AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

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My thoughts began to wander regarding that possibility when the family stated on the KARE11 interview that JC was working 60,70,80 hour weeks.

But I think if an affair was on the table regarding JC or DC, there would be electronic evidence of such and would have heard about it. MOO

Jayme Closs' family shares grief one month later

Agreed, Bug. I don't see how anything like that wouldn't be unknown to LE after all this time. Like I said, the affair angle never even crossed my mind until a few days ago. And it isn't something I'm seriously considering now, but reviewing the case with fresh eyes, I've tried to ask myself new questions that go beyond my normal parameters of logic. I just feel like I became locked into the random home invasion theory pretty early on, and can't see beyond it now.
 
I don't want to say the wrong thing here and get in trouble. I just have a wonky feeling about this one. Something feels off to me and the duration of this missing person's case, is troubling. Pure missing person cases. . . . . of course. They can and do, last for decades, or forever. This is different with the double murder of both parents. Several comparable cases spring to mind......again, don't want to step on toes or break rules. My hinky meter is going off though.....

My #2 theory is a result of my hinky meter going into the red. I don't discuss it here for a number of reasons, mainly out of respect for the family, but also because discussing it here would be of no real benefit to Jayme. If it turns out my #2 theory is right...typing it out won't be helpful. If it turn out my #2 theory is wrong, it could be hurtful. So, I just don't see any upside to sharing.

All of which is simply to say that you are not alone in feeling that something is off. I suspect several of us feel the same way and simply choose not to express those thoughts.
 
Been thinking... New theory...

It’s been discussed time and again how DC and Jayme went to church. James did not, or it appears he did not. It’s been said he worked up to 70, 80 hours some weeks. With that in mind...

What if someone at church thought James was not taking care of his family very well. He wasn’t the “leader” of his family, didn’t provide spiritually or emotionally. Over time this thought pattern becomes obsessive. Maybe he even talked to DC about it. Perhaps he tried to get her to leave James and let him be the “man” she deserved. DC rejects him. He stews for awhile, but can’t quit obsessing over this. He decides DC is beyond help, but he can help Jayme. He takes on a “savior complex”. He rids Jayme of her parents and takes her so he can “save” her and give her everything he thinks she needs.

Or, maybe I just watch too much tv. At this point, I’m thinking almost anything could be possible.

JMO
I'm going to say no. I have been to a lot of churches alone with kids in my life. I was a kid in church with just my mom for 20 years before that. Churches are typically full of women and kids without the father. Sad, but there is nothing at all special about this, and almost 100% of men in church are there because they are devoted to their own wife and children.
 
Since we're discussing Denise's church...I did wondered whether Denise and Jayme attended services prior to going to the birthday party that day. So I looked that up. Sunday services at St. Peter Parrish are held at 8:00 am.

(Not sure how that helps us, but it is a little info to add to very small pile. )
 
I have followed this case on & off. I read on one post that Mark Fuhrman thinks Denise was the target. Has anyone brought up the idea that maybe Denise and Jayme were the targets. Could it be possible Denise had a very brief affair that no one ever knew about and Jayme was not James daughter. Then this person wanted Jayme to know he was her father and Denise strongly rejected this notion. Maybe James did or din't know. I have never read about the relationship Jayme and her dad had. All I ever read was James was reclusive and worked a lot. Did any of the family ever say James was very close to his daughter. Maybe the person who did this was so enraged he decided to take matters in his own hands. Their must be a reason that a seasoned Detective thought Denise was the target and initially The Barron Police said her life was in danger.
From day 1 it was noted (by a cousin, I think) that James was Jayme’s Knight in Shining Armor. I do think they had a good relationship.
 
Just checking in and wanted to post this really in depth report on the case with some new info.

WATCH – One Month Missing: The Closs Mystery special report

They did recover 'shell casings' that are being analyzed. Not all of the info from specific apps are back due to warrants, etc. Fitzgerald feels like it was targeted. Denise's sister did speak with her at 10 pm everything was "normal" at home.
 
Sorry, so OT, but Im not sure how to fix this. This is my first post today and when I quoted a post it says 'added to multi-quote'. Theres no quote in my text box, and I cant find another post that I quoted to untick it. Hopefully posting clears it.
 
Since we're discussing Denise's church...I did wondered whether Denise and Jayme attended services prior to going to the birthday party that day. So I looked that up. Sunday services at St. Peter Parrish are held at 8:00 am.

