What about John Bittrolff

[Girlinterrupted]

Cocaine or erosion control.
One sounds more fun...

 

[PreciousDust]

Cocaine or erosion control.
One sounds more fun...

And so much more likely.

 

[DrQ]

Bittrolff could be the Torso killer, with how very close the bodies were found to his residence.....if its the case, did Bittrolff evolve into the GB4 killings, let me explain.

The first 3 women, Colleen, Rita & Sandra were all murdered within several months of each other, & from everything ive read, he killed them within hours of picking them up. I dont think much planning went into the first 3 killings, he knew he wanted to rape/kill, but it seems he was just starting out & had not thought out his plans too much.

Then in 2000 & 2003, Valerie Mack & Jessica Taylors torsos were found several miles from Bittrolffs residence, & could not be identified.....were we seeing a serial killer evolving?

Rita's body was discovered Nov 2nd, 1993. Sandra's body was in the woods for several days before being discovered Nov 21st, 1993. Colleen was reported missing Jan 6th, 1994 & her body was found on Jan 30th, 1994.

All 3 early victims were found within days of their murders, Colleen being the longest, 24 days. Was the killer frustrated with how fast his victims were being discovered & decided to start dismembering the bodies where it was difficult to identify?

A change of MO from the previous 3 victims.....& there are other victims as well before settling on GB4, but I wanted to focus on GB4. If its the same killer that was responsible for the first 3 victims, then turned to dismembering Valerie & Jessica & killing several others, he totally switched MO's again & decided to go online to find his victims. If it is the same killer, he definitely learned not to leave semen & any other evidence on the bodies with Valerie & Jessica.

From what ive read, Bittrolff had killed his victims within hours of picking them up, did he evolve into prolonging torture for several days with any of the GB4.....were the GB4 killed within hours of being picked up, or were they tortured for a day or so?

We know the sister of Mellissa was mentally tortured over the phone by LISK, & so were a few other friends of other GB4 victims.

The killer of GB4 seems so different from Bittrolff, at least from everything we have read/heard online....then again, serial killers can drastically change their methods.

I've always wondered how/why investigators "seem" to have ruled Bittrolff out. Question? Wasn't another killer operating around the same time as Bittrolff? IMO killers can/do change MO. Dismemberment used to be more for hiding victim ID. Now it might be part of the vicious act. I wish I could find out what evidence they got with GB4. Bugs, dirt, fiber, etc. I've never seen anything except the infamous belt. Anyone seen anything?

 

[SecretAgentMan]

I've always wondered how/why investigators "seem" to have ruled Bittrolff out. Question? Wasn't another killer operating around the same time as Bittrolff? IMO killers can/do change MO. Dismemberment used to be more for hiding victim ID. Now it might be part of the vicious act. I wish I could find out what evidence they got with GB4. Bugs, dirt, fiber, etc. I've never seen anything except the infamous belt. Anyone seen anything?

They havent ruled him out, they just dont have any evidence in the Torso killings or GB4 killings that point to him or anyone else imo......Valerie Mack & Jessica Taylors torsos were found within 1/2 a mile of each other. Also, both torsos were 3 to 4 miles from Bittrolffs home. Macks torso was found in 2000 & Jessicas in 2003.

In 2011 after finding the GB4, they also found Valerie & Jessicas heads & hands on Gilgo......this would have to be one huge coincidence!

Anything is possible, but I would be highly surprised if they arrested anyone else for the Torso/GB4 killings.

 

[3Patriots]

If Bittrolff is also the GB4 killer, it pretty much means there is no DNA evidence for that series of murders. Otherwise he would have been quickly linked to GB4. So, either there is no DNA evidence at all for LISK (sad but very possible) or Bittrolff is not involved in those murders.

AC was only 3 months from disappearance to discovery. She would be the most likely to have LISKs DNA.

 

[3Patriots]

I concur......if they had DNA & it led to Bittrolff, they would have come out with that information years ago. If they had an unknown suspects DNA, couldnt they have ran it thru genealogy sites to trace the killers family tree & come up with a name like in the Golden St killer case? Several other cases have also been solved the same way.

Imo, I dont think they have solid DNA evidence in the GB4 case, but detectives are using cell phone technology trying to pinpoint the killers locations by taking the signal of the burner phone & matching it up at the same locations of other signals that were next to each other. Im assuming they hope the killer had his personal cellphone on himself or in his car & turned on while he was using his burner phone from the same location as his personal cell.

