Who do you think the Zodiac Killer actually is?

[ZoeBuiot]

Based on research you have done(if any) or if you just want to guess. I'm doing a research project and want to dive into more possible suspects!

 

[AC4RD]

I've read several books on Zodiac. Books offer many possible suspects--like Graysmith's first edition, in which he pointed a finger at someone who was later cleared by DNA. But a lot of people (myself included) thought we knew after the Graysmith book came out. (Edited to clarify: Graysmith made it seem like an open-and-shut case; the book made it sound like the police just needed to find the evidence because this guy in the Graysmith book MUST have been guilty, the way it was written.) It was a good lesson for me--don't be in a rush to let myself be convinced by a book!

My entirely unqualified guess is: Somebody we've never heard of. Like Jack the Ripper, I think Zodiac was some deeply twisted person living in the area, and my guess is that we don't know who, nobody's written a book about this guy yet. And like Saucy Jack, I think it's very unlikely that we will ever know for sure.

As I said, my opinions are idiosyncratic, and are entirely untainted by any trace of knowledge or training in this area. Good luck with the project! --ken

 

[Richard]

I do not have an opinion on the identity of the killer known as Zodiac, but I feel that there were more than one killer responsible for the many murders that have been suggested as being "Zodiac victims" over the years.

Only the first four incidents, in which 5 persons were killed and two badly wounded can be solidly connected to the original unknown subject who claimed to be Zodiac. That person may have killed others later, but he also claimed credit for several murders that were proven to have been committed by others.

While the letter writer/crypto nut who first claimed to be Zodiac probably did commit the first series of killings, it is possible that another person or persons may have taken up the pen, sending later letters.

 

[BDHOLLAND]

I think he is connected with law enforcement and all that anti-cop stuff in his letters is just misdirection.



The red herrings appeal to me most, also in the EARONS (Jospeph James DeAngelo) case. Zodiac is painting himself as a cop-hating villain who can't even spell words. So, we are supposed to believe in this uneducated cop hater hiding in the shadows with a cloak and dagger. What should we do with that? Find the Zodiac in the opposite as we can with EARONS. You know what? It works! The Zodiac investigation has also looked at cops and the military. So, there is another clue for us.

1. Darlene Ferrin thought the Zodiac was a cop, and so did Mike Mageau. His witness statement includes that Ferrin thought he was a cop. Not some guy she knew or anything like that for this second car encounter. That is why Mageau had his I.D. out. So that's two Zodiac targets, one who survived, who thought Zodiac was a cop.
2. Zodiac used his flashlight to blind Ferrin and Mageau. EARONS also did this. One EARONS target thought she felt a police belt on him.
3. Zodiac understood cut-off techniques.
4. Zodiac understood jurisdictional problems and exploited them.
5. Zodiac understood switching up modus operandi helped him. EARONS did the same.
6. Zodiac ordered Hartnell and Shepard to their knees and went rear just like an arrest. EARONS subdued and tied up also.
7. Zodiac uses terminology in his letters associated with L.E. compliance commands. EARONS also did this verbally.
8. Collecting slaves in the afterlife is documented as a phrase some police officers used if they shot a black person.
9. Zodiac understood ballistic reports, and the first letters are like them.
10. The Zodiac uses ruse words like 'pig' which Joseph James DeAngelo also used as EARONS to misdirect.
11. Zodiac knew fireworks would delay police responses to gunshots. Zodiac knew how to escape mostly without being seen. EARONS also knew his escape routes.
12. Zodiac is forensically aware and understood that saliva on envelope seals could identify blood type even in 1969.
13. Zodiac reports. EARONS asked his targets to report things to law enforcement for him.
14. Zodiac was calm around cops when they showed up and got away.
15. Zodiac seemed to avoid stakeouts at Vallejo. So did VREARONS. It is believed he has inside knowledge and a police radio. Zodiac wrote a letter about how he would never blow up a police station, and then he said in the next letter he would kill a cop. I think he contradicted himself because he thought his sympathy was too revealing.
16. The close groups of spent cartridges indicate that the Zodiac has been trained to take a stance before firing and does not move while shooting. That would be firearms training proficiency even if one victim survived a gunshot attack.
At least some of these points are probably the indicators that investigators were dealing with someone like them. According to The Sacramento Bee, Vallejo police Detective Terry Poyser, who has worked the Zodiac case for four years, seemed to think that there was a possibility the Zodiac was LE and this was in 2019.

