What Do You Want to Know?: List Questions Here

[four_seasons]

guys,

i'm in a chinese group and there's someone heading over to Cecil in the next few days. Maybe we can pass a few questions for them and see if they can do some investigation there.

I'm not familiar with the person we are simply in the same group. If anyone has anything really specific, I can pass along and hope they can find the answer.

 

[Borris]

guys,

i'm in a chinese group and there's someone heading over to Cecil in the next few days. Maybe we can pass a few questions for them and see if they can do some investigation there.

I'm not familiar with the person we are simply in the same group. If anyone has anything really specific, I can pass along and hope they can find the answer.

I think it would be best to PM requests, or else to have the mods set up a sticky so that we can organize a list.

 

[four_seasons]

I think it would be best to PM requests, or else to have the mods set up a sticky so that we can organize a list.

Maybe people can brainstorm some questions and i can send it to the group and hope they can find out the answer. there's no guarantee as they are not LE and they are just civilians like the rest of us.

 

[kingsway]

Maybe people can brainstorm some questions and i can send it to the group and hope they can find out the answer. there's no guarantee as they are not LE and they are just civilians like the rest of us.

Just some ideas:

- Opening the rooftop door with the alarm, to confirm that it's locked right now. (some people suggest that the previous group didn't try hard enough)
- Stay overnight, and explore the hotel and roof at night time.
- Take pictures of the maintenance room on the roof.
- Try carrying a large suitcase or each other up the fire escape and water tank
- Examine the size of the pipe to assess how easily a sandal or clothes could have been sucked inside.
- Try to find out where the rooftop access hatches lead to.
- Find out which room Elisa stayed in.
- Take a video from the elevator to the rooftop door, and also to the 15th floor fire escape.
- Examine the 14th floor fire escape as well.
- Knock on the doors of the 14th and 15th floors and interview the occupants. Record them on camera, if legal?
- Look for long strands of black hair? Any location where her clothes might be disposed of? Take pictures of the lounge and common areas?

Hope they dig deeper, as we have quite a bit of information already on the infrastructure of the hotel and roof.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Just some ideas:

- Opening the rooftop door with the alarm, to confirm that it's locked right now. (some people suggest that the previous group didn't try hard enough)
- Stay overnight, and explore the hotel and roof at night time.
- Take pictures of the maintenance room on the roof.
- Try carrying a large suitcase or each other up the fire escape and water tank
- Examine the size of the pipe to assess how easily a sandal or clothes could have been sucked inside.
- Try to find out where the rooftop access hatches lead to.
- Find out which room Elisa stayed in.
- Take a video from the elevator to the rooftop door, and also to the 15th floor fire escape.
- Examine the 14th floor fire escape as well.
- Knock on the doors of the 14th and 15th floors and interview the occupants. Record them on camera, if legal?
- Look for long strands of black hair? Any location where her clothes might be disposed of? Take pictures of the lounge and common areas?

Hope they dig deeper, as we have quite a bit of information already on the infrastructure of the hotel and roof.

- Locating every survelliance camera ( look around the lobby / entry/exit doors) would be very helpful.

Originally Posted by noodled1
The Chinese investigators said the alarm did not sound when they finally opened the door to go up and take pics.

I remember somebody saying that. Not very surprising in a hotel like that. Now I can't remember who said it. I was thinking it was those Chinese guys but now I am thinking it was somebody who came here and posted a few times who said that he stayed there the week after she was missing. Does that sound familiar?

made a video in the "roof access" thread showing how those doors work.

 

[RhiannonR]

There's also an alley off 7th that goes behind the bldg. This is where Ramirez would dump his bloody clothes before going into the hotel after a murder.

 

[four_seasons]

sorry guys...they went already and i'm waiting to see if they will start a thread...

in the mean time...i found info on Elisa's funeral on Saturday. the page has since been taken down but google cache did indicate the funeral.

 

[bessie]

That's okay, four_seasons. A thread to list unanswered questions about the hotel and the circumstances that existed at the time of Elisa's death is still an excellent idea.

