What The Hell Is Going On Here??????????

[Ames]

and who would cover for who? it's been almost 11 yrs.TR is all for wanting to pin it on an elusive 'intruder'.where is he/she?

Its hard to pin something on someone that doesn't exist!

 

[JMO8778]

Its hard to pin something on someone that doesn't exist!

yes and if it was a photographer,he she should be easy to track,and we haven't heard of any search for anyone who took this pic.as was done with the bear,there would have been a headline: do you know who took this picture of JB?

 

[Solace]

For your information, I would be very surprised if the Whites were involved in the murder, I was simply remarking on what he did on that particular day.

I would assume [and hope] that he is ashamed of his behaviour. No matter what his problem was on that day, a little girl had just been buried.

As for your remarks about the "Ramsey lies" - name ONE which has been proven.

As far as I am concerned this is proven. Patsy tells one of the detectives that she saw the heart on JB's hand THAT morning. She reiterates it three times at the end of the questioning, she says "that was a real good little heart, really well drawn". (that is about as close to what she said as I can remember without having the book here (the NE depositions). THE NEXT day she says she want to clear something up and says she never saw the heart and that she must have read it in the autopsy report - but John is down the hall at the point saying "we don't read autopsy reports".

Anyway, Callan, the fact that Patsy said "that was a really good little heart, well drawn" leads me to believe that she saw it. She changed her mind the next day because SHE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE SEEN JON BENET THAT MORNING, because Jon Benet was dead.

Now you may feel this is not proving it, but I feel it is. The words are coming from Patsy's own mouth and I choose to believe her. She saw the heart that morning, which means to me she was with Jon Benet in the very early hours of December 26th.

:crazy: :crazy:

 

[Ames]

yes and if it was a photographer,he she should be easy to track,and we haven't heard of any search for anyone who took this pic.as was done with the bear,there would have been a headline: do you know who took this picture of JB?

And I personally don't think that a photo that JB had taken like a year or so before she was killed...had anything to do with her murder. I mean, so what that she was posed with a rope! It was the theme of her photo..the country cowgirl look. This is just another thing that the IDI's have dug up, to make it look like an intruder/photographer/molester/member of a small foreign faction/kidnapper...did it.

 

[JMO8778]

And I personally don't think that a photo that JB had taken like a year or so before she was killed...had anything to do with her murder. I mean, so what that she was posed with a rope!

I agree,it's just the theme of the photo.props are used all the time,no mystery there.

 

[Ames]

I agree,it's just the theme of the photo.props are used all the time,no mystery there.

Nope! No mystery at all. The IDI's try to make something out of nothing...anything to point away from the Rams.

 

[Ames]

As far as I am concerned this is proven. Patsy tells one of the detectives that she saw the heart on JB's hand THAT morning. She reiterates it three times at the end of the questioning, she says "that was a real good little heart, really well drawn". (that is about as close to what she said as I can remember without having the book here (the NE depositions). THE NEXT day she says she want to clear something up and says she never saw the heart and that she must have read it in the autopsy report - but John is down the hall at the point saying "we don't read autopsy reports".

Anyway, Callan, the fact that Patsy said "that was a really good little heart, well drawn" leads me to believe that she saw it. She changed her mind the next day because SHE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE SEEN JON BENET THAT MORNING, because Jon Benet was dead.

Now you may feel this is not proving it, but I feel it is. The words are coming from Patsy's own mouth and I choose to believe her. She saw the heart that morning, which means to me she was with Jon Benet in the very early hours of December 26th.

:crazy: :crazy:

Get ready for Callan or another IDI to say that Patsy could have seen the heart, not while JB was alive..but, later...after John had brought her up. So, lets nip that in the bud right now....JB was covered when Patsy came into the room, and even if she wasn't...I am quite positive that she wouldn't have been staring at her daughter's hand, and the "well drawn little heart", while her daughter's dead body layed on the floor. She would have been too distraught to even notice her hands, much less...think to herself (as she said in her interview)....what a well drawn little heart it was. The MAIN thing though is....that JB's body was covered up when Patsy entered the room, so she couldn't have seen it then.

My guess is that she denied seeing it, to point to YET ANOTHER thing that the "intruder" did. If not, then she could have said, that she saw it as she was tucking her into bed that night, or something.

