Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #37

Status
Not open for further replies.
In the last thread, someone said "He actually pulled it off... he kills her at any point 87 days after and buries her with guns he wouldn’t be caught...."

I can't help wondering if this wasn't actually his first time. They said the search of the property is taking a lot longer than they expected. I would think part of what they're doing is underground imaging or digging up floors.

With all due respect to those who think LE doesn't deserve credit, when she escaped both families recognized her and knew to take immediate drastic action. Here are 50 missing children in Wisconsin. If one of them ran up to you, would you immediately recognize them? Gallery: Jayme Closs has been found, but there are 50 children still missing in Wisconsin
 
No one was making excuses for him. I certainly was not. I was responding with a fact. I was pointing out that he was 13 when his paraents were divorced. Same age as Jayme. PERIOD. The poster corrected me and said 11.


Am not sure whether I'm doing this right. Pepper34's post #317 sums it all up:

"No, it's not the strength it takes to break down a door that is important. It's what it symbolizes. The door is your safety and security. It's how you can lock the world out and have everything behind the door all to yourself... what you own and love and value more than anything else in the world. It's where you let down your guard and put your feet up, enjoy what's yours and vulnerably sleep without fear. He didn't come later at night and quietly pick a lock or quietly force open a window... shoot two sleeping adults and take a child. He walked right up and broke the door down. He planned that imo, in order to terrorize and immediately mentally disable the people inside the house. Look... it was successful; he was in total charge of everyone in that house. He was angry at the adults (or one of them.) I think he was miffed somehow and somewhere. He may have said something inappropriate to Jayme in the company of one of her parents. I suspect it was her mother who heard him and chastised him in public. "Insulted" him, by his way of thinking. He saw it as rejection, demeaning and like a mental castration of his big, bad self. Nobody talks to him like that and especially when he was trying to be nice. (He doesn't know how to be nice... it was creepy and uncomfortable; whatever it was he said. It could have even just been one of those looks that is inappropriate when dealing with young girls.) In a restaurant, at a school sports game, in a drugstore, at the church... name anyplace. He followed them home and made a mental note of where they lived and that he would come back and then he went on his way and did a slow boil over time. He got himself worked up enough to come back and show them all who they'd messed with. Revenge is my guess on the motivation. I think he lives in the general area and saw Jayme and her mother occasionally. He'd drive by the house and he let it bugger his brain over time. I guess you'd call it stalking but I think of it as letting things like hate, resentment, anger and rejection simmer until something makes the heat go up and then the person explodes."
 
If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it was the first time he left her alone, unbound/unshackled, etc. and he purposefully told her he'd be back around midnight, only to circle back minutes later to see if she'd leave the house.

Midnight.....how would she know when it was midnight? Why say it if she didn't have some sort of access to a clock? MOO
 
He would have had to have gone back by the cabin to know she was gone, if he indeed was out looking for her, which hasn't been established for sure yet, as authorities have said both that he was and that he wasn't. If he did go back by the cabin and found that she was missing--why didn't he follow her footprints in the snow?
You're correct about having to stop back by the cabin. It seems if he told her he'd be back about midnight it was almost certainly some sort of test. I guess if she left the road he'd have to know where in order to follow her footprints.
 
Better pics of the lunatic's house at this link too. Thanks!

Given the size of the house and the second garage structure on the property it was probably easy to hide her if "he" did in fact have guests/friends over while she was held captive. This house looks to be a bit bigger than some of the cabin type homes in the neighborhood. It will be interesting to learn too, regarding his sophistication or lack of, whether or not he made some sort of a "cell" or "hidden room" to contain her in prior to abducting her.
 
No. If a child over the age of 6 learned empathy and sympathy, they will retain all the parts of their personality after their own traumatic event. It likely will be enhanced, not diminished.
SOME people will use a defense mechanism to try not to remember their own experience if someone else's is very similar to what happened to them, but this is temporary, and is not going to help them deal with their own trauma long term.

All this talk about trauma and what it does or doesn’t cause.

Highly reccommend reading “The Body Keeps Score” for a comprehensive look at PTSD and it’s life long effects.

No two people respond directly the same ; even to the same trauma. (In the book two people are in a car crash together and their responses are vastly different. One develops severe flashbacks, nightmares, etc. The other is almost non chalant about it. Why? For the one with the PTSD symptoms it was their first trauma. The other had many childhood traumas that taught the brain to disassociate).

Bottom line: No two people with the same illness, personality disorder, mental impairment or trauma will react or act in the exact same ways because no two people have ever lived the exact same life.
 
Is it just possible that maybe he was seeking revenge on the parents? Maybe they had a hand in his short tenure at Jennie-O? Blamed them for his bad fortune job-seeking thereafter? Then after killing the pair realized their child, Jayme, was there, and couldn't bring himself to kill her too? Maybe she somehow appealed to him?
This is just a thought, MOO or maybe MODT-My Own Diverse Theory.
More likely she was the target, but still...
 