 

[four_seasons]

That's okay, four_seasons. A thread to list unanswered questions about the hotel and the circumstances that existed at the time of Elisa's death is still an excellent idea.

is there a general thread? just wanted to post a link to what i think is the funeral home where EL's funeral will be on Saturday.

 

[bessie]

is there a general thread? just wanted to post a link to what i think is the funeral home where EL's funeral will be on Saturday.

If the page has been taken down, and the info isn't publicized elsewhere, we should assume the family has requested privacy and respect their wishes. Besides, you won't be able to link to the source. But thank you for asking before you posted. :bowdown:

 

[Myst]

I'd like to know if there are inner locks inside the shower/toilet rooms that are in the hallways?

In some reviews for the Cecil, out on the net, some have mentioned that there were no locks inside. Hoping that isn't part of what Elisa experienced.

 

[kingsway]

Things I'd like to know:

-time of the video
-what time she was last seen
-what floor she lived on, and any experience anyone had with her at the hotel
-location of her clothes
-what she was doing on the 14th floor
-occupants of the 14th/15th floor
-any history of psychosis, sleepwalking, etc...
-how difficult is it to open a lid, does it require considerable strength?... afaik, no team that went to the rooftop ever tried opening one of the other lids. Maybe there are other dead bodies hwow:

 

[findinganatta]

One thing I don't understand is why the water pressure dropped significantly in the day or couple of days before the tanks were searched and EL's body was found. The body had been in there for a good while, so something must have changed to create such a change.

I know the Cecil has water pressure problems in general, and that there probably had been some degree of pressure problems previous to the last day or so before she was found. But I can only think of two reasons that this would have happened. Either the decomposition of her body reached a stage at which all or part(s) of it began to cover or clog the exit pipes, or articles of her clothing indeed did end up getting sucked into and clogging the pipes.

Assuming the pressure is back to normal currently, we can assume her clothes were not the cause (that idea wouldn't make much sense anyway). And apparently the body was found floating in the water with her head pointing down with feet up (which, according to the FBI website, is the natural way that bodies of drowning victims become oriented, by the way--a clue that hasn't been discussed much on these forums to my knowledge). So it makes me wonder if parts of her body or skin had begun to clog the pipes. The same FBI site discusses about how, for instance, the skin of hands can come off like gloves.

Regardless, I've never heard much discussion of why the water pressure would have been affected, and why it would have become so dramatically low toward the end. Just wondering if anyone has heard, knows anything, or has any educated guesses about that?

 

[kingsway]

One thing I don't understand is why the water pressure dropped significantly in the day or couple of days before the tanks were searched and EL's body was found. The body had been in there for a good while, so something must have changed to create such a change.

I know the Cecil has water pressure problems in general, and that there probably had been some degree of pressure problems previous to the last day or so before she was found. But I can only think of two reasons that this would have happened. Either the decomposition of her body reached a stage at which all or part(s) of it began to cover or clog the exit pipes, or articles of her clothing indeed did end up getting sucked into and clogging the pipes.

Assuming the pressure is back to normal currently, we can assume her clothes were not the cause (that idea wouldn't make much sense anyway). And apparently the body was found floating in the water with her head pointing down with feet up (which, according to the FBI website, is the natural way that bodies of drowning victims become oriented, by the way--a clue that hasn't been discussed much on these forums to my knowledge). So it makes me wonder if parts of her body or skin had begun to clog the pipes. The same FBI site discusses about how, for instance, the skin of hands can come off like gloves.

Regardless, I've never heard much discussion of why the water pressure would have been affected, and why it would have become so dramatically low toward the end. Just wondering if anyone has heard, knows anything, or has any educated guesses about that?

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. What kind of turbulence is there in a water tank, and how strong is the suction from the pipe? Is it enough to make a body toss and turn? Maybe the body got sucked to the pipe multiple times causing physical damage - which may have prevented the coroner from noticing any prior trauma?

