When was the last time Lisa was seen alive

[norest4thewicked]

I know exactly when they were filmed, on the weekend of October 22-23. Peter's was on Sunday, 10/23 and Cindy's was on Saturday or Sunday.

No matter when they were filmed, it was after Lisa vanished. I would like to know whose video was first. If Peter's was first, then the high chair tray is staging for the tour.

This wouldn't be proof of anything either way, just something to consider.

Oh...okay. So the videos were done approximately 3 weeks after Lisa went missing? Wouldn't that also mean that it would have been after LE had been through and local media? I would imagine that there could be many reasons for them to move things around. And, because I'm not that familiar with the videos, you are saying that both of these were done live? That is interesting...

 

[norest4thewicked]

Everything about that night is just too neat and tidy for two mothers with four kids between them. According to them, they sat on the stoop for 3 1/2 hours straight - none of the kids took a bath, brushed their teeth, got tucked in, wanted water, juice, a snack. Had all the kids been put to bed and their adult time started at 8:00 pm, sure, I'd get that, but 6:30 or 7:00? No way, something is being left out, big time.

My thoughts exactly! I think that Lisa died before that evening and everything that happened that day and night were staged for a reason, including DB sitting on the porch for hours drinking. She had an alibi, right? She was out drinking on the front porch and everyone in the neighborhood saw her.

 

[4Jacy]

Just a theory:

When DB & PN went to the store, the house had two adults there, JI & SB, plus DB & JI's two sons, baby Lisa and Amy, SB's daughter.

JI had worked all day and he had to work a night shift that night, he wanted to get a little shut eye. What if SB was in the other room with the children, watching movies, playing games with them, or starting to get dinner ready, since they were eating there also. Lisa is fussing, crying and JI can't take it anymore (he is beyond tired), so he either shakes Lisa too hard or gives her too much medicine. SB sees nothing of this because, as I said, she was preoccupied in other areas of the house.

When JI left to go to work he didn't mention to DB that he had shaken/given medicines to Lisa. He didn't mean to hurt her, didn't know he had. Lisa was still alive at that point, however, as the night progressed, because of whatever was done to her, she died.

Sometime, DB realized Lisa was dead and somehow reached JI. JI got in touch with PN or someone else to dispose of the body.

I know this is far-fetched, and yet, to me at least, it seems the most likely senario. At this point I don't see this as a murder or abduction. I feel both parents loved Lisa, and this was a horrible accident.

JMHO

 

[vlpate]

My thoughts exactly! I think that Lisa died before that evening and everything that happened that day and night were staged for a reason, including DB sitting on the porch for hours drinking. She had an alibi, right? She was out drinking on the front porch and everyone in the neighborhood saw her.

I just don't think it happened before she went to the store, I just can't see even the worst of the worst smiling and laughing, lugging a box of wine out of the store. A serial killer, maybe, but not a mother whose never had a single report to child services. Of course it happens, I remember the woman who went shopping after killing her baby, but she had a record of child services reports and a criminal record as well.

I think you are right about it being earlier in the day, just not earlier than 5:00, IMO.

 

[vlpate]

Oh...okay. So the videos were done approximately 3 weeks after Lisa went missing? Wouldn't that also mean that it would have been after LE had been through and local media? I would imagine that there could be many reasons for them to move things around. And, because I'm not that familiar with the videos, you are saying that both of these were done live? That is interesting...

Yes, after the search warrant, 17 hour search. The furniture was moved for a reason, that's what I am trying to figure out. They didn't need to move the chest of drawers to inspect them.. The very first picture we see of the baby's room, somewhere around the 10/12, the chest is not there, just a baby swing. There are drawers from the dresser stacked at the foot of the crib. The first photos of that chest of drawers being thee was a still from Cindy Short's video and in Peter's video after the search. If Short spent much time in Lisa's room, it was edited out.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Just a theory:

When DB & PN went to the store, the house had two adults there, JI & SB, plus DB & JI's two sons, baby Lisa and Amy, SB's daughter.

JI had worked all day and he had to work a night shift that night, he wanted to get a little shut eye. What if SB was in the other room with the children, watching movies, playing games with them, or starting to get dinner ready, since they were eating there also. Lisa is fussing, crying and JI can't take it anymore (he is beyond tired), so he either shakes Lisa too hard or gives her too much medicine. SB sees nothing of this because, as I said, she was preoccupied in other areas of the house.

When JI left to go to work he didn't mention to DB that he had shaken/given medicines to Lisa. He didn't mean to hurt her, didn't know he had. Lisa was still alive at that point, however, as the night progressed, because of whatever was done to her, she died.

Sometime, DB realized Lisa was dead and somehow reached JI. JI got in touch with PN or someone else to dispose of the body.

I know this is far-fetched, and yet, to me at least, it seems the most likely senario. At this point I don't see this as a murder or abduction. I feel both parents loved Lisa, and this was a horrible accident.

