WI WI - Houlton, AsianFem 406UFWI, 35-60, wide-set eyes, Oct'02

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by not_my_kids, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    Mod Note: The first six posts of this thread deal with two separate UID's. I have duplicated the thread, and this thread will cover Case 406UFWI. Any further discussion of 874UFWI should be covered on the following thread:

    Submitted WI - Black River Falls, Fem (874UFWI), 24-40, Mushroom Tattoo on Left Hand, Oct'90 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


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    There was a headless body found in Black River Falls, WI 10-10-1990. She was a white female, estimated age to be anywhere from 24-40, she was 5'2" - 5'4", and had a stocky build. Her date of death would have been 2 weeks - 1 year earlier. SHe had been put into 2 garbage bags: her torso in one, limbs in another and buried them quickly in shallow graves right off I-94.

    Then in 10-19-2002, there was a bodiless head found in Jackson, WI, roughly 175 miles away. Her date of death is way off, she was believed to have died 6-9 months prior. But there are a lot of other factors involved that are too close for comfort. The head was also found in a garbage bag, in a ravine right off the side of the road and there were no other remains found at all. The skull was thought to have come from a woman 35-50, with dark brown hair. She could have been white, native american, asian, or white and hispanic mixed. They believe she may have been severly mentally impaired.

    I mapped the route from Black River falls to Jackson and I-94 where the head was found meets up I-39 and ends. On the other side of I-39 it becomes US-141, which takes you most of the way to Jackson. (At least that is what I see from the map, locals feel free to correct me.)

    Would it even be possible for the ME to be so wrong on the date of death for the skull? Maybe if it were kept in a controlled environment for a while, or if the garbage bag protected it a lot more than they thought? I don't know, it just seems very odd to me that in WI, where there are very few Does, there would be two dimembered bodies that are totally unconnected, especially since that means that there would be 2 uncaptured killers that prefer to dismember their victims, which is a relatively rare thing for people to do.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/874ufwi.html Body

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/406ufwi.html Head
     
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  3. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    There was a headless body found in Black River Falls, WI 10-10-1990. She was a white female, estimated age to be anywhere from 24-40, she was 5'2" - 5'4", and had a stocky build. Her date of death would have been 2 weeks - 1 year earlier. SHe had been put into 2 garbage bags: her torso in one, limbs in another and buried them quickly in shallow graves right off I-94.

    Then in 10-19-2002, there was a bodiless head found in Jackson, WI, roughly 175 miles away. Her date of death is way off, she was believed to have died 6-9 months prior. But there are a lot of other factors involved that are too close for comfort. The head was also found in a garbage bag, in a ravine right off the side of the road and there were no other remains found at all. The skull was thought to have come from a woman 35-50, with dark brown hair. She could have been white, native american, asian, or white and hispanic mixed. They believe she may have been severly mentally impaired.

    I mapped the route from Black River falls to Jackson and I-94 where the head was found meets up I-39 and ends. On the other side of I-39 it becomes US-141, which takes you most of the way to Jackson. (At least that is what I see from the map, locals feel free to correct me.)

    Would it even be possible for the ME to be so wrong on the date of death for the skull? Maybe if it were kept in a controlled environment for a while, or if the garbage bag protected it a lot more than they thought? I don't know, it just seems very odd to me that in WI, where there are very few Does, there would be two dimembered bodies that are totally unconnected, especially since that means that there would be 2 uncaptured killers that prefer to dismember their victims, which is a relatively rare thing for people to do.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/874ufwi.html Body

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/406ufwi.html Head
     
  4. defender123

    defender123 Member

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    You bring up a very good point. Contact Doe and ask them a few more questions. On the head they were fairly specific on the dates, so they may have ruled this out. But it does not hurt to ask.
     
  5. defender123

    defender123 Member

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    You bring up a very good point. Contact Doe and ask them a few more questions. On the head they were fairly specific on the dates, so they may have ruled this out. But it does not hurt to ask.
     
  6. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    Namus link for the 1990 Doe
    https://identifyus.org/cases/4767
    No DNA according to her DN page, Namus doesn't say anything about it.

    The 2002 Doe doesn't have a Namus page.

