Because Ausgirl began this discussion in the Timeline thread , I'm starting a new thread in order to continue the discussion. Surely, lividity and rigor mortis are helpful in determining ToD, as I believe we'll all agree. However, I don't believe (and neither did Peretti) that these things alone are sufficient to determine ToD. That's why the ToD is so hard to determine in this case. Another complication, IMO, is the place of death - the scene of the crime. IMO, the murders didn't occur at the discovery site. I believe that there is information to support my opinion. First, in Bryn Ridge's testimony at the Misskelly trial , we find the following exchange: FOGLEMAN: Detective RIDGE in, when the, when Michael and Stevie and Chris were found what were the, their positions in the water? RIDGE: Okay Michael Moore was laying on his left side facing Memphis. (Since Michael's body was dislodged, his position could have been altered.) FOGLEMAN: Okay. RIDGE: Okay Steve Branch was laying face down, his face, chest and knees actually touching the ground on the bottom of the ditch. And Christopher Byers was in the same position, face down. Additionally, the coroner's report tells us: Body #1 (This is Michael Moore's body) <snipped> Body lying on side lividity in buttocks and back will blanch with pressure Rigor is set but can not tell to what degree due to limbs being tied body placed in sheet and transported Body #2 (This is Steven Branch's body) <snipped> Lividity in left buttocks and back will blanch with pressure Rigor is set but can not tell to what degree due to limbs being tied Body placed in sheet and transported Body #3 (This is Christopher Byers' body) <snipped> Lividity in buttocks and back will blanch with pressure Rigor is set but can not tell to what degree due to limbs being tied Body placed in sheet and transported All three bodies show signs of post mortem staining in face and chest.BBM This testimony and information is important because this site tells us the following: It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body. BBM IMO, what the above information indicates is that the bodies were moved within six hours of death. The lividity in the buttocks indicates that the boys died on their backs. However, Ridge's testimony indicates that they were found face down, hence the "post mortem staining in face and chest" mentioned in the coroner's report. I don't know if this information helps us determine ToD, but, IMO, it explains the lack of blood at the discovery site - they were killed elsewhere!