What Do You Want to Know?: List Questions Here

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by four_seasons, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Active Member

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    good day findinganatta!

    great question...

    - we need more information on how those water tanks operate.

    - from the little information I found.....they have a pump on the tank that pulls the water from the upper level of the tank.

    The tanks fill up by using city water ( pumped up to the top of the building>>>then inside the tanks) the city water contains debris/particles of dirt that settle at the bottom of the tank.( that's why it doesn't syphon from the bottom)

    - interesting questions....

    who contacted the maintenance person about water pressure?

    wasn't there always water pressure issues?.....was it worse this time?......Guest said they still showered and brushed thier teeth....

    why even check inside the tank?.....it's only supposed to have water?....how could you even tell if something was blocking the syphon pipe inside the tank?...
     


  2. Shlock Homes

    Shlock Homes Well-Known Member

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    Initial reports were that they declared the water safe to drink. Then after the public uproar, they said better make sure and told them not to consume it until further tests were done. That tells me one thing - her body was not decomposing to the point that parts of her were going down the drain. Which sounds odd considering she went missing 3 weeks earlier. The cold water may have preserved her body to a certain extent, but I'm not sure for 3 weeks. They still haven't given a time of death.
     
  3. RhiannonR

    RhiannonR New Member

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    I asked my brother the plumber about this. I asked him where he would look if there were complaints of bad pressure. He said he would start at the floor having the problem and head upward. He said he would check the tanks on the roof for sure. He has about 30 yrs in the business.
     
  4. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Active Member

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    Thanks RhiannonR...

    I posted a diagram of the tanks in the water tanks thread...

    If possible, could you ask you brother where the supply pipe for the Hotel or outflow pipe inside the tank is usually located?

    ( reply in the water tank thread )
     
  5. RhiannonR

    RhiannonR New Member

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    I'll try to ask him this wknd. He's never worked on hotels or such large structures of that age, but he may know.
     
  6. tapu

    tapu Pretty scary.

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    could the outflow pipe have been in the section cut out?
     
  7. MoonUnderfoot

    MoonUnderfoot Former Member

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    Great article!!!!

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/400990/drowning_investigations/

    Drowning Investigations
    By Haupt, Gary

    ".... Body Posture

    Corpses normally exhibit a relaxed, often prone, semifetal position when discovered by divers on the bottom of a body of water. They assume this posture because of the buoyant properties of water; the natural forces exerted by the skeletal muscles, even when relaxed; and the buoyancy of the lungs, which lie nearer the back than the front. In this position, the arms and legs usually are slightly bent at the elbows and knees. The head often tilts slightly forward, and the spine curves slightly. Authorities should see this configuration upon recovery when rigor mortis is developed.

    Any person who has died on land and remained in a terrestrial environment during the onset of rigor mortis will display a different posture. The head likely will be rotated to one side, a position almost never found in a drowning victim.17

    Hand and Arm Positions

    Investigators often will find a drowning victim’s arms bent with the hands turned toward the face when rigor mortis has developed. In those cases, it appears that individuals tried to cover their mouths to prevent drowning. Often, they clinch their hands in a fist. These arm and hand positions are much less pronounced or not present at all in victims who drowned while intoxicated because these individuals generally do not struggle, but simply disappear below the surface of the water.

    Sometimes, investigators may find objects in the hands of victims, such as grass from an embankment. If the drowning occurred in relatively shallow water, soil or gravel commonly found on the bottom may be clutched in the hands, indicating that the individual probably entered the water while conscious.18

    Injuries and Marks

    Immersion of a bod\y in water for several hours may cause leaching of blood from injuries, such as propeller cuts, lacerations, and stab wounds. Thus, an individual may have a number of what appear to be bloodless postmortem injuries, which actually are antemortem or agonal and the cause of the person’s demise. Of course, all recovered bodies need careful inspection for possible antemortem injuries. Because of the leaching effect, investigators may find detecting these wounds difficult.

    Severe antemortem or agonal injuries usually will leave definite signs, such as bruising and dispersing of blood into adjoining tissues, because the heart still was pumping blood when these wounds occurred. This appearance will diminish as putrefaction progresses.

    Legitimate postmortem injuries can occur to a body, especially around the head, face, knees, tops of the feet, and backs of the hands, although investigators should take care not to confuse these with defense wounds. A corpse that floats to the surface after partially decomposing is subject to currents that can repeatedly drag it across rocks and obstructions. In a very strong current, the body can travel far underwater, also causing these postmortem injuries.