https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article210320689.html

Even if Allen doesn't prove to be the Zodiac, Poyser said he believes it was someone familiar with Vallejo, and perhaps with a law enforcement or military background. May 02, 2019

That is significant because a law enforcement background is extremely rare among serial killers. You could insert accountant or painter here, and it has the same rarity that stands out. So investigators in 2019 have law enforcement as the Zodiac in their sights.

 

[ZoeBuiot]

I had never thought about it that way

I think he is connected with law enforcement and all that anti-cop stuff in his letters is just misdirection.

 

[BDHOLLAND]

I had never thought about it that way

He even had the rope in his rear where cops keep cuffs.

 

[ZoeBuiot]

He even had the rope in his rear where cops keep cuffs.

woah

 

[BDHOLLAND]

You might like this possibility then also.

 

[Felix Klitzke]

I would proudly like to answer this one, in my honest opinion Zodiac was probably Ross Sullivan. One day I was watching a documentary about the Zodiac Killer and they mentioned Ross Sullivan over and over again. Ross worked at the library at the university where Cheri Jo Bates was murdered, on the campus he worked at he made people feel uneasy on campus, he read books about secret code, he worn military styled boots which was founded at the crime scene of one of his victims, he never returned to work Cheri Jo Bate's was killed until days later, and last thing he looks exactly like the sketch.

 

[ZoeBuiot]

I would proudly like to answer this one, in my honest opinion Zodiac was probably Ross Sullivan. One day I was watching a documentary about the Zodiac Killer and they mentioned Ross Sullivan over and over again. Ross worked at the library at the university where Cheri Jo Bates was murdered, on the campus he worked at he made people feel uneasy on campus, he read books about secret code, he worn military styled boots which was founded at the crime scene of one of his victims, he never returned to work Cheri Jo Bate's was killed until days later, and last thing he looks exactly like the sketch.

Do you possibly know where i can find the documentary you are referencing? I had narrowed it down to 5 people I think Zodiac could possibly be and Ross Sullivan was one of them.

 

[Felix Klitzke]

Do you possibly know where i can find the documentary you are referencing? I had narrowed it down to 5 people I think Zodiac could possibly be and Ross Sullivan was one of them.

I watched this on YouTube, I forgot the name of it unfortunately, go to YouTube and search "Zodiac Killer Documentary" (Make sure it is not the 2007 one) And one last thing try and read this Category: Ross Sullivan

 

[Richard]

The serial killer who attacked the three couples and the Taxi driver, used a different handgun for each attack. None of those handguns were used in any of the other attacks that were later tentatively connected to the Zodiac case, although there were other similar attacks using similar types of weapons.

 

[CRamsdell]

The Hunt For The Zodiac Killer. You can watch it on Discover+. It’s a really good show.

 

[Kell1]

I Dont know who, but im pretty sure what he was, sadly we just weren't as advanced then, if that crime happned today it would almost certainly be solved and probably in short order

 

[Kell1]

I feel the few around him may have had suspicions at the time, but they either refused to or were afraid to come forward.

The Zodiac persona would be the crowning achievement in his life.

He was most likely a social oddball, suffering from paranoia possibly bipolar prone to severe changes in mood, depressed loner, few if any friends and most likely preferred it that way primarily during the period he was actively committing the murders

He would have lifelong issues with (which) gender he preferred sexually, domineering mother figure whom he probably lived with at least most of his life possibly during his crime spree, there appears to be an absent or abusive father figure, narcissism triggered by a severe feeling of inadequacy.


