AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

[Jadenn]

Update on Jayme Closs Search Expected Wednesday


The news station is reporting that an update is expected today. I read the forums all the time, rarely post. Apologies if I have made a posting snafu!

 

[Mercedes]

It was announced the car the woman saw was cleared. Did not say it was the posted car!

Are you talking about the black suv at the Rambler motel? Or a different car?

 

[O Missouri]

Not sure if anyone else saw this article and forgive me if it has already been posted! I seldom post and am relatively new! I thought this article was very interesting.
Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip About Conversation With Strange Man

This tip I believe was a reason for yesterday’s search. It’s inspiring to think there may be a lead from this tip. I would be disturbed if a strange man said these things to me.

 

[DeepThinker]

What if it all started inside the house? What if we look at it from the inside out, instead of someone breaking in? Who else had access to the house? And who had access to the access?

 

[photographer4]

Question:
Police requested a drone - how long before the drone arrived? Would it have been possible for perp and Jayme to walk some place to a waiting car? It's dark. Through the woods? I suspect they did walk somewhere and the drone was requested for that reason - so how long was it before the drone was up and running on site?

 

[MsBetsy]

I think the neighbors heard two loud gun shots. I believe that. I don't think that means there were only two shots, however. We don't know (but LE does).

Everything else said by the neighbor in media interviews about the timing of the shots and the description of the family, I take with a huge grain of salt. I think she likely means well, but I don't rely on her accuracy.

jmo

Well, the problem is, the more interviews she gives, the more unreliable she appears. She is certainly not helping, and this is the very reason LE tells us to only rely on them for information. In terms of the gunshots, I also believe they heard only two. Since her husband says the same, it's likely they did hear only two. I grew up hearing hunters shooting all my life. The rifles or shot guns they use can be heard a mile away. When its a half mile or quarter mile, you can also tell, because it's even louder. It would be hard not to hear other shots unless a different gun was also used. Even when shot inside, the type of gun they describe is extremely loud. The sound reverberates and bounces off the walls inside , and can cause hearing loss. I think it would still be heard by the neighbors. I have heard gunshots from within a house even further away, about a quarter of a mile, and it was loud enough to alarm me. There were six shots all together. It was a murder. I knew exactly how many shots I heard. That's the main reason I believe the neighbors heard two shots. But I am not convinced that there was not another gun involved, even one that James owned. We just dont know.

 

[natsound]

This is where I believe the chair evidence is of most importance. I think they came in and then tied up Denise to get control of the situation.

During the time between the outside shots were heard and the 911 call... imo heated words were being said before Denise was shot imo.

Has it been verified by the police that Denise was found in the bathroom? If not..I find that highly doubtful. The killer would just break that door in just like they kicked in the front door.

Imo I dont think the killer lost control of their 2 victims at anytime inside of the home. That doesnt make logical sense since the 2 victims inside knew this person had a deadly weapon when they entered and had already used it..

I am not convinced it was Denise who made the 911 call. It may have been her phone but imo it was most likely Jayme who somehow was able to get her mom's phone who was yelling for help.

By then I think both parents were already dead and she knew it. That is why they know she was there when her parents were being murdered because the enchanced 911 call is Jayme's voice. Imo

What stopped the plan is when they discovered a 911 call had been made. That threw a kink into everything.

All they had time to do then is take Jayme with them to deal with later so no witness was left behind that could help identify them.

Imo they would do that whether Jayme had known them before this or if this was the first time she had ever seen them.

The killer probably got spooked thinking then that others may have heard the 2 outside shots.

I believe it is like the police have said and multiple casings were found at the scene. Imo 2 were at the door and the other casings were found inside of the home.

When gunshots are fired within a home the sound doesnt travel like it does in outside spaces.

So this is where I stand for now at least.

Jmo

\
snipped

Great insight, OBE. What is the chair evidence? Isn't there a picture of the chair floating around?

 

[photographer4]

What is the reason for them not disclosing whose phone made the call etc? To stop rumors that may fly?

If Jayme made the call and she is still alive, it puts her in even more danger as the info might enrage the perp.

 

[jkloc420]

Anyone think this might of been a case of the wrong house?

 

[JohnTate90210]

JS: No. We didn`t even know they had any children. They just weren't out there doing things

But in DC's obit it says "Denise loved working with her flowers, feeding her birds" to me that doesn't sound like a woman who wasn't out there doing things. If you love feeding birds and gardening you have to go outside to do that. I am not sure how to take the neighbors.

In Google Streetview you can clearly see a child's swing set in the back yard.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What if it all started inside the house? What if we look at it from the inside out, instead of someone breaking in? Who else had access to the house? And who had access to the access?

We might not know a lot about this case, but one thing we do know is that the door was kicked in. Not only do the dispatch logs tell us this, but pictures of the door frame bear witness to it.

 

[Ari_]

Anyone think this might of been a case of the wrong house?

No. It feels targeted.

 

[DeepThinker]

Question:
Police requested a drone - how long before the drone arrived? Would it have been possible for perp and Jayme to walk some place to a waiting car? It's dark. Through the woods? I suspect they did walk somewhere and the drone was requested for that reason - so how long was it before the drone was up and running on site?

weirdest thing...I keep getting "over the river and through the woods, to Grandmother's house we go" playing in my head when I look at the maps on this case

 

[kirkassoc]

One thing LE does know for sure is WHO made the 911 call. If James made it, the phone would be on or near him, if DC made it, the phone would be near her, and if the call was made by JC before she was abducted, then the phone would not be near DC or James. JMO. That might be why they know JC was in the house, the phone may have been found in her room or somewhere far away from her parents (where she may have been hiding).

