Why doesn't CPS take away the minor children?

[NancyA]

I agree. I'd like to add that many cases do not include removing the children. Sometimes child services offer a case plan for the parent to complete while the children stay in the home. For instance, alcohol evaluations and therapy. Once complete the case closes. But, while it's ongoing the children are visited and interviewed regularly

Well said. I think this is the way it should be handled in cases where there is no evidence of physical abuse and/or deprivation stemming from the dependency issues of the parents rather than a rush to remove the children.

 

[mck16]

Honestly...this is all O/T. However, I will say that if she did black out, she's lucky because her child is still with her.

You are right she is lucky. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that she didn't black out though. The point I was trying to make was that no one in that house heard anything and they all weren't drunk. Now if more comes out in the interview with the boys that will definitly be something to be explained. jmo

 

[CHICANA]

I couldn't find a thread where this should specifically be, so please feel free to move if there is a better place.

I am really surprised that with all that is going on, that these boys have not been removed from the home. I would think that it would be helpful to LE as well in getting them access to the children for interview, etc. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Children aren't supposed to be removed from homes to benefit LE.

 

[Sherbie]

I apologize for making assumptions (just jumping off this post), I am just SO frustrated. One thing I hate most is when people are so judgemental and , as I see it, holier-than-thou)

I have lost a child. When the police investigated my daughters' death, they would have called CPS immediately and had my other children removed from my care based on what I have seen posted about assumptions on Deborahs parenting. And no, I was not drunk on the night of her death nor did I drink on a regular basis. Actually she didn't die at home anyways, but you get what Im saying(I hope)

Sorry, I have just learned in the years since my childs death to be a little more compassionate and not so judgemental of others. That's just how I feel.

ALso sorry if this is O/T for this thread.

I'm so sorry your precious girl was taken from you. :hug:

 

[raeann]

Simply stated, they don't have enough. I know that offends a lot of people, but it is what it is. If they jump the gun, or treat them more aggressively than the standard dictates, they can be sued for damages.

They have to show that (regardless of her sobriety) she made a decision that (as a result) caused harm to come to Lisa. Like it or not, alcohol is legal and there are no limits on how much a parent can or can't drink. Also, they have no proof of patterned neglect.

In addition to that, there is little evidence of "imminent danger" applying to the wellbeing of the boys.

We could debate this all day. It's not enough. But she ADMITTED she was drunk. But they need to show HOW she is directly or indirectly endangered her daughter, not just that her drunken state may have contribute to harm. But she ADMITTED she 'may have been' passed out. It's circular.

With FBI and LE on this, they aren't going to jump ahead of normal procedure- and they aren't going to ignore it if there is legal reason to remove the kids. They can't just take kids, they have to weigh if it would hold up in court or be considered overly aggressive.

PS- if parading your kids in front of media is enough, then we need to get some celebrities locked up! (light-hearted, I understand the implied sentiment)

ETA- even if they were to be taken from DB, they could be put in the care of JI or grandparents. Not much would change.

:great:
ahhh YES....parading your kids in front of a camera to make money....well, then Brad and Angie, Tom and Katie, Madonna, ummmm NANCY GRACE and it goes on and on........

 

[CHICANA]

Well said. I think this is the way it should be handled in cases where there is no evidence of physical abuse and/or deprivation stemming from the dependency issues of the parents rather than a rush to remove the children.

I don't think parents should agree to a case plan when there is no evidence of abuse. Make them take you to court & prove their case

 

[norest4thewicked]

Please...guys...I don't want this thread to be locked. Let's stay on topic here.

 

[ynotdivein]

We're doing ok in here so far... I'd like to hear more from some of our posters who have worked in the CPS system in MO or other states, or had other experiences with these agencies.

Also, recognizing that this topic is pretty emotional, remember that keeping "you" and "I" out of posts will help keep the conversation to the facts as we know them and reduce the chance of posters getting into personal confrontations here. Which is a good thing. Because while we might disagree on small matters, we all agree on one thing: bringing Baby Lisa home.