As is common with paranoia, would feel a overwhelming need to seek retribution for real or perceived, wrongs, however being a coward it would usually be nothing like a direct assault, damaging property, killing a pet, in this instance he would be more like a bomber or poisoner (hence the Unabomb references)

Meticulous at times, but stress and mood changes, would often cause him to fray and become sloppy.

Narcissistic traits, would carry over into most facets of his life, where he'd be known to be self absorbed, and think he was better than those around him, however it would be more muted than you would expect, most likely not well liked in the workplace. He would feel a need to demonstrate his superiority, often felt underappreciated or repressed at work. They are often a stickler for rules, and will readily point out anything their co workers do wrong , this feeds their superiority complex .

If any military service, would have had issues with discipline, behavioral or even health issues most likely leading to a discharge.

Firearms would be what gave him power power so he most likely owned several, these types will often be hunters etc..

The murders themselves, speak more to the true personality of Zodiac, the letters help to shape his image of himself better, to bring about a clearer picture behaviorally

The attacks were solitary attacks in dark areas where couples, were engaged, in sexual activity, or appeared to be so, he most likely staked out these areas prior, this isn't an individual to leave much to chance . This was viewed as a "wrong" by him, he was going to make those pay, for their wrongs, because it was what HE desired but was not able to have.

Some have labeled him a sadist, im not certain I would label him that, i feel the hood and outfit were more a part of the persona he created than seeking pleasure from the fear he caused, though he most certainly reveled in it, sadists derive arousal and pleasure from pain and fear this, this takes time and usually a location where the victim wont be discovered, though these crimes, were both sexual and terrifying seemed more to fill his narcissistic need for power.

The communiques were the second component, they were what he wanted us to see, HIS version of why and to scare the public.

Where we get the most, is the murder of the cab driver, which was out of line with his normal MO, this was in response to tha papers referring to him as a coward who preyed upon women. This demonstrates a need for HIM to dictate how he is perceived, and to re-establish his "machismo" .

So what happened to him ?

Experts feel initially he stopped, because he felt LE was too close, as in most cases, they may have even interviewed him, but for some reason they never tied him to anything.

AS we now know serial killers can and do stop for any variety of reasons unlike the previous notion that they only ever stopped because they were dead or in prison.

So why did he never re-appear?

Theories abound, but one I feel holds the most credibility , is probably the least interesting, when a paranoid , depressive, with severe mood swings no support system, begins to feels like they've lost the control they once held so powerfully, they are very prone to suicide.

I do not believe he went on to commit further crimes anywhere , i don't think he changed MO and kept on killing, I don't believe he later mailed bombs to executives. i feel that his only way to maintain power and control while dealing with severe depression, was to take his own life

 

[Richard]

I feel the few around him may have had suspicions at the time, but they either refused to or were afraid to come forward.

The Zodiac persona would be the crowning achievement in his life.

He was most likely a social oddball, suffering from paranoia possibly bipolar prone to severe changes in mood, depressed loner, few if any friends and most likely preferred it that way primarily during the period he was actively committing the murders

He would have lifelong issues with (which) gender he preferred sexually, domineering mother figure whom he probably lived with at least most of his life possibly during his crime spree, there appears to be an absent or abusive father figure, narcissism triggered by a severe feeling of inadequacy.


As is common with paranoia, would feel a overwhelming need to seek retribution for real or perceived, wrongs, however being a coward it would usually be nothing like a direct assault, damaging property, killing a pet, in this instance he would be more like a bomber or poisoner (hence the Unabomb references)

Meticulous at times, but stress and mood changes, would often cause him to fray and become sloppy.

Narcissistic traits, would carry over into most facets of his life, where he'd be known to be self absorbed, and think he was better than those around him, however it would be more muted than you would expect, most likely not well liked in the workplace. He would feel a need to demonstrate his superiority, often felt underappreciated or repressed at work. They are often a stickler for rules, and will readily point out anything their co workers do wrong , this feeds their superiority complex .

If any military service, would have had issues with discipline, behavioral or even health issues most likely leading to a discharge.

