Wendy Murphy: Klonopin + pineapple?

[magpie]

Wasn't Dr. Beuf called in the morning of the "kidnapping" for Patsy's sake?

There was a doctor called to the house very quickly, and I think it was Beuf. I read this somewhere recently that he gave Patsy sedatives that morning.

 

[twinkiesmom]

If she stopped breathing due to a sedating drug, you can throw out the entire potty range scenario completely.

One of the aspects, I believe, from the Schiller book was that Patsy would not have wanted JBR to have lived in a brain damaged state, and the head blow might have been an intentional coup de grace to end the life of a child who had stopped breathing for many minutes but whose heart was still beating.

If you add in the lack of medical expertise of the parents, it's possible one of them still felt a pulse but were detecting their own pulse.

In this scenario, the garotte, assault, etc. would be all staging in addition to the obvious staging of the ransom note. The chronic sex abuse seen on autopsy would be a red herring....could have been anyone.

 

[magpie]

I had also taken Klonopin for fibromyalgia and restless leg syndrom. I only took it for a month for it didn't relieve the pain as Voltaren so I switched back to that.
Some meds are used for different things than what it may have meant to be used for in the beginning.
Kjervis can you verify this if you are reading?
Amy

OT, but thanks for the info dottierainbow, will check into this Voltaren as I have never heard of it before today. Googling I shall go....

 

[rashomon]

I heard Wendy Murphy on a radio talk show recently. She had just read through the police questioning of the Ramseys and asked some interesting questions. I don't know this case as well as the rest of you, so I will throw this open. I love Wendy on TV and know she's a victim's advocate and former prosecutor, so I'm guessing she may know more than the average bear.

Wendy began by stating that the undigested pineapple is the most important evidence in this case.

She said since JB had undigested pineapple in her belly, we know it means she ate it within approximately two hours of death and that no pineapple was served at Fleet White's party. A bowl of pineapple was found on the dining table in the Ramsey home when police arrived on the 26th.

So her first point: We can assume the contents of the pineapple bowl were tested because there was undigested pineapple in the child's belly, even though the results of this test have never been made public.

Her next, more subtle point: Why would both John and Patsy Ramsey adamantly insist that they did NOT give JB pineapple? Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl, yet both claim if anyone gave the child pineapple, it had to be the intruder. John was zealous in proposing this excuse to explain how JB might have had an opportunity to eat the fruit after the got home that night around 9:30. In fact, he came up with it on the day AFTER he was first asked about the pineapple and he explained that he got the idea from his attorney.

Wendy continued with: Given that there is nothing sinister about giving a child pineapple, and given the obvious connection of that bowl, Patsy's fingerprints and the undigested pineapple in JB's belly, it's more than apparent that their firm resistance to admitting that they gave the pineapple to JB is that they KNEW it contained a sedative (something we would know was NOT true if it WERE untrue).

This sedative idea is not speculative because in the same general location of the police interrogation of John Ramsey, John was also asked about drugs in the home -- in particular, whether he was aware that Patsy was taking Klonopin.

John said no, but the interesting thing about Klonopin is that it can cause seizures in kids.

Wendy added that she doesn't believe there were no drugs in the JB's system -- it isn't even reasonable to believe there was ONLY one toxicology exam because some screening tests only look for certain drugs, and then more tox screens are done subsequently to look for additional specifically identified drugs. So it may very well be the case that drugs were found -- and I'm guessing they found evidence of Klonopin -- or at least some type of anti-depressant/anti-anxiety drug given the vast number of questions asked of both Rams during their 1998 police interviews.

Wendy continued with: How does asking them about the meds they were taking translate to the police found drugs in JB's body? The short answer is: Any reasonable lawyer would easily instruct their client to refuse to answer such a probling question and easily persuade the police not to ASK such an intrusive question -- unless the information was truly important and highly relevant to the investigation. Thus, the very fact that they were asked and answered all the questions about the drugs they were using in telling.

Wendy's last point: Why on earth would the Rams drug the child prior to the abuse and accidental strangulation?

She offered this obvious answer -- kiddie *advertiser censored* victims are often sedated to make them compliant -- and to be sure, sedation would be especially necessary if the *advertiser censored* was going to be S&M style that night, which the garrote and cords around her wrists suggest.

I can't watch the TV shows here in Germany: does this Wendy Murphy actually believe that JB was garroted to death by her parents, and that the garrote functioned in any way? So she does not recognize this as a staged scene?

 

[magpie]

If she stopped breathing due to a sedating drug, you can throw out the entire potty range scenario completely.

One of the aspects, I believe, from the Schiller book was that Patsy would not have wanted JBR to have lived in a brain damaged state, and the head blow might have been an intentional coup de grace to end the life of a child who had stopped breathing for many minutes but whose heart was still beating.

If you add in the lack of medical expertise of the parents, it's possible one of them still felt a pulse but were detecting their own pulse.

In this scenario, the garotte, assault, etc. would be all staging in addition to the obvious staging of the ransom note. The chronic sex abuse seen on autopsy would be a red herring....could have been anyone.

I suppose anything is possible, but I cannot fathom educated human beings giving their child any adult prescription medication that was not prescribed for their child. I KNOW .... not everybody is a good parent! Not as good as I am anyway. :innocent:

 

[Class-z]

buspar instead for anxiety/panic attacks.

I took Zoloft for depression and X(z)anax for panic attacks.

There are quite a few different combo's I"m sure.