People earlier were wondering where he might have first seen Jayme, and how he developed some soft of obsession with her.
It was said, very innocently of course, that it didn't matter since it's obvious he did find her, etc.

It almost certainly does or will matter to Jayme, if not now, then years later. She absolutely needs to know where he saw her, and that there was nothing she did or could have done differently. She didn't know she was stalked.

As part of her healing, she needs to know 1) That he's a very different kind of sick person, an antisocial personality disordered person with violent tendencies and what that means as she ages, and 2) Which vast majority of her future activities she can feel very safe in, if he focused in on her at one location or maybe even one time only at a specific place.
This is very very hard to put into words for me.

Because of Elizabeth Smart's experience, she may or may not still give money to the poor in Temple Square or hire down on their luck handymen for her own home. ( I think I know the answers, but I cannot speak for another person).

For another survivor, it would have been another set of activities which he or she may never have to repeat such as going to a deserted laundromat ( just an example) or going to a mini mart late at night.
For others, they may have had years of needing to repeat the same thing which happened when they were taken, which would scare me more than I can say. Maybe the repeated exposure to the same or similar circumstances lessens the flashbacks and the panic, IDK. I choose not to ever know if possible.

The process of abduction itself usually changes the survivor's level of trust out of the " safe zone"- usually a personal or family home- and trust of strangers. As healing continues, it's not rare for some object, phrase, scent or stranger closeness to cause a certain type of mild to moderately severe flashback and severe anxiety, usually. It's likely not proper for us to know what that will be for Jayme, but I can tell you it's so real and so strong for some, we have to hold onto something to even remain standing, or we have to leave the area with haste.

I am lucky, I guess, that my stalker/ abductor didn't wear a uniform, ( did carry his badge and shoulder holstered gun) but a suit. I have aversion to suspenders, even just seeing them ( usually older TV programs) , and any exposure to the scent of Grey Flannel, which was the men's scent he liberally had applied every time I was in my office and he entered there, and later when he stalked me while I was just living my life.

There is a certain formerly very famous politician who was extremely similar in dress style and what I'd call " strutting" and could have been the man's brother in every aspect of personal appearance in hair and face, maybe almost twin- like, although they never stood side by side as far as I know... I'd have to leave when the man who looked so similar was on TV. I'd have difficulty now with this if he was still a popular national figure.

I will likely never fully trust the authority of anyone with a badge again, even though I worked on this in therapy for some time and we decided the power inequality was the problem issue I could not/ cannot control as an ordinary citizen.

Other survivors of life- threatening acute hostage situation
will have other triggers. Some people suppress them for a while, but the connection likely will come to the forefront of one's attention when the psyche is ready to accept the image, or smell, or other sensory memory.

It is extremely important to identify them and to learn to either accept that they're similar but not the same, which can be very difficult if the perp. dressed in such a way as to stand out from others for his intended victim for a long time, or to leave the area of the triggering things or person if that's the survivor's choice and it's easily done.

I've seen photos of some extremely distinct offenders shortly after the crimes, and I'd think the triggering responses would be lasting and great, regardless of the survivor's high level of functioning in all visible areas.

Sometimes, the deepest hurts do not show at all. Jayme's youth is a huge boon to her in learning desensitization to most triggers she will almost certainly have. We do not have any need to know what they are or anything about this. I chose to share the most visible and noticeable scent which are not distressing to read, because of respect for each of you, and because I don't want to over-share.

I think you are very brave to share whatever you feel appropriate and I for one am so sorry you, Jayme and all the other individuals have gone through what you have.. Much love xx
 
Last edited:
Midnight.....how would she know when it was midnight? Why say it if she didn't have some sort of access to a clock? MOO
I assume if she gained his trust he was talking to her as you would your partner, as creepy as that is. In that case, whether she had access to a clock really isn't the point.
 
That is cool. I wonder if Jayme is overwhelmed by so much attention.

FYI, that's the bridge that was built to replace the one that collapsed in'07 and killed 13 people.


You make good point, I’m sure at some point she just wants to go back to being a normal teen..as quickly as world moves now..she’ll get new normal at some point..
Probably a bit after the trial.. She can choose her own timeline .. healing process..

if your prisoner for 88 days and still say F&( this guy I’m out first chance I get ... I think she will rebuild.
 
You're correct about having to stop back by the cabin. It seems if he told her he'd be back about midnight it was almost certainly some sort of test. I guess if she left the road he'd have to know where in order to follow her footprints.

If it was a test he is really stupid as the length of time he has her captive wouldn't have been enough imo (not sure how long Stockholm syndrome takes) and why take that risk after all he did to get her...?

I think she might have asked not to be restrained and he trusted her.. Jmo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
200
Guests online
1,205
Total visitors
1,405

Forum statistics

Threads
596,576
Messages
18,050,001
Members
230,030
Latest member
wildkey517
Back
Top