Firearms would be what gave him power power so he most likely owned several, these types will often be hunters etc..

The murders themselves, speak more to the true personality of Zodiac, the letters help to shape his image of himself better, to bring about a clearer picture behaviorally

The attacks were solitary attacks in dark areas where couples, were engaged, in sexual activity, or appeared to be so, he most likely staked out these areas prior, this isn't an individual to leave much to chance . This was viewed as a "wrong" by him, he was going to make those pay, for their wrongs, because it was what HE desired but was not able to have.

Some have labeled him a sadist, im not certain I would label him that, i feel the hood and outfit were more a part of the persona he created than seeking pleasure from the fear he caused, though he most certainly reveled in it, sadists derive arousal and pleasure from pain and fear this, this takes time and usually a location where the victim wont be discovered, though these crimes, were both sexual and terrifying seemed more to fill his narcissistic need for power.

The communiques were the second component, they were what he wanted us to see, HIS version of why and to scare the public.

Where we get the most, is the murder of the cab driver, which was out of line with his normal MO, this was in response to tha papers referring to him as a coward who preyed upon women. This demonstrates a need for HIM to dictate how he is perceived, and to re-establish his "machismo" .

So what happened to him ?

Experts feel initially he stopped, because he felt LE was too close, as in most cases, they may have even interviewed him, but for some reason they never tied him to anything.

AS we now know serial killers can and do stop for any variety of reasons unlike the previous notion that they only ever stopped because they were dead or in prison.

So why did he never re-appear?

Theories abound, but one I feel holds the most credibility , is probably the least interesting, when a paranoid , depressive, with severe mood swings no support system, begins to feels like they've lost the control they once held so powerfully, they are very prone to suicide.

I do not believe he went on to commit further crimes anywhere , i don't think he changed MO and kept on killing, I don't believe he later mailed bombs to executives. i feel that his only way to maintain power and control while dealing with severe depression, was to take his own life

Great post. I agree that, while there may be some (quite a few actually) similarities between the never identified Zodiac killer and UNABOM (Ted Kaczynski), there are some significant differences in MO and writing styles which tend to mark them as separate individuals.

They do share a number of psychological traits, and behaviors. Also similar disregard for their victims. Both were killers and writers who liked to taunt LE.

There are also some geographical connections (i.e. San Francisco as an aparent base), but it is the differences in MO which set them apart.

One has to wonder what previous similar crimes might have been committed by each and what might have motivated them.

Zodiac was obsessed with certain movies and books of fiction. Which he quotes in his letters.

I feel that the Unabomber may have been influenced by the crimes of George Metesky (aka The Mad Bomber) and later by various environmental activists and writers which he mentions in his "manifesto".

There was a series of New York Subway bombings in the early 1960's which took place usually on weekends at a time when Ted Kaczynski was attending Harvard.

 

[Kell1]

Great post. I agree that, while there may be some (quite a few actually) similarities between the never identified Zodiac killer and UNABOM (Ted Kaczynski), there are some significant differences in MO and writing styles which tend to mark them as separate individuals.

They do share a number of psychological traits, and behaviors. Also similar disregard for their victims. Both were killers and writers who liked to taunt LE.

There are also some geographical connections (i.e. San Francisco as an aparent base), but it is the differences in MO which set them apart.

One has to wonder what previous similar crimes might have been committed by each and what might have motivated them.

Zodiac was obsessed with certain movies and books of fiction. Which he quotes in his letters.

I feel that the Unabomber may have been influenced by the crimes of George Metesky (aka The Mad Bomber) and later by various environmental activists and writers which he mentions in his "manifesto".

There was a series of New York Subway bombings in the early 1960's which took place usually on weekends at a time when Ted Kaczynski was attending Harvard.

The Metesky case, was what actually gave birth to criminal personality profiling, Dr James Brussel a psychiatrist gave a rudimentary profile of the offender that was accurate down to what he'd be wearing when caught .