    In addition, marine life can cause postmortem damage to a body. It is not unusual for the lips, ears, and nose to be at least partially eaten away.

    Boat propellers also can cause postmortem injuries, especially to a body that floats back to the surface at night and then gets hit by a motorboat before discovery. Investigators must differentiate postmortem propeller cuts from antemortem or agonal ones; in most instances, corpses refloat facedown, so those that occur after death nearly always will be to the back and shoulders, back of the head, or buttocks.

    Medical examiners can help draw conclusions about the actual nature of wounds detected. But, investigators must provide all pertinent details. "
     
  8. RhiannonR

    RhiannonR New Member

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    So did a group go downtown to the Cecil? Seems so quiet here, not sure if I missed anything or a new thread somewhere. Maybe everyone is just burned out and no new info. has been released...
     
  9. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Active Member

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    I'm still checking in Daily, and still trying to find more information on how those water tanks might work.
     
  10. RhiannonR

    RhiannonR New Member

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    Maybe find a manufacturer and call them? Or find someone who installs them?
     
  11. Tristan

    Tristan New Member

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    I am new to this case, and I have a few questions:

    How deep is the water tank?

    Who was the last person to see Elisa?

    What floor was she staying on?

    Was she working? If not, how did she pay for the hotel/food etc?

    How heavy is the cover of the water tank? Would it take a great deal of
    strength to remove it?


    If these questions are answered somewhere, please let me know.
    I am very interested.

    Thank you.
     
  12. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Active Member

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    again, from the limited knowlege I have tried to remember.....
     
  13. Conductor71

    Conductor71 New Member

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    How deep is the water tank? 8-10' It was only 3/4 full according to multiple news sources.

    Who was the last person to see Elisa? Employee in hotel lobby late night of Jan 31st; nothing seemed out of the norm.

    source KTLA article

    Was she working? If not, how did she pay for the hotel/food etc?

    Looking at what seems to have been her Tumblr account she work retail (clothing and shoes) on and off. Assuming her parents paid for her transportation as they paid for an earlier trip to Toronto. Maybe credit card for the rest?
     
  14. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    Locks on the doors to rooms... I think, based on videos, that the Cecil Hotel and Stay on Main locks are totally different. The hotel has some latch type locks to fasten on the inside. Stay does not. Thus, making it harder for a scared girl to lock herself in her room.

    ETA
    The hatch from Elisa's tank. Must it be lifted off to be open? (as in not a hinged lid) I don't care about the other tanks.
     
  15. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    I have a question: what further investigation can we do into this case from our computers? We have speculated endlessly about what actually occurred, but have no indication that anything further will be revealed about the details of this case. To me, there are only 2 options for those of us interested in continuing the investigation: 1.) Go out to LA and try to interview employees, residents, and perhaps the Barnes and Noble clerk. On the same note, attempt to discuss case with Elisa's family members (probably not at all appropriate unless we were in the capacity of a journalist for a magazine/tv documentary.) 2.) Second option - pursue police report. From what I've gathered, the police report should be available to the public, and it is simply a matter of pestering the PD and possibly paying a fee for it.

    Anyone up for pursuing these objectives?
     
  16. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    We can't contact her family, but eventually they might contact us (us meaning someone independently pursuing the case, not necessarily any particular person). I wrote on my cousin's thread. Unlike my cousin (Kathy Jones), Elisa still has many living family members.

    Unfortunately, they were in Vancouver and Elisa was in L.A. So, they only have limited info about her time in the days preceeding her death. They probably know more than us though. But, I know more than is on my cousin's thread yet I put all of the useful information I know. Some of the things I know are ... oh, just sad, pitiful things that follow a murder. I guess I'm saying is IDK if her family has much information. This may be one of the reasons they aren't talking much besides grief and a desire for privacy.
     
  17. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    The questions I would have for her family members would whether she had "psychotic break" episodes in the past, as in was there any indication at all that she could freak out and do this to herself? Secondly, I'd like to know if they were aware of anyone she had been planning to meet there or if there was any evidence on her computer/phone that wasn't released to the public. The fact that her father reacted so negatively to the "accidental death" conclusion, I believe that there might be more to the story than we know. Perhaps it was just a father having difficulty believing his daughter suffered from mental illness (can happen in Chinese families) or it could be deeper in that he knew details that have not been released to the public. I believe he made a trip to LA recently to try and figure some things out.
     
  18. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

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    Could you please provide a link for that?
     
  19. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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  20. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

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    Respectfully, that link didn't say that he had visited LA. That story has some problems, too. Her father denies that she was bipolar, but that does not seem to be in question.
     

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