 

[BOESP]

Get ready for Callan or another IDI to say that Patsy could have seen the heart, not while JB was alive..but, later...after John had brought her up. So, lets nip that in the bud right now....JB was covered when Patsy came into the room, and even if she wasn't...I am quite positive that she wouldn't have been staring at her daughter's hand, and the "well drawn little heart", while her daughter's dead body layed on the floor. She would have been too distraught to even notice her hands, much less...think to herself (as she said in her interview)....what a well drawn little heart it was. The MAIN thing though is....that JB's body was covered up when Patsy entered the room, so she couldn't have seen it then.

My guess is that she denied seeing it, to point to YET ANOTHER thing that the "intruder" did. If not, then she could have said, that she saw it as she was tucking her into bed that night, or something.

It sounds like either Patsy lied about the heart or John lied about seeing autopsy photos. Patsy should have declined knowledge the first time around or else said she saw it while JonBenet was under the Christmas tree.

The responses from the second day of those interviews sound like a plan to get Patsy out of incriminating herself over the heart. There is no other reasonable explanation.

 

[Solace]

Get ready for Callan or another IDI to say that Patsy could have seen the heart, not while JB was alive..but, later...after John had brought her up. So, lets nip that in the bud right now....JB was covered when Patsy came into the room, and even if she wasn't...I am quite positive that she wouldn't have been staring at her daughter's hand, and the "well drawn little heart", while her daughter's dead body layed on the floor. She would have been too distraught to even notice her hands, much less...think to herself (as she said in her interview)....what a well drawn little heart it was. The MAIN thing though is....that JB's body was covered up when Patsy entered the room, so she couldn't have seen it then.

My guess is that she denied seeing it, to point to YET ANOTHER thing that the "intruder" did. If not, then she could have said, that she saw it as she was tucking her into bed that night, or something.

I know they will AMES. But she reiterates three times that she saw it "that morning".

But as you have posted before, we could have a video of her slamming JB around and they would not believe it.

 

[Solace]

It sounds like either Patsy lied about the heart or John lied about seeing autopsy photos. Patsy should have declined knowledge the first time around or else said she saw it while JonBenet was under the Christmas tree.

The responses from the second day of those interviews sound like a plan to get Patsy out of incriminating herself over the heart. There is no other reasonable explanation.

For every crime out there, we could probably get together a group for and against and disect it both ways. So it is not unusual that there are avid pedofile theories, muslim theories, intruder and terrorist theories. BUT, the overriding evidence against Patsy herself and the fact that there is nothing at all to suggest an invader came into the house that night, leads me to only one conclusion. Patsy did it.

 

[BOESP]

For every crime out there, we could probably get together a group for and against and disect it both ways. So it is not unusual that there are avid pedofile theories, muslim theories, intruder and terrorist theories. BUT, the overriding evidence against Patsy herself and the fact that there is nothing at all to suggest an invader came into the house that night, leads me to only one conclusion. Patsy did it.

That's the thing Solace. Some theories are speculation about what coulda/woulda/mighta happened. Others are based on the evidence. Weighing the evidence from both viewpoints in this case, based only on the interviews that are online and on the ransom note analyses, and the scale tips toward Patsy in my opinion. Even Lou Smit came up with various ideas about an Intruder but nothing he said was provable -- someone could have or could not have come through a basement window; exhuming JonBenet's body for a scientific analysis of the alleged stun gun marks would settle the stun gun issue but no, that didn't happen either.

When two expert witnesses give conflicting testimony usually the jury will decide which expert is telling the reasonable story. There is more that indicates one or both of JonBenet's parents were involved than there is an Intruder was involved, particularly a kidnapping Intruder who didn't even bother to walk out the front or back door as he/she carried JonBenet downstairs. Sheesh -- kidnappers leave the premises with the victim. Having to come up with convoluted speculation to explain why the kidnapper didn't take Jonbenet is not a reasonable argument in my opinion.

Anyway, I still feel sorry for Patsy in many ways.

 

[Solace]

That's the thing Solace. Some theories are speculation about what coulda/woulda/mighta happened. Others are based on the evidence. Weighing the evidence from both viewpoints in this case, based only on the interviews that are online and on the ransom note analyses, and the scale tips toward Patsy in my opinion. Even Lou Smit came up with various ideas about an Intruder but nothing he said was provable -- someone could have or could not have come through a basement window; exhuming JonBenet's body for a scientific analysis of the alleged stun gun marks would settle the stun gun issue but no, that didn't happen either.