Also, there is a possibility that Bittrolff wasnt involved in the GB4.....but talk about coincidence! Body parts from 2 serial killers in a close proximity of each others victims on Gilgo.

As @hawkshaw would tell you, if they could have tied this case around ANYONE's neck at any point, they would have. Sort of tells me how far off Bitrolff actually is from being LISK.

 

[hawkshaw]

EXACTLY!

 

[hawkshaw]

I was watching an old Dateline show about the murder of Sarah Goode. The defense lawyer pretty much got it. I believe his client was in fact is guilty. What he was questioning was the integrity of the investigation. He tops off his interview for the show by saying: BUT THATS THE WAY THEY OPERATE !

 

[wcasewatch]

They might not have the evidence to "tie it around his neck". That or what they do have is circumstantial.

I don't think they'll charge anyone with this case until they can find a slam dunk. Knowing something and proving something to a jury are two very different things.

Fact is, we don't know what they have right now.

 

[EpiVox444]

They might not have the evidence to "tie it around his neck". That or what they do have is circumstantial.

I don't think they'll charge anyone with this case until they can find a slam dunk. Knowing something and proving something to a jury are two very different things.

Fact is, we don't know what they have right now.

ick.

 

[dub]

I feel like Bitrolff makes the most sense by far as the suspect. The timeline and geography, to my mind, line up PERFECTLY for him to have been responsible for (in addition to his known victims):

GB4
Fire Island JD
Valerie Mack
Jessica Taylor
Peaches/baby doe
Probably the Asian male

I used to be positive that the Asian male was linked to the others, but if it was Bitrolff, it would depend on timing—if it turns out the male is ID’d and disappeared after Jessica, I’d think he was linked but if it was beforehand I’d lean towards not.

IF Bitrolff is LISK, here’s where I’m at on him being involved on other potential victims:

Cherries—maybe
Lattingtown JD—maybe
Tanya Rush—maybe
AC4—unlikely but maybe
Jacqueline Smith—doubtful
Shannan Gilbert—highly doubtful
Sugar Bear—no

I will say that if Bitrolff could be conclusively ruled out on ANY of the murders on the first list aside from the Asian male I would rethink this whole thing, but as far as I know he hasn’t been. With the available info at this moment I’m 90% sure it’s him.

 

[EpiVox444]

I feel like Bitrolff makes the most sense by far as the suspect. The timeline and geography, to my mind, line up PERFECTLY for him to have been responsible for (in addition to his known victims):

GB4
Fire Island JD
Valerie Mack
Jessica Taylor
Peaches/baby doe
Probably the Asian male

I used to be positive that the Asian male was linked to the others, but if it was Bitrolff, it would depend on timing—if it turns out the male is ID’d and disappeared after Jessica, I’d think he was linked but if it was beforehand I’d lean towards not.

IF Bitrolff is LISK, here’s where I’m at on him being involved on other potential victims:

Cherries—maybe
Lattingtown JD—maybe
Tanya Rush—maybe
AC4—unlikely but maybe
Jacqueline Smith—doubtful
Shannan Gilbert—highly doubtful
Sugar Bear—no

I will say that if Bitrolff could be conclusively ruled out on ANY of the murders on the first list aside from the Asian male I would rethink this whole thing, but as far as I know he hasn’t been. With the available info at this moment I’m 90% sure it’s him.

It definitely points to a lack of DNA evidence with Gilgo 4.. otherwise he would have been ruled out, or charged by now.. At least I think....

 

[wcasewatch]

If he had the time to wrap them in burlap, place them in one spot, and access their phones, etc, then it stands to reason that he went through the effort of wiping things down. These were prepared drops in a desolate area where he had a very good view of oncoming traffic. The police also believe that he spent time with the victims. None of it seems rushed. He basically had the time and space to drop them the way that he wanted to. He also knew from experience that the authorities never really cared about missing sex workers.

 

[SecretAgentMan]

I feel like Bitrolff makes the most sense by far as the suspect. The timeline and geography, to my mind, line up PERFECTLY for him to have been responsible for (in addition to his known victims):

GB4
Fire Island JD
Valerie Mack
Jessica Taylor
Peaches/baby doe
Probably the Asian male

I used to be positive that the Asian male was linked to the others, but if it was Bitrolff, it would depend on timing—if it turns out the male is ID’d and disappeared after Jessica, I’d think he was linked but if it was beforehand I’d lean towards not.

