Where is Amy's totalled car? Time Line and Ping

[AZlawyer]

Warning, patience required, I'll get 'round to the point...and tie to the thread topic...eventually

Speculation on top of speculation I'm afraid...but, after seeing the carseat images released showing the stains - albeit w/o details to suggest whether they could be decomp-related or not - I couldn't resist the opportunity to free up the imagination to try reconciling some things.

One thing that has been problematic w/ any 'theory' is the process of getting Caylee into the trunk w/o being seen. While I've tried not to get too hung up on this point...telling myself it could be accomplished in broad daylight using something such as the WTP blanket, etc. to conceal the transfer in a parking lot (e.g. Tony's Sutton Place Apt)...the stains on the carseat *permitted* me to suspend some conventional thinking.

IF (big, fat, speculative IF) the stains in the carseat are decomp-related, the one on the shoulder strap gets my attention. And please - I know how mucked up a carseat can get, w/ everyday use, so no need to inform me 'bout that, alright? A decomp stain on the shoulder strap would permit one to speculate that the duct tape weren't in-place @ TOD (recognizing that fluid could come from eyes, ears too, but, go easy on me for the sake of the post, eh?).

Straying further off the beaten path oke: I'm inclined to agree w/ the notion that Casey would've most likely NOT directly touched Caylee post-mortem anymore than absolutely necessary, hence, peri-mortem application of the duct tape is indicated. But since we're relaxing things a bit for the sake of speculation... For me, the purpose of the application of duct tape peri-mortem most likely had to be about keeping Caylee quiet if either she refused to goto sleep in the Pontiac or if she awoke in the Pontiac, whether she was sedated or not. IOW, that thinking is to suggest that Casey needed to ensure Caylee didn't draw attention to herself in the Pontiac whilst unattended...yet another reason to think placing Caylee in the trunk - out of sight and considerably muffled, peri-mortem.

But, if I allow myself the freedom to consider Casey could accomplish what she absolutely had to...to save her own skin...I'm not too squeamish about allowing Casey to apply some tape post-mortem. In fact, the aspect of Casey applying the duct tape because she HAD to is quite appealing, considering her m.o. So, this puts me in a different place.

Decomp stains on the shoulder strap couldn't occur until hours after TOD. IOW...it takes some time for the decomp fluids to be generated sufficient to begin 'leaking' from the body. That speculation would put Caylee IN her carseat @ the TOD and for several hours after. And THAT speculation would join nicely w/ one of the other big disconnects for me - the presence of the duct tape @ the same location as Caylee after leaving Hopespring that afternoon.

While it is entirely possible that Casey had the duct tape in her car completely by accident, or even as a result some legitimate things we know about leading up to 6/16...my inclination is to believe the duct tape was most likely @ Hopespring vs. already in the Pontiac. If I'm forced into it, I guess I'd also admit the presence of the knife in the car, begging to be associated w/ cutting the tape is another brick-in-the-wall of an @-Hopespring tape application scenario. In full discosure, I also further see Caylee being found in the "Big Trouble..." tee as an indication that her death took place after she was prepped for sleep AFTER leaving Hopespring that afternoon.

Sooooo...all this ramblin' speculation would have Casey driving the Pontiac to Hopespring on the afternoon of 6/17 w/ Caylee in the carseat in plain view...looking like a napping toddler to passersby. Upon arriving at Hopespring, and afforded the cover provided by being in the garage, it would have reactive-Casey applying the duct tape to Caylee upon observing the fluid leaking from her nose/mouth, and realizing that it would get ON Casey when she lifted Caylee from the carseat which she HAD to do. Perhaps the whole lifting of a rigor-Caylee out of the carseat might've resulted in the unexplained stains on the headliner (driver's side IIRC).

So, what does all of this have to do w/ Amy's totaled car?

One last point and we're there (finally ). AFAIK, Tony's account and Casey's cell activity on the night of 6/16 and the morning of 6/17 show no signs of nervousness about Caylee being discovered in the Pontiac. I mean think about it :waitasec:. IF it WAS an accident, a bad decision made in the haze of the evenings recreational activities, by the morning, a sobering Casey would've been somewhat anxious about getting to the Pontiac to find out if Caylee was somehow still alive. AND IF it WASN'T an accident and Casey was certain of Caylee's demise...then Casey had to be supremely confident in how well Caylee was concealed.

Sooooooo....the scenario above would have Caylee in the carseat @ TOD, w/o duct tape AND Casey confident that Caylee wouldn't be discovered that way. How could all of that be possible????