Where this post falls is random, and :tyou:

 

[norest4thewicked]

My son-in-law is a CPS worker in Nebraska, so I do know a very little bit about some of the things that they do. I did ask him about this case and I really can't even post what he said. But, I'd like to hear from MO CPS also to get their opinions. We have had a couple of CPS people up thread give opinions on this.

 

[raeann]

It should be noted that Jeremy reported that he was scheduled to be off work by 10pm....so DB had every reason to believe at 10:30 that he would be home at any minute to also be there for the kids. Not being a drinker myself, I would never say that it was to be excused, but she did believe he was going to be home soon. She didn't pass out on the front steps or the kitchen floor.....she got all the kids in bed and went there herself.

 

[flipflop]

What reason would CPS have to take the kids away?????????? From the facts that I know of this case, I see no reason for CPS to take the boys away.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

I haven't seen any reason whatsoever for CPS to take the other children.

I agree.

 

[Melanie]

What reason would CPS have to take the kids away?????????? From the facts that I know of this case, I see no reason for CPS to take the boys away.

1. drinking to a stage of black out drunk.
2. admitting to drinking 2-3 times per week
3. not locking front door
4. not closing window
5. putting a sick child to bed at 6:40 PM, checking on her once, and not remembering to check on her again.
6. 10 month old child kidnapped from home

Each one individually doesn't warrant removal. However, combined, adds up to much more than reasonable removal IMHO. Add to that a child kidnapped (by the parents account) from the home during this time increases the reasonibility factor. I would expect simple safety measures to be applied while caring for your children (ie, locking door and windows).

My opinion only. Thank you.

Mel

 

[gwenabob]

They can't just take kids out of a home without proving those children are in danger.

I see no reason at this point to take the children. Nothing has been proven yet.

CPS takes children out of homes before allegations are "proven" all the time. They can't just leave endangered children in an abusive home until the case goes through the court system. That would never work. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[not_my_kids]

1. drinking to a stage of black out drunk.
2. admitting to drinking 2-3 times per week
3. not locking front door
4. not closing window
5. putting a sick child to bed at 6:40 PM, checking on her once, and not remembering to check on her again.
6. 10 month old child kidnapped from home

Each one individually doesn't warrant removal. However, combined, adds up to much more than reasonable removal IMHO. Add to that a child kidnapped (by the parents account) from the home during this time increases the reasonibility factor. I would expect simple safety measures to be applied while caring for your children (ie, locking door and windows).

My opinion only. Thank you.

Mel

The problem with this is that you can go on national TV and say that you worship Satan, drink the blood of innocents, sell your children by the hour and dance naked with them under the harvest moon, and CPS still has to prove it. It's not a crime to lie on TV. It's not a crime to lie on TV about what you tell LE. Therefore, you can tell the news that you told LE that you were black out drunk, and it's proof of nothing. Drinking 2-3 times a week, when there is a perfectly suitable other parent in the home, (as JI was every night but the one in question) is not illegal, abusive or neglectful, in the eyes of most courts. Not locking the door, okay, that's iffy, and if one of the kids had been found wandering the neighborhood, yeah, that's a case. But that didn't happen. Not locking a window, well, for that, CPS better come get my kids, as they are at risk...and so are just about everyone else's for that reason. And being the victim of a crime, which the parents are at this point, at least until LE brings some charges, does not equal being abusive or neglectful.

Just my opinion.

 

[jjenny]

Yea, the kid hasn't been found wandering the neighborhood. She is gone and no one seem to know where she is.

 

[Abby Normal]

DB was the caregiver on that evening.

IF the caregiver was a babysitter and the same scenario.....the irresponsible, drunken, blacked-out sitter would likely be arrested immediately for child endangerment.

That's what I mean when I say that parents are held to a lower standard.

They are! In simplest terms, a mother can spank. A babysitter can not. They have different "rights" when it comes to said child. But they should. That's right and appropriate. My babysitter does not have equal rights in determining what is in the best interest of my child. In any direction.