Xanax would of knocked JBR for a loop, as I"m sure most of those drugs would

 

[Enola]

Thanks for the link Enola, but I'm not clear just from that snippet of the interview whether or not they are referring to Patsy taking the Klonopin before or after the death of JBR. I'm sure she was medicated heavily after JBR's death. It was obvious.

I'd agree with both points, it would be nice to have a clear idea of what medication was when.

Can I just add that I'm just taking the scenario and not claiming that what I suggest is a fact.

If she stopped breathing due to a sedating drug, you can throw out the entire potty range scenario completely.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I meant that the breathing and heartbeat would be surpressed even lower than they would be after a serious head injury so they were even less likely to find any sign of life.

 

[Class-z]

Wood is once again putting his foot in his mouth. The lawsuit settled, and I'd love to know what Wood thinks he managed to "win" for the Ramsey's. Steve paid them nothing, he can sell his book unaltered, he can state his opinion that Patsy did it in public whenever he wants to... what the hell does Wood think he "won"? I can tell you right now, if this case ever went to court it would have gotten nowhere. Free speech is a protected right, and as Wendy Murphy blasted Wood when he threatened to sue her, too, so recently she quite loudly reminded him of that fact...

I wondered about that myself. I watched Lin Wood on LKDead last night staing that there had been a suit against Thomas and that the Ramsey's had won... I hadn't kept up with every aspect of this case, so wasn't familar, but found it odd as I've seen Thomas very recently still stating his opinion and LKDead has rerun the interviews with the Ramsey's and Thomas where he basically accuses PR of the murder on the show. Matter of fact Larry King stated this to Wood last night...sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, what was the settlement and how can Wood go around spouting this like Thomas is not suppose to say anything??????????????????????

It amazes me what money can buy

 

[blonde1]

Reading all the info about Klonopin -- it said too much could make the user act drunk. What if it was Patsy who took too much, lost her senses, gave some to JB at pineapple time, and whatever the accident, either giving JB too much of the drug, or striking her, then wrote that ridiculous ransom cover note, having to start over a couple times because she was so out of it - she finally falls asleep, JR finishes the cover up - when the police show the next day, PR's in the same clothes from the night before, and she really is confused about what happened the night before...

 

[englishleigh]

Wendy may be onto something here, but I personally think she is baiting Lin Wood and John Ramsey to sue her, and then she is going to refuse to settle with them, and force John Ramsey into a court of law where tough questions are going to be asked of him. Go, Wendy!!!!!

 

[dottierainbow]

Oh my goodness Magpie! Voltaren is a miracle drug for me. It eases most of the pain for my Fibromyalgia. I've actually stopped taking it for a time thinking I didn't need it cause I felt so well. Well, you know the pain, it was right back to the Voltaren. My husband is on it too for Arthiritis.
Amy

OT, but thanks for the info dottierainbow, will check into this Voltaren as I have never heard of it before today. Googling I shall go....

 

[twinkiesmom]

I suppose anything is possible, but I cannot fathom educated human beings giving their child any adult prescription medication that was not prescribed for their child. I KNOW .... not everybody is a good parent! Not as good as I am anyway. >>

You must not be a CourtTV watcher...earlier this year we had the daycare center owner on trial for a drugging related death due to Benadryl...and this was a baby, not a school-aged child.

 

[dottierainbow]

I took it for only 1 month and it made me feel like I had hangovers, plus didn't take pain away. So I was done with it.
Amy

Reading all the info about Klonopin -- it said too much could make the user act drunk. What if it was Patsy who took too much, lost her senses, gave some to JB at pineapple time, and whatever the accident, either giving JB too much of the drug, or striking her, then wrote that ridiculous ransom cover note, having to start over a couple times because she was so out of it - she finally falls asleep, JR finishes the cover up - when the police show the next day, PR's in the same clothes from the night before, and she really is confused about what happened the night before...

 

[wenchie]

I admire Wendy, but I believe that the simplest explanation for the pineapple denial is probably the right one:

Neither of the Ramseys were going to admit that they'd been up some time during the night. They HAD to stick to the story that everyone had gone to sleep shortly after arriving home, and had STAYED asleep.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Very interesting. I always thought the small amount of pineapple in her system was odd. Klonopin is a drug prescribed for people that are Bipolar.

 

[magpie]

Very interesting. I always thought the small amount of pineapple in her system was odd. Klonopin is a drug prescribed for people that are Bipolar.

LOL! :bang: I am NOT bipolar so please don't lump us all into that one category.

 

[shoe_horn]

Does anyone think that JR is bipolar?

Think hard before you answer

 

[magpie]

I suppose anything is possible, but I cannot fathom educated human beings giving their child any adult prescription medication that was not prescribed for their child. I KNOW .... not everybody is a good parent! Not as good as I am anyway. >>

You must not be a CourtTV watcher...earlier this year we had the daycare center owner on trial for a drugging related death due to Benadryl...and this was a baby, not a school-aged child.

Nope, I don't watch CTV much anymore unless it has to do with a particular trial/case I am following here. The Peterson trial wore me down so much that I had to back away from crime for a good long while. I now spend much of my time playing video games, mostly strategy games that sharpen the mind.

 

[Enola]

LOL! :bang: I am NOT bipolar so please don't lump us all into that one category.

*Agrees* Someone bipolar might take it to aid sleep (just as Magpie does for REM) but not to treat the bipolar disorder itself.

 

[Gozgals]

Klonopin is used to treat Epilepsy and various seizure disorders too.

Just so everyone is aware this drug is used to treat various disease states.

GG