Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

[Cazzie]

Maybe it wasn't an accident? Suppose he stole the car to go see Lauri, then called her from a pay phone but she rebuffed him.

Or maybe he was one of those people who love to drive fast, for the thrill, and he simply lost control of the car.

 

[Cubby]

He was being chased by police when he crashed the car. My guess is he thought he could out run the cop and get away, especially since police reports indicate it was foggy. The officer did not see the crash occur but followed the tire marks to the cars location.

The 4am time is odd. IIRC that meant he stole the car at appx 3am? Do we know that time the cars owner reported it stolen? I seem to have forgotten if that was posted.

I think it is possible this UID was released from the cty jail the evening of the 13th. Took the train into Gurnee. I doubt trains run between say midnight and 3 am so it is likely he road until the end of the line. Not wishing to wait possibly several hours to the earliest morning trains he stole a bike and then the car when the opportunity presented itself with a then 15 yr old car. (IMO, a car thief would go for a newer car. Stealing a 15 yr old car doesn't seem to me to fit into what I might expect as a usual car of choice from someone who routinely stoled cars. Which is why I think this particular car was stolen not because his plan was to look for a car to steal, but when he stumbled across this one the opportunity presented itself.)

I would love to know the address from which the car was stolen. Not the exact address for obvious privacy reasons of the current owner, but the 100 block so we could perhaps see the location the car was stolen in relation to either a train station in Gurnee or how close to business rather than residential locations. Now if the car was stolen from in the middle of a residential neighborhood not near main roads a business district or the train - then that would lead me to believe his ties were closer to the Gurnee area than just passing through.

I hope that makes sense..... more thinking outloud. masnitarm, can see if the detective can share the 100 block of the address the car was stolen?

tia

 

[Cubby]

Also curious about where LE first spotted the car. Was he chased from Gurnee into WI or was he first spotted already in WI? That might also help with tying a possible location.

tia

 

[Cubby]

masnitram - I just wanted to thank you for the awesome job you are doing on this case! You've been able to provide some excellent info to help id this JD.

thanks again! The thank you button just wasn't enough.

Cubby

 

[Cubby]

I spent the last couple of days working on a facial reconstruction for this John Doe.

There will probably be additional revisions, but I got the resemblance close enough to put up on this thread.

Great job Carl! Can you do a side by side with the morgue photo and add it via link? I'd like to see the side by side before offering any thoughts on your recon.

thank you.

 

[CarlK90245]

Great job Carl! Can you do a side by side with the morgue photo and add it via link? I'd like to see the side by side before offering any thoughts on your recon.

thank you.

I did a few minor revisions (eye color, and bottom of his nose) since I posted it two days ago.

And here is the side-by-side with the postmortems:

*** WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTOS AT LINK ****
Delafield John Doe

 

[TechWriter797]

If the library books belonged to the John Doe, it makes me wonder why LE didn't track down the library and who had taken out those books at the time.

If he stole a car, then he probably stole the library books, too. Easy to do in those days.

 

[masnitram]

masnitram - I just wanted to thank you for the awesome job you are doing on this case! You've been able to provide some excellent info to help id this JD.

thanks again! The thank you button just wasn't enough.

Cubby

Much appreciated Cubby!

I will be sure to ask in the follow up if I can get the street/block from where the car was stolen.

From what I was told JD was spotted by a Waukesha County Sheriffs Deputy who was parked along the shoulder on 1-94. What caught the officers attention was that the headlights were dim and considering the cold and foggy conditions the officer flipped on his lights in an attempt to pull him over. Due to the fog the officer wasn't able to determine the car was stolen until after JD rolled the vehicle; all that was spotted was the vehicle had Illinois tags initially. Apparently as soon as the officer put his lights on our JD gunned it and began to flee...he wasn't speeding when spotted. It was shortly after when JD exited I-94 onto Golf Rd near Delafield. Basically JD missed the sharp, nearly 90-degree curve(about 1 mile from the highway off ramp) and exited the road and rolled the vehicle several times in the nearby field which was bordered heavily by "wilderness". JD was ejected from the vehicle and was found about 25 feet from where the vehicle was found.

 

[Cubby]

Thank you. I'm confused. At what time was the vehicle reported stolen? Was it later that morning after the accident occured? how are we determining the one hour time window from which the car was stolen until the time it was found? I'm assuming the driving distance between Gurnee and Delafield is one hour?

If the accident occured at 4 am I'm assuming the owner of the vehicle would have still been sleeping and not reported his car stolen until later that morning when he awoke.

Just trying to understand the known/confirmed by LE timeline of events....

and you are very welcome masnitram. You're doing an excellent job on this case. I can't wait to hear the feedback from the detective on our theory regarding the DPC jail.

 

[Cubby]

I did a few minor revisions (eye color, and bottom of his nose) since I posted it two days ago.

And here is the side-by-side with the postmortems:

*** WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTOS AT LINK ****
Delafield John Doe

Carl, with the postmortem I'm seeing a bit of a bump in the nose (3/4's or so from the tip) which doesn't appear to be a result of the accident - unless they covered up bruising? also, I think the tip of his nose might not be so round but more pointy? Do you see that? Not trying to be critical of your work I'm just trying to see if that might make it look a little more accurate. At least the nose area as I think this young man has distinctive features with the nose. I think you've captured the rest very well.

thanks!

 

[Cubby]

Gosh, I wonder if the 1977 owners or any of the employees of the RV place were ever contacted by LE. It seems to me if he had the business card, he had to have obtained it somehow.

of course in the initial stages of the investigation. I don't know how much information the former owners or former employees could offer 33 years later. Though if the JD was well known by one of the owners or former employees perhaps that might help even 33 years later.

just thinking outloud. I so hope this guy is id'd.