 

[RhiannonR]

So I'm assuming we check back on this thread for updates about their trip and potential video?

 

[noodled1]

So I'm assuming we check back on this thread for updates about their trip and potential video?

I guess so?

 

[findinganatta]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. What kind of turbulence is there in a water tank, and how strong is the suction from the pipe? Is it enough to make a body toss and turn? Maybe the body got sucked to the pipe multiple times causing physical damage - which may have prevented the coroner from noticing any prior trauma?

I've thought about that too. It's obviously hard to know, but it seems likely that a floating adult body would resist being tossed around. As for the sucking motion of the pipe(s), that is anyone's guess... unless we have someone who has dealt with cisterns before.



I am still interested in the fact that drowning victims (as opposed to those who died previous to being put into water) tend to float with their heads down and feet up, as EL was reportedly found. That might be the biggest clue for me personally about the manner of death. That information isn't sensational or even meaningful to the average person, so I can't imagine the media would have reported it unless it came from the authorities. And the FBI website is a credible source for such information. Their write up on water deaths is very interesting.

If she did drown, that would mean someone caused it or she did it on her own. If it was a foul-play, I doubt it involved anyone forcing her under the water... according to the FBI site, it is very difficult to hold an adult underwater due to the victim's survival-instinct reaction, which is why there are very few drowning murders. And it would be even more difficult in this case due to the size of the hatch and a water surface that probably was a few feet below.

The only other foul-play drowning possibility I can imagine is that someone put her in the cistern and waited for her to tire out and drown. But this would be a stupidly bold thing to do considering that it would take hour or days, and she would surely be making as much noise as possible.

So basically, I feel like drowning by foul play is highly unlikely (just as it is in general). So if you accept that it's likely she died by drowning, as I tentatively am due to non-sensational Lam case info and forensic realities, then it really only leaves one likelihood with who was responsible for EL's death

And of course...
:twocents: :moo:

 

[kingsway]

I've thought about that too. It's obviously hard to know, but it seems likely that a floating adult body would resist being tossed around. As for the sucking motion of the pipe(s), that is anyone's guess... unless we have someone who has dealt with cisterns before.

But if we conclude that the body is what caused the low water pressure, wouldn't that mean the body was blocking the pipe? -- meaning she wasn't floating when they found her. Unless it was her clothes - or something else.

 

[findinganatta]

But if we conclude that the body is what caused the low water pressure, wouldn't that mean the body was blocking the pipe? -- meaning she wasn't floating when they found her. Unless it was her clothes - or something else.

That's all I can think of, but the reports said she was found "floating at the surface," or at least her feets/legs were at the surface. But it's quite possible that during certain times when more water was being pulled from the cistern that the suction was higher, pulling the body toward it for a while before letting it go to float again.

I just read some things about the autopsy talking about how twisted her legs and hands apparently were. Very creepy. Might be a result of the currents, as well as the fact (according to the FBI site) that the intense struggle associated with drowning can be evident in the position of body parts.

 

[Shlock Homes]

I just read some things about the autopsy talking about how twisted her legs and hands apparently were. Very creepy. Might be a result of the currents, as well as the fact (according to the FBI site) that the intense struggle associated with drowning can be evident in the position of body parts.

Do you have a link for that? The reason why I ask is that there was an online chinese article that a few of us had used as a reference a number of threads back. The article was quoting an acquaintance of Elisa's uncle and said not only was she naked, her limbs were broken. If that's the case, then it would explain the contorted condition of her body.

For the chinese folks heading to the Cecil: Can you measure the height of the parts of the elevator? I want to get an idea of how high things like the panel was. Reason? There have been some people who aren't sure the person in the elevator was Elisa, since it doesn't look like her pictures. Apparently that was one reason why the police released the video, she looked different recently. I'd like to use those measurements to estimate her height. I'd have to guess at her height from other pictures, which I'm sure is possible. I mean, if the woman in the elevator was 5' 10" and she's actually 4' 11" then there could be a case to be made.