IF Bitrolff is LISK, here’s where I’m at on him being involved on other potential victims:

Cherries—maybe
Lattingtown JD—maybe
Tanya Rush—maybe
AC4—unlikely but maybe
Jacqueline Smith—doubtful
Shannan Gilbert—highly doubtful
Sugar Bear—no

I will say that if Bitrolff could be conclusively ruled out on ANY of the murders on the first list aside from the Asian male I would rethink this whole thing, but as far as I know he hasn’t been. With the available info at this moment I’m 90% sure it’s him.

I agree 100% with your 90% assessment!

 

[wcasewatch]

This guy was extremely familiar with the trails around Manorville before he even moved there. He knew the trails where Valerie Mack was found like the back of his hand. According to locals, it is not the kind of place that a stranger to the area stumbles across by accident. I also have reason to believe that he picked up a drinking problem in the years before his arrest (three separate sources seem to indicate this). The FBI believe that LISK targets women when he feels stressed. Perhaps the stress of the Gilgo find, combined with the fact that he could no longer target women when he felt stressed (he had to go dormant), led to him abusing alcohol as a substitute.

 

[wcasewatch]

Also, a neighbor indicated that he used to steal from construction sites for his carpentry company. This is backed up by a larceny charge (1987) and reports from others that he used to steal things when he was younger.

Sheets of burlap are used to cure concrete during hot weather. You get them in rolls.

The first of the Gilgo Four went missing during the hottest month of the year. We know that they were "wrapped" in burlap. There was no mention of sacks.

What if he simply stole the sheets of burlap from a construction site while he was looking for tools and other materials? The rolls may have been left out in the open, as they're not that costly.

 

[SecretAgentMan]

If he had the time to wrap them in burlap, place them in one spot, and access their phones, etc, then it stands to reason that he went through the effort of wiping things down. These were prepared drops in a desolate area where he had a very good view of oncoming traffic. The police also believe that he spent time with the victims. None of it seems rushed. He basically had the time and space to drop them the way that he wanted to. He also knew from experience that the authorities never really cared about missing sex worker

Yeah it seems LISK made mistakes with his first few victims, & then got better at not leaving evidence.

Bittrolff named as suspect​

On September 12, 2017, Suffolk County prosecutor Robert Biancavilla from the county district attorney's office announced that John Bittrolff, a carpenter from Manorville, Long Island, was a suspect in at least one of the LISK murders. Bittrolff had been convicted in May of that year of the murders of two sex workers in 1993 and 1994.




(Bittrolff has never taken responsibilty for any murders, & probably never will)....Serial killers like BTK & others always wanted the credit for their killings, but Bittrolff doesnt come across like that. Even the Golden State kIiller confessed after shown the evidence & the death penalty would be taken off the table.

Quite a few murder cases, detectives have strong person of interests, but without strong evidence such as DNA connecting the suspect to the crime, nothing can be done which frustrates detectives, but thats the way it works.

 

[wcasewatch]

Bittrolff won't confess. Not yet at least.

He has an active appeal, there doesn't seem to be any DNA evidence (that we know of), there's no death penalty in NY to scare him with, and he has a family.

His motivations for sparing his family from the media attention and "shame" of his crimes will obviously depend on a number of factors that we are not privy to (closeness, visits, how badly he wants everyone to know what he did, etc).

If his appeal gets tossed out and he decides that taking credit is more important than sparing his family, then who knows.

 

[Ozoner]

Bittrolff won't confess. Not yet at least.

He has an active appeal, there doesn't seem to be any DNA evidence (that we know of), there's no death penalty in NY to scare him with, and he has a family.

His motivations for sparing his family from the media attention and "shame" of his crimes will obviously depend on a number of factors that we are not privy to (closeness, visits, how badly he wants everyone to know what he did, etc).

If his appeal gets tossed out and he decides that taking credit is more important than sparing his family, then who knows.

BBM

Is that something new? I thought that New York had the death penalty fairly recently (even though I don't remember it actually being carried out in recent memory).

ETA: I looked it up, and I see that the courts declared it unconstitutional under the state's constitution in 2004. Bummer.

 

[wcasewatch]

BBM

Is that something new? I thought that New York had the death penalty fairly recently (even though I don't remember it actually being carried out in recent memory).

ETA: I looked it up, and I see that the courts declared it unconstitutional under the state's constitution in 2004. Bummer.

Sorry, what does BBM mean?