JMHO

:seeya: This is an interesting theory ... and NOT "far-fetched" at all IMO ... but I have a couple of thoughts :innocent: :

- When Deb realized Lisa was not alive, why didn't Deb call 9-1-1 ?

- And -- SB was there ... so what did she see happening -- and what does she know ?

:seeya:

 

[vlpate]

Obviously I wasn't there, so I really don't know, he could have grabbed the phones, then he heard the baby, or if his motive were to break in for the baby, maybe he grabbed the phones on the way out. Either way phones and baby are missing. I think it depends on who you think a SODDI is, in relation to your question. MOO of course.

I'm asking based on common sense...regardless of what you or I think. What makes the most sense. Breaking in to snatch either the baby or the phones makes no sense to me. I can't wrap my mind around a motive.

In all the years I've been following criminal cases, most especially those involving crimes against children, I have never seen a case where an intruder broke into a home, stole a baby and ANYTHING else - and vise verse. There's never been a case of a male, who does not know the family, breaking in just to steal the baby without leaving a ransom note.

You're right of course, none of us know anything for certain, but most of us have access to profiles, past cases of infant abduction, and deductive reasoning skills. At the end of the day, armed with these things, the only scenario that makes sense involves someone living at 3620 Lister Drive, and/or someone who resided there in the past, knows exactly where Lisa is.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I'm asking based on common sense...regardless of what you or I think. What makes the most sense. Breaking in to snatch either the baby or the phones makes no sense to me. I can't wrap my mind around a motive.

In all the years I've been following criminal cases, most especially those involving crimes against children, I have never seen a case where an intruder broke into a home, stole a baby and ANYTHING else - and vise verse. There's never been a case of a male, who does not know the family, breaking in just to steal the baby without leaving a ransom note.

You're right of course, none of us know anything for certain, but most of us have access to profiles, past cases of infant abduction, and deductive reasoning skills. At the end of the day, armed with these things, the only scenario that makes sense involves someone living at 3620 Lister Drive, and/or someone who resided there in the past, knows exactly where Lisa is.

Again, I would have to say it would depend on who the perp was and what their motive for being in the house was. If it was Jersey, then I would think he may have entered looking for anything he could steal, and possibly the baby fussed, he snatched her up and left, if it was JB, then maybe his intent was to make DB suffer and knowing she would be the first looked at, and we have heard of his knowledge of phones. Did he want to see what texts transpired between SB and DB? Did he want to erase a text he may have sent? Or it could possibly someone who has yet to enter our view thru MSM.

 

[4Jacy]

:seeya: This is an interesting theory ... and NOT "far-fetched" at all IMO ... but I have a couple of thoughts :innocent: :

- When Deb realized Lisa was not alive, why didn't Deb call 9-1-1 ?

- And -- SB was there ... so what did she see happening -- and what does she know ?

:seeya:

Well, dgc, my thoughts are that Lisa was still alive after DB returned from the store, including dinner time. After DB put her to bed is when she may have died. IN FACE, DB COULD HAVE GIVEN LISA MORE MEDS, NOT KNOWING JI ALREADY HAD DONE SO.

After the two ladies were outside having their "adult time", SB, Amy and perhaps DB saw Lisa and assumed she was sleeping. Sometime (approximately 10:30) DB checked on Lisa again, thus the statement she made regarding that time, and found a dead Lisa.

The rest is what I stated above (about DB calling JI, et. al.)

I never believed in the SODDI theory, nor Jeremy. This case is a slippery slope, and in my humble opinion THEY ARE COVERING EACH OTHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS TERRIBLE ACCIDENT.

JMHO, of course :seeya:

 

[vlpate]

Again, I would have to say it would depend on who the perp was and what their motive for being in the house was. If it was Jersey, then I would think he may have entered looking for anything he could steal, and possibly the baby fussed, he snatched her up and left, if it was JB, then maybe his intent was to make DB suffer and knowing she would be the first looked at, and we have heard of his knowledge of phones. Did he want to see what texts transpired between SB and DB? Did he want to erase a text he may have sent? Or it could possibly someone who has yet to enter our view thru MSM.

BEM: Could be. Maybe the text LE asked DB about during her interrogation...the 2:30 am call, "ready when you are". If this is true, the call and the verbiage, I think whomever texted this message probably took the phones for just the reason you state.

Could a text like that have come from outside the window - it's time to pass the baby to me..."ready"?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Well, dgc, my thoughts are that Lisa was still alive after DB returned from the store, including dinner time. After DB put her to bed is when she may have died. IN FACE, DB COULD HAVE GIVEN LISA MORE MEDS, NOT KNOWING JI ALREADY HAD DONE SO.

After the two ladies were outside having their "adult time", SB, Amy and perhaps DB saw Lisa and assumed she was sleeping. Sometime (approximately 10:30) DB checked on Lisa again, thus the statement she made regarding that time, and found a dead Lisa.

The rest is what I stated above (about DB calling JI, et. al.)

