Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

who molested/abused JB?

  • JR

    Votes: 180 27.1%
  • BR

    Votes: 203 30.6%
  • JAR

    Votes: 28 4.2%
  • a close family friend

    Votes: 41 6.2%
  • a stranger/stalker a la JMK

    Votes: 20 3.0%
  • PR-it wasn't sexual abuse,it was corporal punishment

    Votes: 89 13.4%
  • she wasn't previously abused/molested

    Votes: 103 15.5%

  • Total voters
    664
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Makes me think someone thought she was dead when they put the size 12s on her. When Patsy finished her off, her bladder released. So...

- Sexual assault
- Head bash
- Possible manual strangulation
- Redressing
- Wipe down
- Ligature strangulation

Does that make sense?
 
^ Possible, yes. Although, I wouldn't understand why they simply just wouldn't re-dress her again then (after the fact). They had already done so once already, in your scenario.

For me, it simply means she was wearing these items herself, before she was attacked. They were removed when the sexual assault and wiping occurred, then were immediately used to "re-dress" her in what she was already wearing beforehand. Then the strangulation occurred.
 
^ Possible, yes. Although, I wouldn't understand why they simply just wouldn't re-dress her again then (after the fact). They had already done so once already, in your scenario.

For me, it simply means she was wearing these items herself, before she was attacked. They were removed when the sexual assault and wiping occurred, then were immediately used to "re-dress" her in what she was already wearing beforehand. Then the strangulation occurred.

My feeling is that Burke did the redressing to cover up the bleeding from the sexual assault. The parents wiped her down and did everything after that.
 
^ I believe the parents staged the sexual assault. For me, it's too much to believe that a nine year old would be capable of all of that. Granted, there are some very smart nine year olds out there, but there are also some nine year olds who still can't tie their shoes regularly or who can't eat without leaving crumbs and greasy fingerprints everywhere.
 
IDK, I can't imagine a 9yo redressing his younger sister. In saying that though there's nothing normal about this case.

I think Patsy found JB did the wiping down/redressing. But that doesn't explain the oversized Bloomies and long johns.

Does anyone know why JB's Barbie nightie was found on/near the blanket she was wrapped in?
 
^ Some people think the blanket was in the dryer upstairs (area just outside JBR's room), and that the barbie night gown was also in the same load and clung to the blanket via static, when it was removed from the dryer (immediately before being brought downstairs to wrap JBR).

If memory serves, there was some proof that the blanket was in that particular dryer recently, but I can't recall exactly what that proof was now.
 
^ Some people think the blanket was in the dryer upstairs (area just outside JBR's room), and that the barbie night gown was also in the same load and clung to the blanket via static, when it was removed from the dryer (immediately before being brought downstairs to wrap JBR).

If memory serves, there was some proof that the blanket was in that particular dryer recently, but I can't recall exactly what that proof was now.

Ah yes, sounds like that was the case.
 
I remember reading many months ago that the Ramsey's owned a book(s) about dealing with sexual violence in children or something like that. Was this a lie or misinformation?
 
I remember reading many months ago that the Ramsey's owned a book(s) about dealing with sexual violence in children or something like that. Was this a lie or misinformation?

This is true. The books were bought by Patsy's parents for them. Some of the titles (off the top of my head) were: The Hurried Child, & Why doesn't Johnny Know Right From Wrong? I can't remember the others, maybe someone else does??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Where does the toggle rope fit into BDI? Was it used to drag JonBenet (her face had abrasions indicative of dragging)? Was it used prior to the head bash as some sort of a sex/torture device? If it was fashioned after the head bash -- why?

While Burke (or John) would have known how to fashion a toggle rope (they were both Boy Scouts), why does the forensic evidence suggest Patsy made it? Her fibers are found in the paint tote and on the rope itself in rooms associated with the murder. JonBenet also appeared to have been strangled in a prone position with her facing away from her assailant. LE felt this might be a distancing thing -- the killer couldn't bear to look at what they were doing.
 
Where does the toggle rope fit into BDI? Was it used to drag JonBenet (her face had abrasions indicative of dragging)? Was it used prior to the head bash as some sort of a sex/torture device? If it was fashioned after the head bash -- why?

While Burke (or John) would have known how to fashion a toggle rope (they were both Boy Scouts), why does the forensic evidence suggest Patsy made it? Her fibers are found in the paint tote and on the rope itself in rooms associated with the murder. JonBenet also appeared to have been strangled in a prone position with her facing away from her assailant. LE felt this might be a distancing thing -- the killer couldn't bear to look at what they were doing.
The ligature device is too simplistic, imo, to resemble a toggle rope.

