Who screamed?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Tawny, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    (please excuse me if this has been discussed in this manner before, I didn't see anything)

    The scream heard by the neighbor... Does anyone know of anything that would confirm it was the scream of a small child and not, say, a mother discovering her small child is dead?

    It seems to be the assumption that the scream came from JonBenet, but the last couple of days has me wondering if it wasn't PR discovering JonBenet that was actually the source.
     
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  3. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    The neighbor who heard the scream was asked about this and if I recall she replied that she knew the difference between a child's scream and an adult's. However, there have been many people who think the scream may actually have been Patsy (having discovered what happened) and, while I feel the scream came from JB and prompted the head bash, I do concede that a woman's scream could possibly have been thought to be a child's.
     
  4. txsvicki

    txsvicki Active Member

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    I've wondered if it could have been JonBenet screaming while head injured, because some head injury patients scream even when seemingly unconscious.
     
  5. otg

    otg Reports of my death are greatly exagerated... but

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    The opening paragraph of the Bonita Papers is this:
    Melody Stanton aw(o)ke abruptly from a deep sleep - the prior stillness of the Boulder night ha(d) been pierced by the harrowing scream of a child. She assumed it was somewhere between midnight and 2:00 a.m., but didn’t look at the alarm clock. The scream lasted three to five seconds and stopped as abruptly as it started. Melody momentarily wondered what to do, but thought that surely the parents would hear and come to the child’s rescue. Although still bothered by the scream and the thought that a child had been injured, Melody eventually went back to sleep.
    Later, in more detail it says:
    Melody Stanton was interviewed by Det. Barry Hartkopp on January 3. Stanton lives across the street and one house to the south of the Ramseys. Her bedroom is on the second floor of the west side of the house which faces the Ramsey home. On Christmas night she had gone to bed at approximately 10:00 p.m. Stanton always sleeps with her window slightly open, and on that night she had opened it 6-8 inches. She related that she had fallen asleep shortly after she went to bed, but was awakened by “one loud, incredible scream”. She related that it was “obviously from a child” and that it lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped. It appeared that the sound came from across the street, south of the Ramsey residence. She did not look at the clock, but estimated the time at somewhere between 12:00 a.m. and 2:00 a.m. She stayed awake and listened for any other noises for five to ten minutes, but heard absolutely nothing after that no cars, no voices, no footsteps, so she eventually went back to sleep.

    Stanton said she had not left on any televisions or radios when she went to bed. She admitted that she did not sit up in bed to look out the window, so she did not see any activity outside her window. When asked why she had not come forward with this information right after the homicide when detectives had canvassed the neighborhood, Stanton said she was so shocked by JonBenet’s death that she at first did not make any connection to the scream. Also, since none of the other neighbors had not mentioned to her about hearing a scream, she began to doubt she actually heard it. In fact, when she told her husband he said she had probably imagined it. It was Diane Brumfitt, a friend of Stanton's, who reported this incident to the Boulder Police after her conversation with Stanton.
    At another point, Dr. John McCann, an expert on child sexual abuse gave the following opinion:
    McCann stated that this injury (to the hymen) would have been very painful because the area of the injury as indicated by the bruise was at the base of the hymen w(h)ere most of the nerve endings are located. Such an injury would have caused a six year old child to scream or yell.
    I understand why people can have doubts about the scream, and even whether or not it was JonBenet who screamed, or possibly Patsy (given the circumstances). Mrs. Stanton has since died. We'll never know with any more certainty about the scream than we do now. For my money, I would bet that it was JonBenet whose scream "lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped" (when she was hit over the head).
     
  6. Mountain_Kat

    Mountain_Kat Heca, firimar!

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    I don't feel the scream testimony is reliable enough to consider.
     
  7. Sandstorm

    Sandstorm Member

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    But the Scream sure does fit right into the night of panic circumstances...which is why I tend to believe it happened as the neighbor described.
    Also, she had her window open a bit, and her bedroom faced the Ramseys.
    I am in agreement with Otg that it was JB's scream and then the head bash.
     
  8. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    I absolutely believe the scream happened. I just wonder if it was the scream of a child who was just injured (plausible and likely) or of a mother discovering her deceased child (also plausible and likely).
     
  9. deca

    deca New Member

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    I find it hard to believe that the neighbor- hearing a terrifying scream in the middle of the night that kept her up for a little while- did not look at the clock!

    Most of us have clocks by our bedside table and would have looked at it sometime within the next 10 min or so.

    Not saying that the scream didn't happen- but it is just interesting. I also think it could have been an adult. Anyone who wakens suddenly by something like that might not be 100% sure about nuances like child vs adult scream.
     
  10. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    Not to mention that the brain often doesn't register sounds that wake it up properly.
     
