyLou said:
Its great that everyone thinks differently and has their own opinion....i think it helps us all see the bigger picture. If I had to guess what happened to him, "accidental" would be nowhere near the top of my list.

So to play devil's advocate and keep an open mind:
What makes you believe it was accidental? Just curious...
Because I can't think of a good reason why this would be accidental. For example say in theory: if he accidentally slipped at the science fair and hurt himself so she hid it and him ....it just doesn't add up to me. Another thing, she would have had to lure him out of the school during or after the (open and busy) science fair in order to take him anywhere. That says to me, if she did anything to him, it was pre-meditated and planned out.
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What I posted said why I thought this could be true, because I just can't think of any reason why she would kill him on purpose...neither can his own parents and no one in her life has indicated she had any problem with Kyron. In other cases where a parent kills a child, it is seldom out of the blue, there is usually a history, of mental issues on the parent's part, or abuse issues with the child. (I saiid "usually"-I'm sure there are cases...)
 
eyes4crime said:
BBM

I like this message: every hunter, hiker and walker need to keep their eyes open for Kyron - can't think of a truer statement or a more productive call for help. hoo

Fully believe that Kyron will be found somewhat close to home. Hopefully, sooner than we expect. moo mho
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Hi Eyes, Especially at this time of year in the Pacific Northwest. The leaves are falling and summer grasses dying down. It is happening slower this year it seems as I still have wild blackberries on the vine. Yesterday the body of a man was found an hour and a half away from Portland lying in a field. I guess it is just as good or better of a time for the public to spot something odd they run across.

I too believe he will be found very close to home just by the cases we've studied here over the years. I type that with a heavy heart for Kyron, our very unique little manchild. xox
 
cluciano63 said:
One of the reasons I think this must have been accidental, if Terri is guilty, is because I can't imagine a reason for killing Kyron, unless she is truly insane.

Therefore, I can't imagine a pre-planned spot to bury him.

(The other reason I can't get to pre-planned is the totally wonky alibi, missing an hour or so. I would have made sure to be on camera or at home on my computer, unless we are assuming she drove Kyron around until 10AM and then spent the time between 10-11:20 or so to dispose of him. Which doesn't make sense either...nothing makes sense about Terri doing this, to me.)
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Hi, It does seem unfathomable Cluciano, I agree. But we learned in the Scott Peterson case that one of the main reasons people kill someone on purpose is to do away with a threat the person has on them that will change their lifestyle.

Dr Albough [sp] said this in an interview with Dan Abrams on MSNBC during that case, saying Scott didn't want the lifestyle of being a father and husband and wanted the life of a playboy type guy.

Here IMO we might have a a stepmother to a child that was not natal to her for starters. Depending on what was going on in that household with tensions between people and possible activities, if Kyron had threatened to tell Kaine about what he had seen, Terri might consider that a threat to the lifestyle marriage afforded her, like having financial freedom and still be able to do her own thing when Kaine was at work. Remember that Desiree said Kyron saw everything - he was there.

I would call that a prime motive for her to engineer his disappearance which most likely has led to his murder. IMO




PS: My 89 yr old mother told me out of the blue one day she thinks the stepmother sold Kyron and an influencing factor was there wasn't the normal mother/son bond as he was not her own birth child.

We'll see if she was right. Actually at that time I poo poo'ed what she said as ridiculous. Now I'm not sure :waitasec:
 
I'm going to be gross here ... but this is what I have found out to be true as I am a farmer with livestock ... and I am observant and frequent the woods, and often have to investigate why there is vulture activity ...

Another thing about carrion birds such as the turkey vultures we have here in Oregon. If something is large enough when it rains it will cause the deceased animal to smell again and the vultures will take a swing by to investigate.

Turkey vultures need to be able to swoop down. If something is covered they cannot get to it, even though they may be able to smell it. For instance I have investigated birds flying over trees only to find a dead squirrel. the vultures would swing by but could not get to it because of the canopy. A road kill deer in the ditch will dry out over the summer but when the rains come it will become fragrant once again and will cause the vultures to swoop.

If you see a turkey vulture take a swing by then there IS something there ... could be a deer or a squirrel ... if they keep swooping by more than once but are not landing it is because something is too covered by trees or underbrush or could be a very shallow grave. If there is something and it is unacceptable then they will just swoop ... and it will only be one to four of them but they won't land.

The other thing is that Turkey Vultures migrate around October 10th and do not come back until early April.