 

[JohnTate90210]

Thanks for that info.

The Closs property has a property of 24 acres next to it on the west which I figure is undeveloped. Then the S house.

How far is the S house from the Closs? It has been said 300 ft? That seems hard to imagine with the 24 acre parcel next door but I don’t know how to figure the dimensions of the 24 acre parcel.

It sure looks lkke there is not much opportunity for cameras l

House to the west is 800'. House to the east is 1200'.

 

[Songbird1973]

The neighbor on the other side who is much closer heard nothing?

I don't see any neighbor closer than the Smrekars. I'll try to attach a screen shot of the area. The Closs property is highlighted in orange. The Smrekars house is circled in red, and other houses are circled in blue.

 

[ludakristen]

Good morning everyone. Still hoping this will be the day they find Jayme alive.

As usual I have been thinking more about what could have happened that night.

I think all 3 were inside of their home that night and may have already been in bed or preparing to go to bed.

I believe James heard someone at the door so being late at night he would be the one to answer.

He may have opened it slightly and realized this person was up to no good and tried to force the door back closed trying to protect his family.

Door was kicked open and the 2 shots heard from the outside immediately killed James. The high velocity of the close range bullets would propell him backwards with his feet closest to the main entry door.

Then I believe the killer entered the home for Denise. I don't think she was immediately shot. Imo if she was the intended target which I do feel is a good possibilty now...then there would be words exchanged before Denise being killed.

This is where I believe the chair evidence is of most importance. I think they came in and then tied up Denise to get control of the situation.

During the time between the outside shots were heard and the 911 call... imo heated words were being said before Denise was shot imo.

Has it been verified by the police that Denise was found in the bathroom? If not..I find that highly doubtful. The killer would just break that door in just like they kicked in the front door.

Imo I dont think the killer lost control of their 2 victims at anytime inside of the home. That doesnt make logical sense since the 2 victims inside knew this person had a deadly weapon when they entered and had already used it..

I am not convinced it was Denise who made the 911 call. It may have been her phone but imo it was most likely Jayme who somehow was able to get her mom's phone who was yelling for help.

By then I think both parents were already dead and she knew it. That is why they know she was there when her parents were being murdered because the enchanced 911 call is Jayme's voice. Imo

What stopped the plan is when they discovered a 911 call had been made. That threw a kink into everything.

All they had time to do then is take Jayme with them to deal with later so no witness was left behind that could help identify them.

Imo they would do that whether Jayme had known them before this or if this was the first time she had ever seen them.

The killer probably got spooked thinking then that others may have heard the 2 outside shots.

I believe it is like the police have said and multiple casings were found at the scene. Imo 2 were at the door and the other casings were found inside of the home.

When gunshots are fired within a home the sound doesnt travel like it does in outside spaces.

So this is where I stand for now at least.

Jmo

Completely agree with your take. I also think it’s possible the perp ran out of bullets, which could explain why he didn’t just kill Jayme. Or maybe he did have some weird moral hangup with killing a child and panicked.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

\
snipped

Great insight, OBE. What is the chair evidence? Isn't there a picture of the chair floating around?

Thank you. Yes there is a photo where the police are removing a wooden chair which looks like a dining room chair.

I think they had Denise bound to this chair.

 

[Quill]

Good morning everyone. Still hoping this will be the day they find Jayme alive.

As usual I have been thinking more about what could have happened that night.

I think all 3 were inside of their home that night and may have already been in bed or preparing to go to bed.

I believe James heard someone at the door so being late at night he would be the one to answer.

He may have opened it slightly and realized this person was up to no good and tried to force the door back closed trying to protect his family.

Door was kicked open and the 2 shots heard from the outside immediately killed James. The high velocity of the close range bullets would propell him backwards with his feet closest to the main entry door.

Then I believe the killer entered the home for Denise. I don't think she was immediately shot. Imo if she was the intended target which I do feel is a good possibilty now...then there would be words exchanged before Denise being killed.

This is where I believe the chair evidence is of most importance. I think they came in and then tied up Denise to get control of the situation.

During the time between the outside shots were heard and the 911 call... imo heated words were being said before Denise was shot imo.

Has it been verified by the police that Denise was found in the bathroom? If not..I find that highly doubtful. The killer would just break that door in just like they kicked in the front door.

Imo I dont think the killer lost control of their 2 victims at anytime inside of the home. That doesnt make logical sense since the 2 victims inside knew this person had a deadly weapon when they entered and had already used it..

I am not convinced it was Denise who made the 911 call. It may have been her phone but imo it was most likely Jayme who somehow was able to get her mom's phone who was yelling for help.

By then I think both parents were already dead and she knew it. That is why they know she was there when her parents were being murdered because the enchanced 911 call is Jayme's voice. Imo

What stopped the plan is when they discovered a 911 call had been made. That threw a kink into everything.

All they had time to do then is take Jayme with them to deal with later so no witness was left behind that could help identify them.

Imo they would do that whether Jayme had known them before this or if this was the first time she had ever seen them.

The killer probably got spooked thinking then that others may have heard the 2 outside shots.

I believe it is like the police have said and multiple casings were found at the scene. Imo 2 were at the door and the other casings were found inside of the home.

When gunshots are fired within a home the sound doesnt travel like it does in outside spaces.

So this is where I stand for now at least.

Jmo

Same page, Ocean. You have just written out exactly what I think happened.

 

[jkloc420]

No. It feels targeted.

have the police said she was the target or taking because she was a witness