(Not sure how that helps us, but it is a little info to add to very small pile. )

Thanks Mountain_Kat; All the research you provide puts more good material "on the table" to ponder.
Good question; Did they go that day? Or, maybe since its cold and flu season, everybody got more needed rest that morning, and slept in?

Scrapper18 also mentioned church a few posts before yours, and that the crime was a result of a church connection gone obsessive, which developed into a "save".

There's definitely a couple of "savior complex" options which other posters have mentioned along the way, in these 24 threads:
1) For a "young-ish" perp who thinks he is Jayme's boyfriend: "I'm saving you from your parents."
2) For a couple: "We can bring up your daughter better than you two"
3) For an older male: "I tried but I can't save the mother now, so I'm taking the daughter."

This crime is so weird in that it almost has two heads, on every aspect:
a) Its extremely well planned; all objectives met. And perp(s) not caught yet by LE. (or....)
b) Its very sloppy; Huge loss of control mid-crime. And dumb luck means not caught yet by LE.

So which is it?

Then there's the complicating issue of motive:
a) Is this a raging crime of passion .......committed to LOOK like a random home invasion? (or.....)
b) Is this a random home invasion......which turned into an abduction? (..or ..)
c) Is this a raging crime of passion ....which turned into an abduction?

What is missing above?

And, Here are Some off-the-wall questions which I am sure LE has no time for:
1) Are there any couples who in the community (the Church, Jenny-O, etc.), over the years, had fertility issues. (perhaps going back 20 years, they have tried to have children, but couldn't.)
2) Are there any couples in the community who had tried and tried again to adopt, but were unsuccessful. (perhaps, deemed "unfit" for some reason.)
3) Are there any couples in the community who believe they contracted a long-term serious health problem from Jenny-O? (perhaps, perceiving James, as management, had some hand in "hurting" them further, and by extension hurting their family.)
4) Are there any couples who filed for medical leave, early retirement, worker's compensation, disability, extended pregnancy leave, etc., but were denied what they applied for, and somehow perceive James in his role of management, as being the entity who prevented them from getting what they needed?

Unfortunately, so many of these questions are so private, so painful, and most likely irrelevant. The answers would only be hinted at..... in an exhaustive examination of personnel files at Jenny O, which LE probably is not allowed to do anyway.

Am Praying for Jayme's safe return.
 
From day 1 it was noted (by a cousin, I think) that James was Jayme’s Knight in Shining Armor. I do think they had a good relationship.

I think Jayme was greatly blessed to have two parents who loved her unconditionally and completely. Imo Jayme was their world. .

She was even named after her daddy which I find so endearing. Imo they both were ecstatic to be blessed with their only daughter. They both had to be so proud of Jayme.

She sounds like she is such a good person and I have no doubt the way she has been raised by both parents is an important reason why she seems that way.

Jmo
 
If employees knew they were working with / being sickened by a drug resistant form of Salmonella, would that be considered an OSHA violation? I don’t know.

Looking into work conditions at Jennie-O, found this from 2012, “ US Department of Labor's OSHA cites Jennie-O Turkey Store for 11 safety violations after amputation of worker's arm at Barron, Wis., processing facility”.
US Department of Labor's OSHA cites Jennie-O Turkey Store for 11 safety violations after amputation of worker's arm at Barron, Wis., processing facility | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

11 Safety Violations - OSHA Report / Post-Inspection
https://www.osha.gov/ooc/citations/JennieOTurkeyStoreIncCitationInspection92562.pdf

It’s worth noting that OSHA will perform follow-up inspection(s) to confirm that violations have been addressed by a company. After that, they do not perform “routine” inspections unless a complaint has been filed.
 
I tried to quote myself but WS is acting wonky for me today, so not sure it attached. Last night I made a post describing Denise that, at the time, had no underlying meaning to me than what I said. But then it really did make me stop and think. She was a genuine caring person. Her sister said she did such things as making sure someone wasnt sitting alone at a game after their spouse passed. She brought little gifts to parties. She went out of her way to do things for people. When I read Fuhrman said he felt she was the target, that wasnt something I had considered at all. But maybe she was. Maybe someone took her caring intentions wrong. Maybe an "interest", or even jealousy. ?? I could see small town jealousy/rumors escalating. Jealousy makes people stupid. The only way I personally see this as an "interest", be it in Denise or Jayme, is if someone was flat out told 'no' and it angered them. Just speculating outloud.
 
Look at what happened to PG and E years (Erin Brokovich) ago or evan Volkswagen as of lately.