Now would be a good time for local people to keep an eye out ... but the area is so large... *sigh*

Maybe this will help.
 
Yes, the above is gross...I don't even want to quote it.

But, sadly...also helpful.

I hope all the locals take note.
 
yeah, I'm a pretty practical woman (I have to be) ... having to share all of that in these circumstances has put me in tears
 
Purple Turtle, it's not gross. I live in a rural part of OR and I thank God for the buzzards who keep the roads clean and the pastures after mowing. Imagine the vermin and disease that would exist without them. I thought they may be gone already this year, as I haven't seen any lately though. Thanks for the buzzard education!
 
If it was premeditated I also wouldn't be surprised if it was something that was made to look like an accident.

Example that I had a nightmare about recently: I know from pictures that Kyron spent time in the pool and/or took lessons. But do we know if he was a strong enough swimmer to get out of a pond/lake if put in there?

Simply leaving someone in the woods would require going pretty far into the woods, risking them getting out or being found in the days he would be alive...which I think is highly unlikely.

Making it look like an accident in any scenario would also require it be within walking distance of the school...and I think that is also unlikely.


Billylee said:
Deer hunting rifle season opens here soon. It's usually the last week of sept or 1st week of Oct.

I asked this on another thread, but does anyone know if they searched the Rainbow Lake area. I'm not finding that they did. It's just beyond the 5 mile grid and is only 8 minutes by car from the school.
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This is the area I have wanted them to search for a very long time. To my knowledge, no they did not do a thorough search. I think it would explain a lot of the "evidence" that we have heard about. I also think it would be consistent with an "easy disposal of evidence" as I don't think she buried anything.

We have to remember she had baby K too. She would have kept the truck in site with her in it if she didn't have DeDe and even if she had DeDe, wouldn't want to be parked anywhere for long. Rainbow Lake or several other close bodies of water, afforded her a great location to do just that. It likely had to be somewhere that she could keep the truck in sight, which doesn't leave many options for going into the woods very far...which makes water a much more likely choice. :twocents:
 
Did they find any evidence, or anything of substance in or around the smoke stacks at the school?
I am looking for any links pertaining to the search at the school itself.
TIA.
Did the *dogs pick up any scent at the school?
Inside the school.
*cadaver dogs
​
 
LindseyLou said:
Good point. Did she hire any landscapers to dig ANYWHERE????
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Hi LindseyLou, In this area it is often difficult to dig in the dirt. If it has been dug before then fine, it will be softer. We also have a lot of rocks in the soil due to all the volcanic and glacier history a long time ago. Then add to that in June the weather is usually drier even if it rains once in awhile.

I think that is why bodies are often found under leaves and branches and here are 2 examples:

*Brooke Wilberger was found close to a tree covered in branches and leaves.

*The Elma Jane Doe not far north of here in Wa State was found off a logging road in the woods in a similar way and not buried.

I could go on with serial killings in the area, people thrown into ravines, etc. Maybe it is also why so many people wash up from streams, rivers and lakes around here. Simple and no extra hard work in digging. IMO

PS: The Skyline area has a lot of plowed fields and farms. It also has allot of forest area where the soil is virgin, hard and rocky. Just take the area around the confluence of Skyline Rd and Newberry Rd. and you'll see where the fields meet the forest.
 
Kimster said:
The area around the Horman house has a lot of woods. When Free and I went there I kept telling her I really felt that Kyron was in that area. I'm not kidding! Here's a link to a pic taken on Sheltered Nook.

http://s876.photobucket.com/albums/...August 2010/?action=view&current=100_1489.jpg
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Thanks so much for those pics Kimster. I went thru them all and you really captured the feeling for the area.

Your shots so typify the Oregon woods. They look pretty virgin to me. I have also felt he is tucked out there somewhere close by. I even thought on the back of the Horman's small acreage if there is access to that clearing spot one can see on Google. It wouldn't take long for a visual of where he might have been put to become grown over in short order.

One thing, I don't think whoever put him where he is would either travel far to the spot or take him very far off the road, eh? xox
 
butterfly1978 said:
I think Terri is responsible for his death but I don't think that Terri killed Kyron........Let me explain. I think Kyron was alive in the truck and willingly went with Terri, I think she went to the store and got some meds and made Kyron take them maybe made him sleepy, took him out to a place maybe in the woods and took his glasses and left him there. He was blind without his glasses, maybe drugged, and just abandonded somewhere.
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That is still first degree murder.
 