SA Howard Teten of the FBI went to study Brussels methods , which was taught to the FBI as "applied Criminal psychology" which was then much further refined by the FBI (Douglas/Ressler/ Burgess etc)

It was Douglas, Ressler and Ann Burgess who did the majority of the research and development into what is now known as "profiling"

Most serial killers, (regardless of MO) do study other killers, some out of morbid fascination, some see it as a sort of competition, and some .... are looking for pointers, so id say most liely they read up on the others you listed.

Though they may model themselves after certain murderers, the psychological makeup has to be in place. Thats the old psychopath discussion, take 2 psychopaths as children, same personality traits, raise them in different households, you get 2 psychopaths, with differing motivations.

 

[Richard]

In the late 1960's and early 1970's almost all police departments used revolvers chambered in .38 special or .357 magnum. Zodiac used Automatic Pistols in all of his known attacks.

The Zodiac killer used four different semiautomatic pistols in each of his four known murders.

At Benicia, he used a .22 Auto (possibly a J. C. Higgins model 80) in December 1968,



In Vallejo, he used a 9mm Browning Hi-Power in July 1969,


Possibly a 1911 Colt .45 Auto was shown to the Lake Berryessa victims in September 1969,



and a different 9mm Browning Hi-Power was used In San Francisco to murder the cab driver in October 1969.


In other attacks and murders, thought by some to have been the work of Zodiac, there were different weapons used, but no recovered bullets from later attacks matched ballistics with any of the four original murder weapons.

 

[AC4RD]

Do you possibly know where i can find the documentary you are referencing? I had narrowed it down to 5 people I think Zodiac could possibly be and Ross Sullivan was one of them.

Several sources say Ross Sullivan was 6'2"; if that's true, Sullivan's height would (IMO at least) to make him a poor fit for other descriptions of Zodiac, wouldn't it?

I'll compress a couple of messages into one post. Item #2: I was rereading some Zodiac material recently and was caught short by this. Leigh Allen, Graysmith's suspect, was "cleared by [later] DNA analysis," according to a number of sources. But I can't find this: was the back of a stamp the only DNA source they had for known Zodiac biological material? Or were there other Zodiac tissue samples tested?

Just MHO again but if the stamp's DNA is the only source for clearing Leigh Allen, isn't that a bit thin, as evidence goes? DNA was unknown when that stamp was licked, but basic blood typing was established, I think. The Zodiac might have asked someone else to lick the stamp, as a precaution, don't you think? Or he might have picked up an envelope that was already stamped--by his mother or someone.

Third point: Thank you to Richard for the information about the handguns. Wasn't the 9mm cartridge somewhat unusual in the USA in those days?

 

[Richard]

...Third point: Thank you to Richard for the information about the handguns. Wasn't the 9mm cartridge somewhat unusual in the USA in those days?

I wouldn't say that the 9mm Luger round was rare or unusual in the US in the late 1960's. The Browning Hi-Power pistol had been around since about 1935, and was the standard Army issue sidearm in Canada through World War II. The 9mm Luger round was used in the famous German Luger pistol of World Wars One and Two, and also the round used in the P-38 and many other European pistols. Those surplus pistols were widely available in the US throughout the 1960's.

You are correct, however, to think that it was not the most popular pistol round in the US in the late 1960's and early 1970's. In fact, Revolvers chambered for .38 special, .357 magnum, and .44 magnum were favored by most handgun enthusiasts back then. Automatic Pistols made for sale in the US were more often chambered for .45 ACP, .380, .25ACP, .22 Long Rifle, or .32ACP in that time frame. Pistols in 9mm were also available, but just not as popular (in the US) as others.

Today, of course, the exact opposite is true. In 1986, the US Army transitioned to the 9mm as standard in their Berretta pistols, as did the FBI around then with their Glocks, and now most Law Enforcement agencies have automatic pistols in 9mm. A check of any gun store or catalog will show that today Automatic pistols in 9mm are the most common and most popular pistol in America. In that sense, Zodiac was a man ahead of his time.