    Interesting coincidences there but the timing would have to be way off since the 2002 UID is estimated to have died 6 to 9 months earlier. The skull is said to be 90 % decomposed. Does that mean 90 % of the soft tissue was decomposed or what?

    Maybe the killer stored the head in the freezer for twelve years before ditching it.

    Another thing that strikes me as a problem is the description of the 2002 UID as likely to have been severely retarded and possibly institutionalized. The 1990 UID had a mushroom tattoo on her wrist. If it's true about the mental retardation (and it certainly looks like her facial features could fit some syndrome or another) she probably didn't have a tattoo IMO. It's possible but IMO somewhat unlikely. Someone who is so mentally impaired as to possibly require institutionalization may not have had the opportunity, the resources or even the impulse to acquire a tattoo. I am told that it is a somewhat painful procedure, and people with severe mental retardation may react to pain very strongly so their caretakers might not like the idea of subjecting them to unnecessary pain that is easily avoidable such as tattoos. Suppose choosing a mushroom tattoo for her might have been someone's idea of a sick joke if she really was mentally retarded. http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/mushroom

    Did you ever talk to anybody to find out more, Notmykids?
     
  7. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    Namus link for the 1990 Doe
    https://identifyus.org/cases/4767
    No DNA according to her DN page, Namus doesn't say anything about it.

    The 2002 Doe doesn't have a Namus page.

    Interesting coincidences there but the timing would have to be way off since the 2002 UID is estimated to have died 6 to 9 months earlier. The skull is said to be 90 % decomposed. Does that mean 90 % of the soft tissue was decomposed or what?

    Maybe the killer stored the head in the freezer for twelve years before ditching it.

    Another thing that strikes me as a problem is the description of the 2002 UID as likely to have been severely retarded and possibly institutionalized. The 1990 UID had a mushroom tattoo on her wrist. If it's true about the mental retardation (and it certainly looks like her facial features could fit some syndrome or another) she probably didn't have a tattoo IMO. It's possible but IMO somewhat unlikely. Someone who is so mentally impaired as to possibly require institutionalization may not have had the opportunity, the resources or even the impulse to acquire a tattoo. I am told that it is a somewhat painful procedure, and people with severe mental retardation may react to pain very strongly so their caretakers might not like the idea of subjecting them to unnecessary pain that is easily avoidable such as tattoos. Suppose choosing a mushroom tattoo for her might have been someone's idea of a sick joke if she really was mentally retarded. http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/mushroom

    Did you ever talk to anybody to find out more, Notmykids?


    Mod Note: Continue on this thread with any discussion of 406UFWI. Any further discussion of 874UFWI should be covered on the following thread:

    Submitted WI - Black River Falls, Fem (874UFWI), 24-40, Mushroom Tattoo on Left Hand, Oct'90 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
     
  8. giagreen

    giagreen New Member

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    Is there a thread here for Vernon County Jane Doe? She was found in Vernon County Wisconsin in 1984.
    http://www.wxow.com/story/18103491/28-year-old-cold-case-gets-new-look

    I know it might be a long shot but was up with the dismembering of bodies in that area. From where Jane Doe in Vernon was found to the Black River Falls would be about an hour drive give or take.
    Someone went to great lengths to hide the identity of Vernon Jane doe. But seems to me someone also went to great lengths to cover the identity of Jane Doe's out of Black River falls. Vernon Jane Doe is believed to be in her 60's and with one of the Jane Doe's from black river makes me wonder if these three could be connected at all. Maybe some type of group home or something? Any thoughts?
     
  9. vermontaigne

    vermontaigne New Member

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    Maybe, but you'd think that a group home would be monitored by the state to prevent stuff like the apparently claw-like toenails on the Vernon Jane Doe. Could be someone wanted to keep all the Social Security or pension money for themselves that such an individual might be getting. Or, beyond fingerprints, it could be that the individual had a deformation of the hand that would be distinctive, and the killer thought the best way of making it appear to be about fingerprints was to cut both off. Wish they'd enter the DNA for the headless body.
     
