GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

What you are referring to as the second video at 37;26 is actually a clip of the video I posted. If you watch the video I posted you’ll see at 0:33ish is what you are referring to as the second video. There is no second video….at trial they played a clip and it looks like another video, but it’s just a clip of the only video. Nobody was stabbed at this point.

(bolded by me)
From what I've seen, there are two videos, which the jurors asked to be replayed today:
9 second video: Starts at 5:46 in the linked video. Yells can be heard "grown man wants to have sex with little girls" "watch out" "he's a raper", NM is walking away from them and turns around at the same time that someone says "he's a raper". It ends with the camera panning down to what looks like Jawahn's leg.
Main video: Starts at 6:47 in the linked video. I think it looks like it takes place very shortly after the 9 second video. NM is walking toward Isaac's group and then sort of lunges at the tubes and the boys in the tubes. There is a small scuffle and eventually the Carlson group joins. The situation continues to escalate until NM allegedly hits Madison which triggers a physical altercation which is hard to process in real time in the video. After a few seconds, Jawahn (filming) realizes the severity of the situation and, for lack of a better term, starts freaking out before the video ends.

Could you share a source that has them in one video, or that says they were a part of the same recording? I've watched the one you're linking, and it does not contain the part with NM walking away from the group while Isaac's group yells.
 
I’m completely torn on this one. I can see where NM could have and should have walked away at the start. I can also see how things escalated very quickly and he didn’t have time to think straight. After NM was knocked down in the river, hit, outnumbered and continued to be heckled I can see how he could be in fear of great bodily harm in that situation. However, I’m not convinced he didn’t snap or if his actions were justified or not. I definitely wouldn’t go with 1st degree intentional homicide. jmo
 
I think that all of us, had we found ourselves in the same situation as this man, would be afraid. We can feel sorry for the 17 year old who died, and the others who were injured, but what outcome did they expect?

Did they think they'd have a bit of fun and then resume tubing down the river? It doesn't seem like it. Their cry of "for the culture" seems to be significant because it speaks to the tribe; the gang, about rallying together for common values.

Could Nicolae have walked away after being publicly accused of criminal sexual offences against children? Doesn't that sort of accusation get everyone's attention?

The drunk stoned young men got his attention. Then what? They wanted him to focus on them? That happened, one way or another.
 
(bolded by me)
From what I've seen, there are two videos, which the jurors asked to be replayed today:
9 second video: Starts at 5:46 in the linked video. Yells can be heard "grown man wants to have sex with little girls" "watch out" "he's a raper", NM is walking away from them and turns around at the same time that someone says "he's a raper". It ends with the camera panning down to what looks like Jawahn's leg.
Main video: Starts at 6:47 in the linked video. I think it looks like it takes place very shortly after the 9 second video. NM is walking toward Isaac's group and then sort of lunges at the tubes and the boys in the tubes. There is a small scuffle and eventually the Carlson group joins. The situation continues to escalate until NM allegedly hits Madison which triggers a physical altercation which is hard to process in real time in the video. After a few seconds, Jawahn (filming) realizes the severity of the situation and, for lack of a better term, starts freaking out before the video ends.

Could you share a source that has them in one video, or that says they were a part of the same recording? I've watched the one you're linking, and it does not contain the part with NM walking away from the group while Isaac's group yells.
The video where I was saying it was part of the same recording was a different conversation. That video was snipped and presented in a different order. I think that’s where the lines are getting crossed and where the confusion is coming into play on this topic. Also…..it’s probably me not being able to articulate clearly.

The 5 second video where the young males yell at NM starts at 3:13 in this video. There was no contact in this one only name calling/heckling from the young males to NM.


This video is 10 seconds after the 5 second video above and this one is where NM makes first contact.
 
WARNING - Graphic

This video breaks it all down. After watching this I’ve officially jumped to Guilty.
Unfortunately, that video is age restricted, which means that the only way to view it is with a youtube account. Not everyone has an account.

What does the video say that throws someone off the fence?
 
We should just be super relieved that the jury is NOT allowed to watch YouTube true crime "content creators" while they're in deliberation.

It's bad enough it seemed like ALL the witnesses had already watched/ seen videos ABOUT the incident.

I just listened to the bit from yesterday about the backup juror who was seen by someone dozing off during about an hour of the day. Sheeeeeesh.

@otto, it's Grey Hughes telling us his opinion. He says NM stabbed people but took the knife out when he felt threatened.
He replays Jawaon's video, pauses it, and says NM lost his snorkel, acknowledges the knife was on his person. Gray shows no knife in his hand until more people show up and it's right as NM looks up at everyone. He pauses video right as AJ is stabbed, shows RM checking her stab wound, and the shrieks as Jawaon realises Isaac is dead.

Gray doesn't explain much, not much insight, IMO.

"You can see the water is filled with blood there"
You don't see Isaac stabbed on the screen.

A lot of "yeah we know" moments to me, but that's Gray Hughes.
 
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We should just be super relieved that the jury is NOT allowed to watch YouTube true crime "content creators" while they're in deliberation.

It's bad enough it seemed like ALL the witnesses had already watched/ seen videos ABOUT the incident.