We don't know if the paint brush was used during the strangulation or if it was added later as a part of the staging, which would explain PR's fibers. She might have initially started to put it back in the tray and then decided to use it in her scenario.

Other possible reasons for JB to be in the prone position could be that 1) it's an easier approach for ligature stranglulation, &/or 2) she had been rolled over during the redressing.
 
Where does the toggle rope fit into BDI? Was it used to drag JonBenet (her face had abrasions indicative of dragging)? Was it used prior to the head bash as some sort of a sex/torture device? If it was fashioned after the head bash -- why?

While Burke (or John) would have known how to fashion a toggle rope (they were both Boy Scouts), why does the forensic evidence suggest Patsy made it? Her fibers are found in the paint tote and on the rope itself in rooms associated with the murder. JonBenet also appeared to have been strangled in a prone position with her facing away from her assailant. LE felt this might be a distancing thing -- the killer couldn't bear to look at what they were doing.

AndHence,
it likely does not factor into BDI at all? Assuming the wine-cellar crime-scene was staged might alert you to the ligature *advertiser censored* paintbrush device representing staged artifact?

If the ligature plus paintbrush were already in place before Patsy arrived, then there would be no real motive to stage with it.

it might be that the ligature plus paintbrush is completely a Patsy addition to the staging, this cannot be ruled out.

Minimally BDI might be a rage assault on JonBenet including blunt force to the head, and manual strangulation, all of which leaves JonBenet barely alive?

Along come the parents and add the paintbrush with ligature, possibly assaulting her internally with the paintbrush in an attempt to simulate a sexual assault, then wiping her down.

Hopefully Meyer will do an interview some day, acknowledging the case will never see the inside of a court room, and tell us his opinion on JonBenet's internal injuries, i.e. sexual assault, staged or for real, even both?

.
 
Hopefully Meyer will do an interview some day, acknowledging the case will never see the inside of a court room, and tell us his opinion on JonBenet's internal injuries, i.e. sexual assault, staged or for real, even both?

.

That would be nice. I'd like to know if his professional opinions are the same or if they differ now, 20 years later.
 
That would be nice. I'd like to know if his professional opinions are the same or if they differ now, 20 years later.


Ambitioned,
ITA. Since he did go for a second examination of JonBenet's genitals. Athough internal injury was agreed, whether it was sexually motivated was not detailed.

.
 
I didn't see an option to vote "either JB or BR - not completely sure" but voted for BR. There was so much / is so much being covered up in this case and JB is absolutely part of that.
 
I didn't see an option to vote "either JB or BR - not completely sure" but voted for BR. There was so much / is so much being covered up in this case and JB is absolutely part of that.
JB = JonBenet. Did you mean JR?
 
This is true. The books were bought by Patsy's parents for them. Some of the titles (off the top of my head) were: The Hurried Child, & Why doesn't Johnny Know Right From Wrong? I can't remember the others, maybe someone else does??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for confirmation. I know that back in the day it was pretty common to read those (mostly terrible) parenting books, but these seem pretty oddly specific. Very much so for 9 and 6 year olds. The types of books you'd only pick up if your kid was already having problems IMO.
 
I think the book titles are far more damning than the actual content of the books. They are not about what you think they are about.
 
I think the book titles are far more damning than the actual content of the books. They are not about what you think they are about.

andreww,
In the absence of any medical opinion regarding BR's mental status. If those book titles exaggerate the contents, does this mean its really a brother on sister case gone wrong, with the parents covering it all up?

.
 
Judge for yourself what they were about or focused on.


The Hurried Child--Growing Up Too Fast, by David Elkind

https://www.amazon.com/Hurried-Child-Growing-Fast-Third/dp/0738204412

With the first two editions of this landmark work, Dr. David Elkind eloquently called our attention to the dangers of exposing our children to overwhelming pressures, pressures that can lead to a wide range of childhood and teenage crises. Internationally recognized as the voice of reason and compassion, Dr. Elkind showed that in blurring the boundaries of what is age appropriate, by expecting-or imposing-too much too soon, we force our kids to grow up far too fast.



Children at Risk, Dobson/Bauer

https://www.amazon.com/Children-at-Risk-James-Dobson/dp/0849934141


In this hard-hitting and empowering book, James Dobson and Gary Bauer expose the cultural forces endangering today's children and show what you can do to defend your family, your faith and your traditional values.


Why Johnny Can't Tell Right From Wrong, Kilpatrick

https://www.amazon.com/Johnny-Cant-Tell-Right-Wrong/dp/0671870734


America today suffers from unprecedented rates of teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, suicide, and violence. Most of the programs intended to deal with these problems have failed because, according to William Kilpatrick, schools and parents have abandoned the moral teaching they once provided.
 
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