GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

I think state knows their case is very weak at this point, to have added ALL the lesser charges they did.
They realized those kids ALL lied. They didn't do enough investigation and took them at their work in the beginning. and i fully believe the 'group' got together to come up with their stories for court. I don't think it will happen, but i hope they have learned something from this trial. I still saw them on the stand with attitudes that i feel they should NOT be so confidently putting out there, especially in this situation. I wonder if ANY of their parents see an issue with their 'kids' now.

At this point i'm still thinking hung jury or a compromise with the reckless is they go too long. Had NM NOT lied and been up front right away, he'd walk. His lies will get him convicted.
 
So many lies in this case, both sides! The one saving grace is the video - that does not lie. However, as someone mentioned yesterday, the video w/o sound does not provide the full effect of the terror NM must have felt when it was happening.
 
Apart from ruling out the 1st degree intentional counts, I'm still hopelessly on the fence! It's not often I get to this stage of following a trial where I'm this uncertain about the outcome of a case.

These closing arguments could genuinely sway my opinion one way or another.
 
Sorry, I have not studied the video and placed names with faces...

So they guy that died is not the one that got stabbed in the abdomen, correct?

When was the guy who died stabbed in relation to the one stabbed in the abdomen?
That's correct. AJ was disemboweled. Isaac had, according to testimony, 2 ribs cut clean through as he stabbed him in the heart. moo
 
I think state knows their case is very weak at this point, to have added ALL the lesser charges they did.
They realized those kids ALL lied. They didn't do enough investigation and took them at their work in the beginning. and i fully believe the 'group' got together to come up with their stories for court. I don't think it will happen, but i hope they have learned something from this trial. I still saw them on the stand with attitudes that i feel they should NOT be so confidently putting out there, especially in this situation. I wonder if ANY of their parents see an issue with their 'kids' now.

At this point i'm still thinking hung jury or a compromise with the reckless is they go too long. Had NM NOT lied and been up front right away, he'd walk. His lies will get him convicted.

Lying to the police is not a chargeable offense, correct?

It does show deception on the defendant's part but not sure that really matters in this case where we have a video.
 
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2.5 times the legal limit in a 17 year old? Even an adult with a fully developed brain would have trouble being a reasonable person at that level. I brought up why you need alcohol earlier in the thread and people were saying oh you just have alcohol on a float. 100% this situation doesn't happen if there was no alcohol involved. Parents need to explain to their kids this is what can happen when you heavily binge drink, especially in the sun all day
 
I disagree. I see these as intentional acts on NM's part.

Me being (what I think is) an objective person, I am still on the fence. However, I would lean 60% to an acquittal due to plenty of reasonable doubt. But I have only watched the video and read some stuff here and do not know the exact law that the jury is trying to decide on.

Again, I'll bet those jurors are as conflicted as most of us seem to be. This is not a clear cut
 
It is in England. It's called "Perverting the course of justice."

Jussie Smollett was charged with "disorderly conduct" for lying to police in Chicago?

Misdemeanor. But that one had $$$$$ implications due to the wild goose chase they had police go on for the lie.

In general, I think you can lie to anyone... but not in court or in a sworn document.
 
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Why lie unless you have something to hide?

Not sure how the jury will rule. The Jury have a tough job - this is a difficult one. Their service is commended no matter the outcome. The video will be the deciding factor? idk

The attacks were vicious - mean spirited and appeared deliberate (not in self-defense) - so much that Isaac was killed.

NM on a mission to see how many he could wipe out? idk


Isaac Schulman deserves justice. -- No speculation

All of this is an opinion, speculation.
 
100% agree. Unfortunately his sentiment shows only that Eric is an upstanding gentleman and human being. Eric, this man, seems to be the ONLY one who can see the big picture and notices how an older male entering the sphere of a bunch of young fit males in bathing suits could be perceived poorly.

Eric's the only one wise enough to see the percieved intention here. It's not that Eric suspects NM, but knows that, as a male, his actions could be seen this way. Too bad no one paid Eric any attention on this. To me it seems the need to be a bit macho (or "hero", to be the guy who saved the day by finding the lost cell phone) among the group of older couples was more important to NM.

By Miu's own words, he swam back and forth by the teens, I believe this was a provocation. I think Miu did not like the river filled with rowdy drunk teens. In his own words "If I am a pedophile, why are you drinking?". What has one to do with the other?

I am not saying Miu was a pedophile, but I do think he went over there to teach them a lesson.

Miu grabbed their tubs and one boy's leg that was what escalated the whole thing.
 
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I am so vested in these closing arguments. They could really impact how the jury swings, I don’t think I’ve followed a case where I feel like it could really go either way(maybe the Holly Bobo case), and I think it really will come down to who does a better closing.
 
Why lie unless you have something to hide?

Not sure how the jury will rule. The Jury have a tough job - this is a difficult one. Their service is commended no matter the outcome. The video will be the deciding factor? idk

The attacks were vicious - mean spirited and appeared deliberate (not in self-defense) - so much that Isaac was killed.

NM on a mission to see how many he could wipe out? idk


Isaac Schulman deserves justice. -- No speculation


All of this is an opinion, speculation.

From what little I know about the law, as an example, if 4 people come in to rob you and only one had a gun (or otherwise attacks you with a weapon or deadly force), you have every right to shoot every single one of them. Who has time or inclination at a chaotic time like that to determine if anyone else has a gun or not? They are considered a group as one single entity.

I don't know if it will apply in this case...but if they are near him, were they participating by just proximity? I would love to see the actual law and any (close) precedences set.

I could see the jury going either way. It all boils down to the law and what is and what is not allowed for self defense.
 
I really wish NM hadn't used the "I can't remember" defense for everything that covered all of his lies, but remembered perfectly everything that happened. He should have just said - hey - I lied because I thought no one would believe me. Because I thought it would be my word against everyone else there and I would get arrested. I still think it doesn't matter in a legal sense, but it definitely impacts the rest of his believability.

Also-does anyone know/understand the situation with his divorce?
 
Who is this Eric guy? Sounds like someone a little older and wiser than the kids who maybe didn't have as much to drink.

Eric is the black older man that was part of Miu group. The one one that was honest on the stand from that group. He was on stand early. And admits the whole group saw the teens and AGREED as a group not to go by them. So can anyone give me a good reason why Miu took off toward the teens??
 
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