I never believed in the SODDI theory, nor Jeremy. This case is a slippery slope, and in my humble opinion THEY ARE COVERING EACH OTHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS TERRIBLE ACCIDENT.

JMHO, of course :seeya:

:seeya: TY ... and your 'theory" is now even MORE interesting !

Oh wow -- DB did say in one of her statements that 10:30 pm was the last time she checked on Lisa ... But then she moved up the time ...

This is a very interesting theory ...

:seeya:

 

[norest4thewicked]

I just don't think it happened before she went to the store, I just can't see even the worst of the worst smiling and laughing, lugging a box of wine out of the store. A serial killer, maybe, but not a mother whose never had a single report to child services. Of course it happens, I remember the woman who went shopping after killing her baby, but she had a record of child services reports and a criminal record as well.

I think you are right about it being earlier in the day, just not earlier than 5:00, IMO.

I just can't get Casey Anthony out of my mind and seeing her on video that night at the video store and only a few days later dancing on the tables. You could be right, but I just think that the key is JI and DB being so glued together. I mean, if all of this was staged, DB pretty much HAD to act her part. Stranger things have happened and people can do unexplainable things when they are under pressure.

 

[Sparklin]

Yes, after the search warrant, 17 hour search. The furniture was moved for a reason, that's what I am trying to figure out. They didn't need to move the chest of drawers to inspect them.. The very first picture we see of the baby's room, somewhere around the 10/12, the chest is not there, just a baby swing. There are drawers from the dresser stacked at the foot of the crib. The first photos of that chest of drawers being thee was a still from Cindy Short's video and in Peter's video after the search. If Short spent much time in Lisa's room, it was edited out.

I'm not sure when exactly, but Deb says in an msm video that they had some of Lisas things with them 'where they were staying', waiting for her. I know they were allowed in after the search, but it IS odd if things were moved around by media for their 'walk through'. Possibly D/J were in and out taking things, moving things in between the videos??

 

[Sparklin]

Well, dgc, my thoughts are that Lisa was still alive after DB returned from the store, including dinner time. After DB put her to bed is when she may have died. IN FACE, DB COULD HAVE GIVEN LISA MORE MEDS, NOT KNOWING JI ALREADY HAD DONE SO.

After the two ladies were outside having their "adult time", SB, Amy and perhaps DB saw Lisa and assumed she was sleeping. Sometime (approximately 10:30) DB checked on Lisa again, thus the statement she made regarding that time, and found a dead Lisa.

The rest is what I stated above (about DB calling JI, et. al.)

I never believed in the SODDI theory, nor Jeremy. This case is a slippery slope, and in my humble opinion THEY ARE COVERING EACH OTHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS TERRIBLE ACCIDENT.

JMHO, of course :seeya:

Amy = M

I can't help but go back to the timing - even the call at 4am...even as far as Jeremy not having an alibi, at least they would have had each other as an alibi..Jeremy could even have said he glanced in and DID see Lisa at 3:30/3:45 when he got home ~ they would have had a few more hours to think things through. I just think the timing doesn't work for parents being responsible. All mo of course.

 

[Sparklin]

BEM: Could be. Maybe the text LE asked DB about during her interrogation...the 2:30 am call, "ready when you are". If this is true, the call and the verbiage, I think whomever texted this message probably took the phones for just the reason you state.

Could a text like that have come from outside the window - it's time to pass the baby to me..."ready"?

Can LE get actual texts without the phone?

 

[Donjeta]

Who is Amy or Maria?

 

[norest4thewicked]

Amy = Maria

I can't help but go back to the timing - even the call at 4am...even as far as Jeremy not having an alibi, at least they would have had each other as an alibi..Jeremy could even have said he glanced in and DID see Lisa at 3:30/3:45 when he got home ~ they would have had a few more hours to think things through. I just think the timing doesn't work for parents being responsible. All mo of course.

But, that's assuming that Lisa died while JI was at work. IF Lisa had passed away Sunday evening or Monday during the day, they would have time to plan/stage the scene. They didn't need more time because they had all day Monday. Just my opinion.

 

[hambirg]

Can LE get actual texts without the phone?

Yes. From all the reading I did trying to figure out what they would need the actual phones for. . .it seems old texts, current ones would still be available, and the contact list. Also, depending on the phone company and the phone settings, photos.

They would also need the actual phone to be able to see if it was tampered with in any way.

 

[Sparklin]

But, that's assuming that Lisa died while JI was at work. IF Lisa had passed away Sunday evening or Monday during the day, they would have time to plan/stage the scene. They didn't need more time because they had all day Monday. Just my opinion.

True, but they would have to be some kind of monsters to be able to carry on drinking, working, chatting...while their daughter lay dead in her bed. Even the cashier at Festival Foods said Deb was perfectly normal and said the kids were great when asked. I would think there would be SOME sign of stress, anxiety, emotions of any kind. I just don't seem them as cold hearted monsters able to carry that off.

 

[Sparklin]

Who is Amy or M?

There is no Amy that I'm aware of ~ I believe she is talking about Samanthas daughter.