I just listened to the bit from yesterday about the backup juror who was seen by someone dozing off during about an hour of the day. Sheeeeeesh.

@otto, it's Grey Hughes telling us his opinion. He says NM stabbed people but took the knife out when he felt threatened.
He replays Jawaon's video, pauses it, and says NM lost his snorkel, acknowledges the knife was on his person. Gray shows no knife in his hand until more people show up and it's right as NM looks up at everyone. He pauses video right as AJ is stabbed, shows RM checking her stab wound, and the shrieks as Jawaon realises Isaac is dead.

Gray doesn't explain much, not much insight, IMO.

"You can see the water is filled with blood there"
You don't see Isaac stabbed on the screen.

A lot of "yeah we know" moments to me, but that's Gray Hughes.
I started carrying a Swiss Army knife when I was 14 years old. It travelled the world with me until one day I was subjected to a thorough search at the Amsterdam Airport because I insisted on checking my luggage and knife rather than give it up and get on the plane. It's always with me.

Some people carry a knife, especially people who have travelled in foreign countries for months over years, used it to carve cheese and bread and the top off a wine bottle. Some people carry a swiss army knife.

Nicolae most certainly did not bring a weapon to the Apple River with the intent to stab drunks.
 
The jury is made up of eight men and six women. Here is the age breakdown:
  • Two jurors in their 20s
  • One juror in their 30s
  • Three jurors in their 40s
  • Three jurors in their 50s
  • One juror in their 60s
  • Three jurors in their 70s
  • One juror in their 90s
Who was sleeping, and who thinks that this might be a deadlocked hung jury where age 20-40 think the 52 year old over-reacted, and age 50-90 think the man had a right to defend himself?

 
this case makes me despair about where our society is going.

Not a single logical sane person in sight. Embarrassing.

Drunk in public and yelling at strangers.

Placing yourself in a hostile situation for clout.

Approaching a violate situation with no regard to who may be carrying what.

Did those boys even have a sober friend? A sober driver to take them home?

Thank god no children witnessed this.
 
@EmilyDillon2020 - the only person with rationale I followed was Eric Von Williams, his testimony is posted somewhere above. He was a plus one of the Miu party, met him on the day of the trip. It's worth listening to him.

Link to his testimony
Eric's the one who was quoted after the incident that he saw NM approaching who he thought was teens and thought it was a potentially not good situation for an old dude to approach a bunch of young presumably drunk boys. "We wanted to stay as far away from them as possible..... I didn't want anyone to think he (NM) was up to no good." At around 11:40.

@otto the juror they described as sleeping was an alternate. We don't know age but I'm guessing 55+.

 
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"Wisconsin state law allows deadly force only if "necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.".

That is significant. If we have to interpret NM actions, in comparison with the law in Wisconsin, I think that NM has a problem here. Especially since the jury keeps reviewing the videos.
But see, I think it can go either way. One guy being pushed into the water by an angry mob of young men. He could easily say he had fear of death or harm.
 
WARNING - Graphic

This video breaks it all down. After watching this I’ve officially jumped to Guilty.

Not me. Watching it gives me anxiety thinking if I was NM being pushed down in the water repeatedly by a gang of men. He didn’t have a chance to defend himself so he uses his knife?
 
Not me. Watching it gives me anxiety thinking if I was NM being pushed down in the water repeatedly by a gang of men. He didn’t have a chance to defend himself so he uses his knife?
So 'why didn't he shout 'back off, or I'll stab you!' and point his weapon before slashing and stabbing 5 folks??

Wouldn't someone using a firearm for self defence point and warn first? Or is it ok to just shoot? How is the knife different in this case? JMO
 
So 'why didn't he shout 'back off, or I'll stab you!' and point his weapon before slashing and stabbing 5 folks??

Wouldn't someone using a firearm for self defence point and warn first? Or is it ok to just shoot? How is the knife different in this case? JMO
I don’t know any of those answers. I think it’s difficult to make sense out of it. They were all drunk.

Why the heck did he walk up to them and start oddly looking thru the water for the phone? Why not say hey my friend lost his phone near here, have you seen it? Why even care more about your friends phone than apparently the friend who lost it? Why not walk away when you could see it was a bunch of drunk teens?
 
So 'why didn't he shout 'back off, or I'll stab you!' and point his weapon before slashing and stabbing 5 folks??

Wouldn't someone using a firearm for self defence point and warn first? Or is it ok to just shoot? How is the knife different in this case? JMO
If he felt imminent threat, he may have lashed out defensively without thinking to shout a warning.

And if he had warned them, how do you think the mob would have reacted? I doubt they would have backed off, IMO.
 
He doesn't have to warn them that he has a weapon to defend himself.

What if he warned them then they all jumped him and beat the living crap out of him and maybe even drowned him because then they would have an excuse to defend themselves.

Like I said before, neither party was 100% right or 100% wrong.
 
APPLE RIVER STABBING TRIAL: Parties are back in court this AM. Jury wants to re-watch the Jawahn Cockfield cell phone video of the deadly encounter-- specifically 10 seconds before the confrontation b/w Nicolae Miu & Madison Coen. Our @FOX9 live coverage:


OKTZHn6Z




 

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