LindseyLou said:
I agree that she probably wouldn't have buried him - if she did, it was just enough to cover him - not deep enough to never be found.

I'm willing to bet that if she did need to hide his body that she had the place all figured out prior to putting him there. I believe that she planned this all out like some murder mystery novel and I'm more than willing to bet that she thought at some point to herself or said outloud to a friend, after watching her crime shows, "if I were going to kill someone and dispose of a body, I would put it at location X and it would NEVER be found" and that's where he is if she did do something to him. I think she's more calculated than Casey Anthony and therefore wouldn't just toss him somewhere off the side of a road. I just keep picturing this vertical concrete pipe with maybe a lid and/or possibly water at the bottom of it it - sort of like a well or abandoned construction or even old farm land.
Another thing I keep thinking about lately is how right when he disappeared they were announcing that he can't see very well without his glasses and how he wouldn't have ventured very far from the school because he's afraid of getting lost. Do you think she would have played up on that aspect to try to make it look like an accident? I also remember them saying there were lots of blackberry or briar patches (?) and anyone could easily get lost in them and never find their way out. I just wonder if that has any relevance to his location.

I'm still just sooooo puzzled as to what would give her enough reason to kill this child that she pretty much helped raise. It would've had to be something monumental for her to go to these extremes and I still can't figure out any motive that makes sense as to why she would have just stashed him somewhere. I'm truly puzzled with this one.
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BBM What about a septic tank with a cover on some neglected farm? I pictured that from your vision. I heard of a teen who killed and hid parents in their own septic tank, I think - doubt I'd imagine that on my own not knowing much about septic tanks.

What a thought before bedtime. No wonder I don't sleep that good lately, huh.
 
LindseyLou said:
I agree that she probably wouldn't have buried him - if she did, it was just enough to cover him - not deep enough to never be found.

I'm willing to bet that if she did need to hide his body that she had the place all figured out prior to putting him there. I believe that she planned this all out like some murder mystery novel and I'm more than willing to bet that she thought at some point to herself or said outloud to a friend, after watching her crime shows, "if I were going to kill someone and dispose of a body, I would put it at location X and it would NEVER be found" and that's where he is if she did do something to him. I think she's more calculated than Casey Anthony and therefore wouldn't just toss him somewhere off the side of a road. I just keep picturing this vertical concrete pipe with maybe a lid and/or possibly water at the bottom of it it - sort of like a well or abandoned construction or even old farm land.

Another thing I keep thinking about lately is how right when he disappeared they were announcing that he can't see very well without his glasses and how he wouldn't have ventured very far from the school because he's afraid of getting lost. Do you think she would have played up on that aspect to try to make it look like an accident? I also remember them saying there were lots of blackberry or briar patches (?) and anyone could easily get lost in them and never find their way out. I just wonder if that has any relevance to his location.

I'm still just sooooo puzzled as to what would give her enough reason to kill this child that she pretty much helped raise. It would've had to be something monumental for her to go to these extremes and I still can't figure out any motive that makes sense as to why she would have just stashed him somewhere. I'm truly puzzled with this one.
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Great post! And I agree...particularly with your bolded observations. Remember this quote about Terri:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

"She had those kids walking down the hall in a straight line not talking," the former colleague said. "She was really organized. She had everything laid out for days ahead. She was really in control of what she was doing. "

I have given up trying to understand the capacity for human cruelty. Time and again, we look at these seemingly normal human faces...and then later have to image their victims seeing that face, often a face they loved and trusted,...as they die some horrific death.

There really can be no way a sane, feeling person can give a logical explanation of what motivates these "creatures."
 
Even biological parents sometimes kill their own children ~ not all human beings have the kindness gene or the ability to love unconditionally.

More's the pity. :(
 
stmarysmead said:
Great post! And I agree...particularly with your bolded observations. Remember this quote about Terri:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

"She had those kids walking down the hall in a straight line not talking," the former colleague said. "She was really organized. She had everything laid out for days ahead. She was really in control of what she was doing. "

I have given up trying to understand the capacity for human cruelty. Time and again, we look at these seemingly normal human faces...and then later have to image their victims seeing that face, often a face they loved and trusted,...as they die some horrific death.

There really can be no way a sane, feeling person can give a logical explanation of what motivates these "creatures."
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Walking down the hall quietly and organized is cruel? :(
 
Let's stay on track in here about searching for Kyron please.

It's been raining a lot here this past week. Anyone who has been involved with SAR who can tell us what that may mean if Kyron is in the woods?
 
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