...by placing the car cover from Amy's totaled car over the Pontiac before leaving Caylee strapped in her carseat. And, of course, I have to point out that Amy mentioned that she could get a cover for the car when it was towed to Tony's...not that she actually did get one.

Oh, also...by the evening hours, say, 6:30PM on 6/16 the temperature in the car, even when adjusted for some increase vs. ambient, would've been in the neighborhood of 75F - not sufficiently hot to cause death, IMHO. This fact would support that Casey employed some sort of mother's-little-helper that resulted in Caylee's death, and perhaps gave her the confidence she displayed that Caylee waking up wouldn't be a concern, hence, car cover sufficient, hence, no next-morning-rush, hence, no duct tape required.

Alright...I'm outta practice, but, glad to get that off my chest.

Thanks for jogging my brain cells, Bond! This is a very interesting possibility.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thanks for jogging my brain cells, Bond! This is a very interesting possibility.

Thanks, AZ. Just speculation on top of speculation, but, its been rolling around in my brain....selfishly, cathartic post on my part.

FWIW...by 8AM 6/17 the interior car temperature would've been approaching 95F. By 8:30AM 98F...deadly in a short period of time I would think.

The ADD would reach into 6/20 to 8AM under those conditions. Just FYI...not planning to take that anywhere.

 

[Intermezzo]

Coming late to the game on this but FWIW, I located some information regarding the traffic case. Citation #2310EAR filed against AH on 3/08/05 for failure to yield to oncoming traffic when making left turn, by an Officer Lee. I cannot find a VIN ANYWHERE. With FL's Sunshine Laws and I am having great difficulty coming to terms with the fact that this information is not available to us somewhere.
AZLawyer, thanks for your help in locating this traffic citation info. :blowkiss:
Any ideas on how to proceed from here? We've had an Orlando local, Cocoamom, graciously look into the accident report without success. Wondering if anyone has additional ideas on obtaining vehicle make, model, year, color or VIN? I would really like to know the answers on where in the heck this car is and what became of it, so we can put this theory to rest or at least fill in the holes...:bang:

I think (but am not positive) that if you go down to the Clerks Office and look it up in their system, the actual ticket may be available (or a copy of it.)

BBM
To obtain that info, a vehicle record search, you would need the license(tag) plate number.

 

[AZlawyer]

BBM
To obtain that info, a vehicle record search, you would need the license(tag) plate number.

I have a plate no. and VIN (1994 green Toyota Corolla) but already looked it up on https://www7.hsmv.state.fl.us/vehiclecheck/ and on a subscription site and found only that the title was transferred to her from her dad on 12/27/07. There was no lien on the vehicle, so no transfer of title to the lienholder as you would normally see after a car is totaled.

 

[mom2chloe]

I have a plate no. and VIN (1994 green Toyota Corolla) but already looked it up on https://www7.hsmv.state.fl.us/vehiclecheck/ and on a subscription site and found only that the title was transferred to her from her dad on 12/27/07. There was no lien on the vehicle, so no transfer of title to the lienholder as you would normally see after a car is totaled.

Should we obtain a Carfax report?
ETA interesting date of title transfer...prior to Caylee missing. Perhaps AH had fulfilled a debt to her parents to pay for the car? Thanks for your work AZ, holy moly where did you find this? We have tried....
Would you possibly have access to information regarding what type of vehicle is currently registered in AH's name?

 

[AZlawyer]

Should we obtain a Carfax report?
ETA interesting date of title transfer...prior to Caylee missing. Perhaps AH had fulfilled a debt to her parents to pay for the car? Thanks for your work AZ, holy moly where did you find this? We have tried....
Would you possibly have access to information regarding what type of vehicle is currently registered in AH's name?

1997 burgundy Toyota Corolla, title transferred to AH on 6/13/08.

 

[cjm11]

I may be way off base here, but what if the new info the SA has that they want to keep secret is lab testing from the totalled car. Maybe they had to track it down and get the testing done and then wait for the results, which they just recently got?

 

[BondJamesBond]

...interesting date of title transfer...prior to Caylee missing. Perhaps AH had fulfilled a debt to her parents to pay for the car?

*snipped*

1997 burgundy Toyota Corolla, title transferred to AH on 6/13/08.

The date Amy picked it (Corolla) up in J'ville when Casey was supposed to accompany her...'cept, of course, she couldn't because of George's stroke

 

[mom2chloe]

bump.

 

[DeadCat]

bump...anyone spot anything new in any of the later released docs re: the Amy's broken down car or AL's knowledge of the car?