When two expert witnesses give conflicting testimony usually the jury will decide which expert is telling the reasonable story. There is more that indicates one or both of JonBenet's parents were involved than there is an Intruder was involved, particularly a kidnapping Intruder who didn't even bother to walk out the front or back door as he/she carried JonBenet downstairs. Sheesh -- kidnappers leave the premises with the victim. Having to come up with convoluted speculation to explain why the kidnapper didn't take Jonbenet is not a reasonable argument in my opinion.

Anyway, I still feel sorry for Patsy in many ways.

Trish of Forums for Justice has a great site on the Lou Smit joke. In it she shows a picture of Lou Smit coming into the basement and using the suitcase to stand on upon coming down through the window. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THE SUITCASE was not that way- he moved it to support his theory. I guess we are supposed to have "suspension of disbelief" when we listen to his theory.

 

[BOESP]

Trish of Forums for Justice has a great site on the Lou Smit joke. In it she shows a picture of Lou Smit coming into the basement and using the suitcase to stand on upon coming down through the window. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THE SUITCASE was not that way- he moved it to support his theory. I guess we are supposed to have "suspension of disbelief" when we listen to his theory.

I saw Smit's television program on JonBenet's case. I saw him hunker down and shimmy through the window. I wish he'd shown how the Intruder left through the window.

 

[Solace]

I saw Smit's television program on JonBenet's case. I saw him hunker down and shimmy through the window. I wish he'd shown how the Intruder left through the window.

I was just thinking the same thing. On the site Trish has, she shows the crime scene photos of the suitcase and then the suitcase as Lou Smit is coming down the window and the suitcase is against the wall whereas in the crime scene photos, the suitcase is not.

Come on, this is ridiculous the $h#* they have gotten away with. It is ludicrous. The man actually moves the suitcase to prove his point. And there are magically no leaves although Carne, the moron Judge, says leaves were found (we are talking one or two here) and yet Lou Smit has to perform acrobatics to get through the window and lets not forget the spider web is still in tact.

John says he has experts that are 90% sure that a stun gun was used; yet refused to exhume her body to prove it. Even though the manufacturer of the stun gun says he is at a loss because even though the distance is the same between the marks as a stun gun, the coloration is not. Even though Lou Smit says on LKL that is the closest thing we could come to - a taser stun gun.

I saw Trip De $h#%head on Nancy Grace with his side kick (Augustin) (sp?) and I knew more than both of them. Augustin (sp) actually had the audacity to say there were leaves found on the basement floor - out and out lie. There were a couple of leaves, certainly not the amount that would have fallen if an invader came through the window and the LIGHT WAS OUT in the basement that morning that John and the Officer French went looking for her - yet the intruder magically floated out the window in the pitch dark where he had to use a suitcase to give him leverage on leaving and he did not disturb the spider web.

No wonder Fleet White had a hard time with his good friend John. As I understand it he had a pad and was writing everything down at John's house that morning. That would make me nervous if I were John and Patsy.

Here I go again.:banghead:

 

[BOESP]

I was just thinking the same thing. On the site Trish has, she shows the crime scene photos of the suitcase and then the suitcase as Lou Smit is coming down the window and the suitcase is against the wall whereas in the crime scene photos, the suitcase is not.

Come on, this is ridiculous the $h#* they have gotten away with. It is ludicrous. The man actually moves the suitcase to prove his point. And there are magically no leaves although Carne, the moron Judge, says leaves were found (we are talking one or two here) and yet Lou Smit has to perform acrobatics to get through the window and lets not forget the spider web is still in tact.

John says he has experts that are 90% sure that a stun gun was used; yet refused to exhume her body to prove it. Even though the manufacturer of the stun gun says he is at a loss because even though the distance is the same between the marks as a stun gun, the coloration is not. Even though Lou Smit says on LKL that is the closest thing we could come to - a taser stun gun.

Here I go again.:banghead:

Unless the Intruder was naked, if he/she came through that window, there would have been fiber evidence and maybe even a swatch of torn cloth from the seat of the pants!