 

[flipflop]

1. drinking to a stage of black out drunk.
2. admitting to drinking 2-3 times per week
3. not locking front door
4. not closing window
5. putting a sick child to bed at 6:40 PM, checking on her once, and not remembering to check on her again.
6. 10 month old child kidnapped from home

Each one individually doesn't warrant removal. However, combined, adds up to much more than reasonable removal IMHO. Add to that a child kidnapped (by the parents account) from the home during this time increases the reasonibility factor. I would expect simple safety measures to be applied while caring for your children (ie, locking door and windows).

My opinion only. Thank you.

Mel

Obviously if CPS had a reason to take the boys away, they would have already. They are with their parents, therefore, they have NO reason to take them away.

 

[amydew51]

Hi,
I just joined the forums so I could post on this. I have been lurking on this site since a few days after Lisa went missing. I do not watch the news, but get all of my news from the internet, so I came upon this site when googling what Starbucks JI was working on.

I live in KC. I am a stay at home mom to a 3 1/2 year old and 7 month old. I have a masters in counseling psychology and was a high school counselor for 4 years, and a parent educator to low income families for 2 years.

CPS is called DFS(Dept of Family Services) or DSS (dept of Social Services) in MO. I have hotlined mutiple familes. DFS RARELY takes children away in our area. When I was a counselor, I had several students that had marks on their bodies from parents - one child was beaten with a broom. He was not taken away. I would hotline, sit in while the social worker interviewed them, and then the social worker would just come up with a plan on how they could stay safe if needed.

As a parent educator, I was in AWFUL homes. I actually quit because I did not feel safe. Cigarette butts on the floor with crawling babies, awful diaper rashes, parents with no teeth because they are on meth, etc. One family I hotlined because they were on meth. They had 4 young daughters. There was poop on the walls. Neighbors said baby would cry all day, and she left the baby and a toddler in a play yard all day while she got high in the garage. One time I thought that toddler had just had a bath, because her hair looked wet. Turns out it was so greasy and dirty, it looked wet. DFS did not take the kids away. Several months later the police arrested them for drugs, THEN the kids were taken away. IMO, parents have to be arrested or a child has to sexually abused for a child to get taken away here.

Kids are not taken away because the parents drink, even if they are alcoholics. With my experience, I almost want to laugh when I see the reasons for why they think the kids should be taken away. Very minor in the real world. DB did get drunk, but it's not like she passed out while the kids were awake. My dh and I have sat on our deck and both drank enough to get pretty tipsy while the kids were asleep. They sleep through the night, I don't think that is a big deal.

A couple more points - I am a heavy sleeper. I do not hear my husband come in sometimes if I am asleep, my 3 year old does not wake up, and I do not hear our alarm beeping. Also, my baby goes to bed between 6:30 and 7 pm every night and sleeps until 7 am. Many sleep books suggest an early bedtime. I have a baby monitor, and I do not check on her otherwise. If she had a cold or a cough, honestly I don't know if I would check on her as long as I could hear her on the monitor, especially if it were something she had had a few days. I wouldn't want to wake her up. But, my baby has not been sick yet, and my 3 year old is rarely sick, so I am not an expert on that.

I am on the fence, but just thought you might be interested in my thoughts!

 

[Nixie]

I can say from personal experience that CPS does not always pull a child from a home when heavy drinking on a regular basis is involved. My dad was a heavy drinker and my grandma called CPS they came and interviewed me they asked 3 questions
Do you have access to food when you are hungry?
Do you have access to shelter
Any physical/sexual abuse

Because my answer was I had shelter, food and i was not beaten or sexually abused the case was closed. It didn't matter that my dad drank all the time because it wasn't enough to remove me from the home. My grandparents tried so hard to get me from my dads care and it was always the same I wasn't being abused therefore I wasn't removed from the home.Not saying I agree but just saying its not enough. I am not sure if this vary s by state, county or whatever but where I lived they just opened and after 90 days closed the case. I talked to them one time and my dad spoke to them once. He even admitted he drank so it wasn't like they thought it was a lie, he might not have told them how often, but he did say he drank more then 3 times a week at home and that he was the only one taking care of me. They didn't consider it neglect or abuse, they just didn't really even seem to care.