what does the BLOOD tell us

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    yep and wasn't this a bit stupid on their part?(handing over a pack of 6,cause we don't know if that pack was THE pack)
    they easily could have said from the beginning,we had no such panties in our home(size 12),the intruder brought a pair and probably took the size 6 ones(the ones Jb was wearing that night) as a souvenir.
     


  2. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    DeeDee249,
    Of course we cannot know with certainty, but you can know as measured by probability, and I reckon there is a missing pair of Wedesday featured , size-6, Bloomingdales from JonBenet's drawer.

    Many other items have been prefixed with their brand name e.g. Barbie Nightgown, Barbie Doll, or Gap Top etc. Yet when it comes to the brand name or Days Of The Week of the underwear found in JonBenet's drawer, nothing is released, how so?


    So if Patsy redressed JonBenet why would she bother removing the remaining size-12's?


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  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    madeleine,
    Maybe this is where the rush to staging let them down, why they had to bother with a Wednesday pair, who knows, but JonBenet was wiped down and redressed.

    Where were the size-12's located. The National Enquirer suggested they were in Paty's bedroom drawer, just in case Jonbenet wet the bed at night.

    DA Kane stated: "15 pairs of underwear taken from JBR's underwear drawer in the bathroom, "every one of those was either a size four or a size six"

    Now if we add the pair lying inside JonBenet's jeans that is 16 pairs accounted for. Sounds to me as if there might have been two pairs of size-6 Wedesday featured underwear available to redress JonBenet? Which makes the decision to use the size-12's all that more bizarre.


    I wonder why they had to find the size-12's at all, maybe there is something that has been redacted, that they know about?


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  4. Squishified

    Squishified Well-Known Member

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    I have never been this confused over underwear in my life! :dunno:
     
  5. KarenUK

    KarenUK Well-Known Member

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    I've often wondered this point myself, since it was one of the things an IDI friend of mine used to bang on about - where did the underwear come from, it wasnt from the house?
    Was there any benefit to them from coming forward with the rest of the package?
     
  6. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    But we KNOW it was from the house. Patsy ADMITTED buying the panty set as a gift for her niece. When asked by LE if she knew where the too-big panties came from, Patsy said she bought them.
    So you can tell your IDI friend to read Patsy's interviews with police and your friend can see for his/herself that Patsy admits to buying the underwear.
     
  7. KarenUK

    KarenUK Well-Known Member

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    I didnt think she had spoken about the underwear until the interview in 2000? I maybe miss-remembering here but I am sure I watched a very early documentary shown on British terrestrial tv which stated that the underwear pointed towards IDI as it didnt come from within the house. I might be completely wrong on this though as I can't find the documentary on youtube, or even remember which channel it was on.
     
  8. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    KarenUK,
    I doubt the size-12's are a good IDI alibi. Just ask why would an intruder stay around to redress JonBenet in size-12 underwear, that may have been lying in an upstairs drawer completely forgotten about by Patsy?

    A totally naked and visibly sexually assaulted JonBenet left lying in the wine-cellar is functionally no different from a fully clothed JonBenet with no visible signs of sexual assault!

    The intruder is simply required to deposit JonBenet's body and leave quietly via the front door.

    DeeDee249 is correct. Patsy told her interviewer that she purchased the size-12's during a New York trip. Her interviewer then told her we have to ask this so that we can eliminate JonBenet's killer having brought them into the house!

    In that interview BPD more or less told the Ramsey's we reckon you did it, in addition to accusing Patsy of lying through her teeth. But BPD are obviously holding stuff back, e.g. are there any Wednesday underwear in JonBenet's drawer, are there any more dolls, underwear or clothing to found in the wine-cellar, was anything left insiide JonBenet?

    I might as well add in Fleet White here since he saw inside that wine-cellar more than anyone else, and although at the time, he might not have realized the significance of any items he observed, later I reckon he did. e.g. stuff found around JonBenet at 1PM may not have been there at 7AM.


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  9. KarenUK

    KarenUK Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree..... although as far as IDI theories go I guess I've heard worse ;)
     
  10. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    We all have.
     
  11. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Well-Known Member

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    If Patsy did redress JonBenet, she would've been better off using underwear that didn't have a day of the week on them that were in her (JonBenet's) size.
     
  12. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    UNLESS- the panties she had on originally also said "Wednesday". There is some uncertainty as to whether Patsy bought JB her own set of those Bloomies panties in her own size. Patsy claims not to remember. Believe me, she remembers. So would you. It was only a few weeks before her death.