There’s a word that’s discouraged in the industry and it begins with the letter “U”. Hormel is represented by UCFW (United Food and Commercial Workers). Their last negotiation occurred in 2015 and their contract runs four years. To my knowledge, the Jennie-O employees are non-union. (Correct me if I’m wrong, someone!)

Based on this press release, it does not mention their Jennie-O subsidiary nor the locations of the Jennie-O plants:
Union approves contract with Hormel at Fremont, other plants
 
From day 1 it was noted (by a cousin, I think) that James was Jayme’s Knight in Shining Armor. I do think they had a good relationship.

Most good loving daddies are extremely close to their daughters.

The daughters have a way of having their daddies wrapped around their little finger. Lol I bet Jayme was the same..

Iames probably was so proud that Jayme loved athletic activities. He may have been athletic in school himself.

Imo
 
Since we're discussing Denise's church...I did wondered whether Denise and Jayme attended services prior to going to the birthday party that day. So I looked that up. Sunday services at St. Peter Parrish are held at 8:00 am.

(Not sure how that helps us, but it is a little info to add to very small pile. )

Speaking of Denise and church, this NY Times article says she taught at her church and it has some photos I’d not seen before, including one of their home with a white front door, FWIW:

Mystery in a Small Town: A Quiet Couple Shot Dead, Their Daughter Missing
 
Speaking of Denise and church, this NY Times article says she taught at her church and it has some photos I’d not seen before, including one of their home with a white front door, FWIW:

Mystery in a Small Town: A Quiet Couple Shot Dead, Their Daughter Missing

Interesting to note that the red pick-up truck is parked in the driveway, roughly in the same spot as the night of the murder (maybe a little closer to the house?). This also jogs my memory re: neighbor saying she never saw Denise in the yard when it was decorated for Fall in the most recent pics. One of Denise’s sisters also mentioned Denise’s love for her flowers.
 
There’s a word that’s discouraged in the industry and it begins with the letter “U”. Hormel is represented by UCFW (United Food and Commercial Workers). Their last negotiation occurred in 2015 and their contract runs four years. To my knowledge, the Jennie-O employees are non-union. (Correct me if I’m wrong, someone!)

Based on this press release, it does not mention their Jennie-O subsidiary nor the locations of the Jennie-O plants:
Union approves contract with Hormel at Fremont, other plants
The only thing Ive been able to find is that 10-ish years ago (i dont remember the year exactly) some employees tried to organize union representation with UCFW. It doesnt appear it was voted in. If the Closs's were union, the union would be backing this investigation and at the very least contributing to the reward money. I would imagine also that it would have been listed in their obituary. So I think youre right, non-union is my best guess.
 
Denise spoke to her sister at 10 pm, and I read that Jim spoke to his brother that evening as well. (I’m searching for where I read it, will link just as soon as I find it).

If both parents were talking to their siblings that night, is there any chance that something could be troubling them that their family was calling to check in on them? Or something that happened that evening, or even at the birthday party, and they needed to vent to someone?

Again, my mind goes back to the 2 girls driving by at 2 am. The driver lived about 20 min away from crime scene. Still can’t wrap my brain around why they were out at 2 am on a Sunday night, in that particular area. A Friday or Saturday night, yeah, I get it. They don’t want the night to end and they’re just looking for something to do, taking a ride, smoking out a little maybe. A Sunday night, no. Everything closes early, they were too young to be in the casino, there was no where logistically that they should have been coming from - so why were they out? Did someone ask them, “hey, cops are out at a house on Hwy 8, can you go drive by and see if you can find out what’s happening?”
 
Interesting to note that the red pick-up truck is parked in the driveway, roughly in the same spot as the night of the murder (maybe a little closer to the house?). This also jogs my memory re: neighbor saying she never saw Denise in the yard when it was decorated for Fall in the most recent pics. One of Denise’s sisters also mentioned Denise’s love for her flowers.

I noticed the truck in the same spot, too. Maybe that’s where he parked regularly?

I guess it kinda made sense from a safety standpoint, too, come to think of it. May as well park your big red shiny truck where motorists passing by on the highway could see it and know someone was home. Their driveway looks kinda long and curved from the aerial photos, with the house partially hidden by lots of trees and foliage. In warmer months when everything is in full bloom, it looks like it’s pretty secluded from the road.

I still think it’s sweet that Denise adorned it with butterflies and the things she hung around the door and had seasonal decorations outside to warm it up and welcome visitors. It seems to match all the kind things we’re hearing about her and her gentle personality.
 
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