I admit exhumation is distasteful but in light of what the Ramsey team claims it seems a shoo-in to test those spots. Lots of things besides a taser could cause abrasions with the same distance as shown on the autopsy photos.

I'm still shaking my head over Smit saying the blue line between the abrasions proved it was likely a stun gun -- for pity's sake -- tasers don't die the skin. The continuity editor really should have caught that one!

 

[Solace]

Unless the Intruder was naked, if he/she came through that window, there would have been fiber evidence and maybe even a swatch of torn cloth from the seat of the pants!

I admit exhumation is distasteful but in light of what the Ramsey team claims it seems a shoo-in to test those spots. Lots of things besides a taser could cause abrasions with the same distance as shown on the autopsy photos.

I'm still shaking my head over Smit saying the blue line between the abrasions proved it was likely a stun gun -- for pity's sake -- tasers don't die the skin. The continuity editor really should have caught that one!

You are so good BOESP.

Okay, I admit that it is distasteful to exhume a body, HOWEVER, if I were innocent and really wanted this public lynching to stop, I would exhume her. If I know I did not do it and my wife did not, and there is a possibility it was a taser, than lets go. Also, the fact that I would do that would show that I was truly interested in finding the answers.

What is going to solve this case BOESP?

 

[Ames]

It sounds like either Patsy lied about the heart or John lied about seeing autopsy photos. Patsy should have declined knowledge the first time around or else said she saw it while JonBenet was under the Christmas tree.

The responses from the second day of those interviews sound like a plan to get Patsy out of incriminating herself over the heart. There is no other reasonable explanation.

I think that Patsy and John talked about their separate interviews with each other, and she told him that they asked about the heart, and her response. And then HE said..."Patsy, you screwed up...you shouldn't have told them that, go back tomorrow and fix what you have messed up".

 

[Ames]

For every crime out there, we could probably get together a group for and against and disect it both ways. So it is not unusual that there are avid pedofile theories, muslim theories, intruder and terrorist theories. BUT, the overriding evidence against Patsy herself and the fact that there is nothing at all to suggest an invader came into the house that night, leads me to only one conclusion. Patsy did it.

She sure did!

 

[Ames]

I saw Smit's television program on JonBenet's case. I saw him hunker down and shimmy through the window. I wish he'd shown how the Intruder left through the window.

Yep, and carrying the rope and tape.....(and baseball bat..as some IDI's think). Not an easy task, I would assume.

 

[Ames]

I was just thinking the same thing. On the site Trish has, she shows the crime scene photos of the suitcase and then the suitcase as Lou Smit is coming down the window and the suitcase is against the wall whereas in the crime scene photos, the suitcase is not.

Come on, this is ridiculous the $h#* they have gotten away with. It is ludicrous. The man actually moves the suitcase to prove his point. And there are magically no leaves although Carne, the moron Judge, says leaves were found (we are talking one or two here) and yet Lou Smit has to perform acrobatics to get through the window and lets not forget the spider web is still in tact.

John says he has experts that are 90% sure that a stun gun was used; yet refused to exhume her body to prove it. Even though the manufacturer of the stun gun says he is at a loss because even though the distance is the same between the marks as a stun gun, the coloration is not. Even though Lou Smit says on LKL that is the closest thing we could come to - a taser stun gun.

I saw Trip De $h#%head on Nancy Grace with his side kick (Augustin) (sp?) and I knew more than both of them. Augustin (sp) actually had the audacity to say there were leaves found on the basement floor - out and out lie. There were a couple of leaves, certainly not the amount that would have fallen if an invader came through the window and the LIGHT WAS OUT in the basement that morning that John and the Officer French went looking for her - yet the intruder magically floated out the window in the pitch dark where he had to use a suitcase to give him leverage on leaving and he did not disturb the spider web.

No wonder Fleet White had a hard time with his good friend John. As I understand it he had a pad and was writing everything down at John's house that morning. That would make me nervous if I were John and Patsy.

Here I go again.:banghead:

Callan and I have been arguing about whether that basement light was on, he says that Fleet said it WAS on. He posted it, and it says that in the Bonita Papers. I say that it was either off...or that John turned it on when he went down to MOVE HER BODY so that it would be found easier, and forgot to turn it off. I mean, I guess if you are moving your murdered daughters body, you tend to forget the little things, like turning off a light.