  10. giagreen

    giagreen New Member

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    I just realized that Jane Doe from 2002 I was trying to connect with Vernon county Jane Doe were actually three hours apart. And 18 years apart. So that kind of throws my group home idea out the window.
    However Black River falls Jane Doe was found only six years after Vernon county Jane Doe. And they were found only an hour apart. Just seems weird to me. Don't seem like very many dismembered bodies are ever found in Wisconsin often let alone so close. Both seemed to be dismembered to hide their identity. And there is no one looking for either of them. Just kind of makes me scratch my head.
    But I do think that either way Vernon county Jane Doe is probably a case of someone wanting to collect social security or something.
     
  11. sidneyia

    sidneyia New Member

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    She was missing all of her teeth. Institutions for the mentally disabled would sometimes pull all of a patient's teeth if they bit another patient. This poor woman. I can't even imagine how horrible her life must have been.

    She looks like she could have fetal alcohol syndrome. Not sure how that could help identify her though.
     
  12. giagreen

    giagreen New Member

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    And the JD from Vernon county was missing all her teeth but had dentures. They had numbers on them. That seems to be of no use to track where they came from. Would have been nice if it did.
     
  13. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    I was looking through the Doenet site looking for someone else, and I saw Edna Smith who has wide-set eyes.. there is clearly more than one eye-width space between them. She obviously had some sort of thing go wrong in her fetal development regarding her centre-line, as she also had a cleft palate operation and a gap between her front teeth. If it was just the soft palate not the hard palate that needed fixing it needn't have shown up on a skull. She went missing in 1983 with two others whose boat capsized. Their bodies were found, hers wasn't. Maybe she left the boat earlier in the day before the accident, had some sort of disagreement with the others (maybe they were going to do something stupid and she asked them to set her on the shore) then hitch-hiked out? If that happened maybe she would have been scared of being blamed for their deaths. Or maybe she was on the boat during the capsize, survived, and took the opportunity to lose her old identity and move on to the USA?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1919dfsk.html

    A little far-fetched but worth considering, there are only so many missing females with wide-set eyes.
     
  14. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    Theresa Diane Johnson also has an unusual face, had birth defects, and maybe looks close-ish to the recon. The head however was found a long time and distance away from where she was last known to be.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2783dffl.html
     
  15. JezyUn

    JezyUn Member

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    Could this be Patricia Arnold.
    [​IMG]

    http://projectjason.org/forums/topic/1722-missing-woman-patricia-arnold-wi-1999/
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1657/0/

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?86208-WI-Patricia-Arnold-Madison-1999

    *Note: Patricia Arnold's age is posted incorrectly on various sites (including NamUs and the Doe Network). They have her listed as 57 years old when she went missing.
    If she was born in 1952 and went missing in 1997 or 1999 (there are conflicting infos on which date is correct as well) this puts her at 45 or 47 when she went missing, not 57. These type of things/errors make it even harder for a missing person to be potentially matched to an UID, it really grinds my gears when I see things like that.
     
  16. SilentSleuth

    SilentSleuth Despite the name, I like to talk!

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    Wow. What a resemblance.
     
  17. DrDMike

    DrDMike New Member

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    I don't know. They both have DNA in the system...
     
  18. JezyUn

    JezyUn Member

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    It appears these 2 have already been submitted to the Doe Network, as a potential match, according to an e mail I received yesterday. No other info.
     
  19. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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  20. pleasestandby

    pleasestandby Inactive

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    02 Sep 1989 Rhys Marie Pocan, age 36 (NA), Saturday, September 2, 1989, Found dead/nude/missing head, hands & lower pelvic area Town of Lyndon, Sheboygan County, WI,

    Rhys Marie Pocan, a Native American, was from Milwaukee. But, she originally was from Black River Falls, Jackson County, WI.

    In fact, FamilySearch shows she is still living there, or someone is using her identity. Her hands were found in Vernon Marsh, Waukesha County, WI. according to the news article below, in which authorities from several Wisconsin counties met to discuss whether her death was related to yet another dismembered body. Note that there were no investigators from Black River Falls.

    The Milwaukee Sentinel - Mar 13, 1991

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19910313&id=L49QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6hIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4198,2592437

    Another recent dismemberment in Wisconsin...

    http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/Wausau-PD-Opens-Homicide-Investigation-in-Missing-Man-Case-203811661.html
     
  21. rats

    rats Where is Justice for the Jane and John Does?

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