 

[Cubby]

Another thought. Maybe a long shot...

This JD has been missing since 77. John Wayne Gacy's run was between 72 and 78. His crimes being discovered in 78. It kind of makes me wonder if perhaps this young mans family was looking for him even though there might not be a missing persons report and happened to call the Cook Cty coroners office inquiring if perhaps their family member, this JD, was a possible victim of Gacy's. While we know he was not - perhaps there might be notes in the detectives file about Gacy from a family member asking about their son or brother John? If in fact this UID's name is John.

I wonder if it might be worth the detective currently working the UID case to put a call into Cook Cty and inquire if perhaps notes in the file might be from a family member looking for their son/brother John. I think there might be a possiblity notes from Gacy's file are still around somewhere since we know not all of Gacy's victims were id'd. IIRC there are still 7 unidentified Gacy victims.

Thoughts?

tia

eta: maybe there are notes with the family members name if a family member contacted Cook Cty regarding their brother/son John.

 

[masnitram]

Thank you. I'm confused. At what time was the vehicle reported stolen? Was it later that morning after the accident occured? how are we determining the one hour time window from which the car was stolen until the time it was found? I'm assuming the driving distance between Gurnee and Delafield is one hour?

If the accident occured at 4 am I'm assuming the owner of the vehicle would have still been sleeping and not reported his car stolen until later that morning when he awoke.

Just trying to understand the known/confirmed by LE timeline of events....

and you are very welcome masnitram. You're doing an excellent job on this case. I can't wait to hear the feedback from the detective on our theory regarding the DPC jail.

From what I was told it was reported stolen around the same time our JD crashed the vehicle. Apparently the gentleman who owned the vehicle started his workday rather early in the AM; from what I was told....the vehicle was reported stolen around 4am; the detectives feel JD stole the car around 3am based on the approximately 1hr drive between Gurnee and Delafield.

I thought about Gacy earlier a connection. I did find a John Mowery who was a victim of Gacy, but from my understanding he has been identified. I may be WRONG....but I thought I found out that he didn't match the physical description at all...but again I could be wrong!

 

[CarlK90245]

Carl, with the postmortem I'm seeing a bit of a bump in the nose (3/4's or so from the tip) which doesn't appear to be a result of the accident - unless they covered up bruising? also, I think the tip of his nose might not be so round but more pointy? Do you see that? Not trying to be critical of your work I'm just trying to see if that might make it look a little more accurate. At least the nose area as I think this young man has distinctive features with the nose. I think you've captured the rest very well.

thanks!

Yeah, I see what you mean. I also smoothed out the color of his hair, in addition to a few other minor things. I doubt that he combed his hair back like that. He probably had bangs, but the coroner combed his hair back for the photo.

When I work on these things, it always seems that I think I have everything right, until I walk away and come back a few hours (or days) later. Then the things I didn't get quite right become more obvious.

 

[Cubby]

According to Wiki John Mowery is listed as one of Gacy's victims. There are two other men with the first name John who were also listed as victims.

While we know our JD is not a victim maybe Cook Cty's notes might include something along the lines of X family member called to inquire if John X is one of the victims.... No one matching John X - and perhaps the John X who is not one of Gacy's victims is our JD? I realize it might be a stretch, but given Gacy's known timeline possible imo.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, I see what you mean. I also smoothed out the color of his hair, in addition to a few other minor things. I doubt that he combed his hair back like that. He probably had bangs, but the coroner combed his hair back for the photo.

When I work on these things, it always seems that I think I have everything right, until I walk away and come back a few hours (or days) later. Then the things I didn't get quite right become more obvious.

The description "Long sleeve blue, white, and gray striped shirt" -- I didn't think they meant a t-shirt, I thought they meant a shirt like this: http://shop.lacoste.com/dp/B003RX969I?srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=24-118938423-2

The black and gray checked pants were probably along these lines: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260691340715&hlp=false&rvr_id=180960786287&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M*F%3F&GUID=df03f5951260a0e203f216c2fff20b1e&itemid=260691340715&ff4=263602_304652

Rather well dressed, except for the brown shoes. Most guys would wear black shoes with a black/gray/blue shirt and slacks.

 

[masnitram]

According to Wiki John Mowery is listed as one of Gacy's victims. There are two other men with the first name John who were also listed as victims.

While we know our JD is not a victim maybe Cook Cty's notes might include something along the lines of X family member called to inquire if John X is one of the victims.... No one matching John X - and perhaps the John X who is not one of Gacy's victims is our JD? I realize it might be a stretch, but given Gacy's known timeline possible imo.

Cubby- You're correct; I probably was on the Wiki site the same time as you.

I'm going to see who I can contact in Cook County regarding any possible connection. I've noted the Doe Network threads regarding Gacy's unidentified victims and will look into it in better detail a bit later.

I agree that because of the timing of this case, the proximity/timing to Gacy, and of course the unknowns about both cases...it warrants a contact to Cook County.

I'll get that going today...

 

[CarlK90245]

The description "Long sleeve blue, white, and gray striped shirt" -- I didn't think they meant a t-shirt, I thought they meant a shirt like this: http://shop.lacoste.com/dp/B003RX969I?srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=24-118938423-2

Shor 'nuff!!

 

[carbuff]

The women's clothing that was found -- was it everyday items, fancy dress, Chanel suits...? And was it in a size that the UID might have worn himself?

 

[masnitram]

The women's clothing that was found -- was it everyday items, fancy dress, Chanel suits...? And was it in a size that the UID might have worn himself?

Unfortunately Carbuff there is nothing in the report that states the sizes of any of the clothing found. And because of the evidence purge done by Waukesha County back in 83/84 (for cases deemed "unsolvable") the clothing is long gone.