    The other reason is that all the panties in JB's own size were in her bathroom or room, which would have necessitated going upstairs to her room to get them- whereas the size 12 panties were right there in the basement, wrapped up with other things to be mailed to Patsy's niece when they returned from the trip.
     
  13. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    DeeDee249,
    It is curious Patsy developed amnesia over the underwear. Since you might expect her to have purchased JonBenet a set of Bloomingdales, particularly since she purchased a set for Jenny?

    Would the colors and design for the size-12's be the same for the size-6's? If so, then maybe whomever redressed JonBenet was attempting to match to the brand and design?

    Were they, do you have a source for this?



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  14. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    Bloomies made these panty sets for girls in a variety of patterns and colors over the years, but usually the patterns and colors were the same for all the size groups. Sizes for girls' panties in the US usually are 2,4,6,8,10,12,14. By he time a girl outgrows size 14 (chidrens') she would go into a ladies small. Some garment manufacturers use combined sizes such as 2-4, 6-8, etc.

    You know very well there is no official account of the panties having been in one of the boxes, so why persist in asking?
    Patsy SAID some of the boxes were partially unwrapped because she had "forgotten what was in them and took a peek". I believe she needed to "take a peek" to find the panties. There were partially unwrapped boxes in the WC. Patsy also said she had intended to place the panty set "in a box with OTHER THINGS" meant for Jenny and mail them after her return from vacation.
    TO ME, it is no great leap to believe the panties had indeed been wrapped up with other things ready to be sent, and so Patsy knew they were right there in the basement when needed.
    At the bottom of every one of my posts are the words "this is my OPINION only...". If you have signatures disabled you may not see it, but MY OPINION means just that.
    I have no inside info or proof of anything that is not also available to everyone else. My conversation about the panties and where they may have been taken from is permanently "disabled".
     
  15. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    DeeDee249,
    That is interesting. So if Patsy purchased a set of size-6 Bloomingdales for JonBenet, those minus a missing Wednesday pair, should still have been in her underwear drawer?

    I wonder why this information has never been disclosed, e.g. the branding, and the days of the week? And whether there is a missing pair, which we assume there is, hence the size-12's.

    So Steve Thomas et-al, will know if there is a missing pair of Bloomingdales size-6 underwear, particularly if they are White with a Wednesday day of the week feature.

    So Patsy invoked amnesia about purchasing Bloomingdales for JonBenet, e.g. she obviously did not want to talk about the underwear subject. Notice in her interview neither the police or Patsy referenced whether there were any missing underwear. This might be why she was asked did you buy Bloomingdales for JonBenet, since a clear yes could demonstrate that there is definitively a misssing size-6 pair, otherwise the contents of the underwear drawer cannot be established.


    Maybe, Patsy is always forgetting, its so convenient, it may have been JR who opened the gifts, and Patsy is just inventing an explanation?

    In her interview Patsy stated she intended to send the size-12's to Jenny, presumably by mail? But that she never got around to it, so placed them in JonBenet's drawer. It could be thats an untruth to cover up them ever being boxed as a gift left lying in the wine-cellar?

    So Jenny's gift-box should be missing, leaving that in the wine-cellar might have led to probing questions?

    I do not think those partially opened gifts were originally in the wine-cellar, they were probably located elsewhere in the basement, but dumped along with JonBenet, gown and doll etc, into the wine-cellar, out of sight!

    I wonder what Jenny ever made of her Christmas gift, that Patsy never quite managed to mail it to her, or that an extremely rich relative considers a pack of Bloomingdale underwear a suitable Christmas gift?


    So at one point BPD must have thought, we have a missing pair of size-6 Bloomingdales and we have 5 pairs of size-12 Bloomingdales missing.

    Then the R's return the remaining size-12 Bloomingdales, precisely why I am not certain about, since they could just blame the intruder for removing the underwear, or was that stretching credulity too far?


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  16. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    Police told Patsy that they found NO size 12 panties anywhere in the house. They told Patsy that all the panties they found were size 4 or 6. Patsy replied that some of those in the drawer were too small for her. Police never said, as far as I know whether any of the panties they DID find were Bloomies panties. If they were , and if the Wednesday pair was missing, that would be a big clue, IMO. That it had not been mentioned did not mean they did not find any (Bloomies in size 6).
    Yes, ST would know.
    Patsy was vague about the panties, and it comes across, even to observers like us, that her vagueness is actually evasiveness. She knew very well whether she bought 1 or 2 sets.
    I agree that the opened gifts may not have been originally in the WC. It was never established whether any of the boxes had Jenny's name, or even if police looked for it. Patsy admitted she did plan to put the panties in with other things in a box to be sent to Jenny. I assume she DID have gifts to send her. Considering the tragic death of JB, neither Jenny nor her family would be concerned that Jenny never received her gifts from Aunt Patsy.
    As a mom of girls myself, I have to say that women (moms, aunts, etc) DO buy novelty panties as gifts for little girls. Jenny would not have thought it odd to receive such a gift, especially as it was only a PART of her gift. To me, a gift like the panty set would be a "stocking stuffer"- a small gift not intended to be the ONLY gift, and rich relatives would have had other things to send her.
    We do not know at this point that the BPD made the connection between the missing size 12s and the (presumably) missing size 6s because we do not know that they ever found any Bloomies size 6s.
    I am not certain in my own mind that they did, or I feel they would have discussed it at the interview with Patsy when they brought up the too-big size 12s. In that discussion, Patsy admits that she was the one who bought the size 12s that were found on JB.
     