  11. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    If you haven't looked at the autopsy photos of JB's skull, it explains a lot. One thing for sure- she would never have been able to scream after that blow, and she would have collapsed instantly.
     
  12. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    I agree 100%. She wasn't going to wake up from that, even if the strangulation hadn't happened :(
     
  13. FreeSafety36

    FreeSafety36 Another Brick in The Wall

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    A 3 to 5 second scream seems incredibly long to me...and it would have had to have been even longer, because that's what woke her up in the first place. Time it. Scream at the top of your lungs for 3 to 5 seconds. It's hard to do, especially if you've been injured immediately prior. I can't speak for everyone, but extreme pain takes my breath. I'm not sure a 6-year-old child would even have the lung capacity to hold that much air in the first place.

    As Tawny pointed out, immediately upon awakening, the brain often doesn't properly register sounds (or even images at times, in my case)...yet she not only claimed to be able to identify the sound, but also recall the duration. Again, I can't speak for everyone, but when I'm woken during the night, the first thing I do is check the clock. I'm not saying everyone does that, just that I do.

    I believe it's all together possible that after hearing about what happened to JB, Mrs. Stanton wanted to be a part of the investigation effort.
     
  14. wengr

    wengr New Member

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    Agreed. She hears a 3 - 5 second scream, described as an "incredible scream" which she attributes to a child - but then she fails to report it immediately upon hearing of the murder or JBR? This, plus the recanting, for me at least seriously calls into question the scream. This is important because so many people seemingly use the scream as one of the known events that they develop their theories and timelines around.
     
  15. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    Actually, according to what I have read, Mrs. Stanton was asked why she didn't call police right away after hearing the scream. She said that she didn't want to get involved. She also said that she figured that if the scream was loud enough for her to hear and wake her up, the parents or whoever was in that house had to have heard it themselves.
    She was so shook up by it all that she moved away shortly after. I hadn't heard that she died, though. I knew neighbor Joe Barnhill (who had the Rs dog Jacques that night, as he was keeping him while they were away, had passed away as did his wife, I think.
     
  16. lawstudent

    lawstudent New Member

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    Yeah, the scream thing throws me off. People always suggest someone bashed her because she screamed - I always thought that pretty wild speculation. That was a hard head bash, and I'd think the reflex would be more to cover her mouth or strangle her or something, not hit her that hard with an object apparently already in the person's hand. Possible, but I think people's fixation on the scream causes them to ignore other possibilities. If she was actually awoken by the scream, there is no way it would go on that long. She'd have to have heard multiple screams. I've been woken up by my upstairs neighbors many times, but it's always a series of noises I then realize must have been going on for a while. Multiple screams could also make sense, but it just seems pretty questionable that the scream is related to the case.
     
  17. ATasteOfHoney

    ATasteOfHoney Active Member

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    Do we know if it was one steady long scream or a series of scream-bursts?



    One steady scream for that long is odd. I would think that is "blood-curdling".


    Streams of rapid-fire screams would seem more common, eh?


    If I think deeply into the types of screams, it does seem that different situations create different scream-types of reactions.
     
  18. Mountain_Kat

    Mountain_Kat Heca, firimar!

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    Exactly.
     
  19. wengr

    wengr New Member

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    From the Bonita Papers-
    It was Diane Brumfitt, a friend of Stanton's, who reported this incident to the Boulder Police after her conversation with Stanton.

    So, in the wake of a murdered neighbor child, Mrs Stanton does not contact authorities with this information, but does tell the story to a friend? A story of such import that the friend knows enough to contact authorities. It suggests to me that possibly Mrs. Stanton was trying impress a friend with a fabrication, and then she found herself in a spot when the friend unexpectedly conveyed it to police.
    I'm not saying that the scream did not happen, just that imo it should not be taken for granted.
     
  20. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    I agree with that, wengr.
     
  21. FreeSafety36

    FreeSafety36 Another Brick in The Wall

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    Thanks for posting this, I didn't know that the scream was reported through a third party. That makes it even more sketchy than I'd originally thought.

    Like you, I'm not saying there was no scream. I have no idea whether there was or not, but the more I learn about this one particular report of a scream, the less inclined I am to believe it.

    Obviously I didn't know the lady personally, but with people in general, it's not uncommon for someone who was in the vicinity of an event, especially a traumatic event, to remember things after the fact that turn out to have never happened...and I don't even think they're lying or fabricating a story, it could just be a false memory.

    I'll say it's possible there was a scream, and it's possible there wasn't; it's also possible that Mrs. Stanton heard a scream, and it's possible that she didn't. Considering everything about her report of a scream, I can't accept that report alone as proof that a scream ever occurred. However, as we all know, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
     

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