  17. txsvicki

    txsvicki Active Member

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    I thought Patsy said that she had bought two packages of size 12 panties and that JonBenet wanted to keep one package?
     
  18. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    txsvicki,
    So where is the other package of size-12's?


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  19. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    DeeDee249,
    Of course she knew. Patsy attempted to conflate the purchase of the size-12's and any size-6 Bloomingdales, by deliberately not giving answers that established fact.

    Patsy did not want to talk about underwear, and when she did amnesia was induced, she was particularly amnesic on the subject of the Bloomingdales size-6 underwear, not the size-12 underwear, which she happily admitted to purchasing.

    I reckon there is a pair of missing size-6 Bloomingdales, for which the size-12's, were substituted, and only the R's can confirm the prior existence of the Bloomingdales size-6, hence their stories and amnesia.

    Here I am referring to the Bloomingdales that Patsy would have purchased for JonBenet in New York. I am not certain of the specific size. In theory you should have five pairs of Bloomingdales that match the five pairs from the returned size-12's, except on size?

    Sure, but if the R's are going to remove the size-12's, why not the gift-box too?

    When I refer to size-6 it's to the alleged Bloomingdales purchase. Well possibly not right away, but eventually the idea of a substitution must have arisen, else why bother questioning Patsy on the subject. It was Patsy who they hoped would confirm that there was a missing pair of size-6 underwear, by stating she purchased a set for JonBenet. In this she did not comply, becoming amnesic on the size-6 topic. If Patsy had said, yes I purchased a set of size-6 Bloomingdales for JonBenet, then maybe one of the follow up questions might have been: There is a missing pair of Wednesday, size-6 Bloomingdales, did JonBenet damage these or lose them etc?

    I reckon they knew, but had no confirming evidence. Patsy admits purchasing the size-12's, these have to exist, for JonBenet to be wearing a pair, but the size-6 Bloomingdales, a pair of these may have gone missing for many reasons, one of which is that they contained forensic evidence, BPD would be aware of this surely?

    So Patsy invents this story about JonBenet being given the size-12's, hence this is why she is wearing a pair. Yet as you point out none were found in her drawer, all of this smacks of desperation on Patsy's behalf.

    Patsy is so incoherent in her story about the size-12's that I just do not buy her story at all. I reckon she is covering for someone else, someone that rearranged the crime-scene, thus denying Patsy knowledge that JonBenet was wearing those size-12's, she only finding out, after the autopsy, courtesy of the NI, or RST.

    I'll bet the size-12's were stored somewhere upstairs, after all, on returning from New York, Patsy would have given JonBenet her size-6 set, and presumably placed the size-12's into a drawer, possibly her own drawer, considering the package size was so small. She was never going to run downstairs and place the size-12's into some gift-wrapping paper. There was no need to hide this gift, after all JonBenet presumably all ready knew about it?

    So as a preliminary theory I'm assuming someone other than Patsy redressed JonBenet in the size-12's because, other than size, they were a direct substitution for the size-6 pair.
     
  20. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

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    If Patsy had admitted to purchasing two packages of the bloomies sizes 6 and 12, why would Jonbenet have wanted to keep the package meant for jenny? I mean she would have had her own, Right? Sounds to me like Patsy couldnt admit that she had bought the 6s else her story wouldnt make sense (not that her story makes sense anyway.

    If I remember right, Patsy said Jonbenet picked those out for Jenny. So, if Jonbenet liked them enough to pick them and ultimately wanted them, wouldnt she have gotten a package to?

    I also have this thought rolling around in my head>>> If LE was able to find that Patsy bought BR Hi-Tech boots while on a trip to Atlanta, they may also know about the purchase of the Bloomies.....

    Maybe a lying mother equaled a guilty mother to LE and that folks, makes sense too me....
     

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