AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[human]

Why would that totally nondescript home be chosen?

I would never think there was any money or valuables to be had there.

 

[human]

I'd like a crack at reviewing video footage from the following places for the week prior and week after this crime:
-> any video at the school where Jayme attended that shows people coming and going / or monitors kids on the school yard (especially if it shows any distance outside the school (street, sidewalks, homes).
-> any video from the church parking lot / entrances / road (who came and went, when and why)?
- > I'd like the video footage for any toll roads in the area that night who came and went that day / night? Which direction?
-> I'd like the type of gun(s) determined by casings left behind so people can start to think about who had / has one like it and what happened to it / where is it / who uses / used it?
-> I'd like to have parents cough up video they have from any dance recitals. Who was in the crowd? Why? Was there anyone there people didn't know? Or someone who just showed up to watch a friend's kid etc?

Somewhere, someone has information, even if they don't realize they have it. It might just be a matter of helping someone to realize they have potential evidence.

No toll roads anywhere very near

 

[SkipperKey3]

So, what does this indicate? No DNA other than the victims? Any DNA not the victims, is not in the database? When was the last presser to give updates? The silence from LE is just crazy. I wish they would say something...

From our standpoint it doesn't really indicate anything. And even if there were an update given, I seriously doubt what DNA they may or may not have will be discussed. They may well have some outside DNA but no way to match it to anybody. They also have no real way of knowing who may have recently visited the house, and that makes it more difficult. I'd say if anything, it's a matter of sifting through all the DNA to try to determine what is relevant. But that's just a guess on my part.

 

[bellyup]

So, what does this indicate? No DNA other than the victims? Any DNA not the victims, is not in the database? When was the last presser to give updates? The silence from LE is just crazy. I wish they would say something...

I'm lead to believe that there likely was no DNA that was suspicious. But that's just suspicion.

It's possible LE is waiting on more specialized forensics (ie; fiber analysis, soil samples, bullet testing, etc.) but basic DNA tests would be back for sure. More specialized forensic tests can take weeks. Range in WI is around 1- 115 days.

 

[Lillymac]

From our standpoint it doesn't really indicate anything. And even if there were an update given, I seriously doubt what DNA they may or may not have will be discussed. They may well have some outside DNA but no way to match it to anybody. They also have no real way of knowing who may have recently visited the house, and that makes it more difficult. I'd say if anything, it's a matter of sifting through all the DNA to try to determine what is relevant. But that's just a guess on my part.

I agree...makes total sense. I'm sure they have collected DNA from all the family and friends who have been there. Massive!!

 

[bellyup]

This case absolutely fits into the Home Invasion department.
Now, were they selected by random or targeted? Did they know the family? or driving through?

Home invasion is so low on the list of possibilities in the Closs case that I can't even imagine a scenario. Somewhere upward of 65% of home invasions are committed during the day from 6a-6p. This was late a night in a home where people were known to do shift work. There was no reason to believe they would even be asleep. There's is significant reason to believe they would be armed. Random burglars might be dumb but most don't have death wishes. US Dept of Justice in 2015 reported ZERO murders related to home invasions. (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt)

I have no doubts this was targeted and premeditated.
They came to kill Denise and James and take Jayme.

I believe the key to cracking this case is finding out who had a grudge against one of them or one of their family members and why.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Respectfully disagree and hate that I'm about to write this... but it takes only a few seconds to snap a neck. Yet that didn't happen here... why not?

I could see taken for this reason...
mainly because gun could malfunction or out of ammo... if jayme says to hell with it and fights back.. perp would have to strangle or some other form to eliminate that might leave dna all over her. Either under fingernails or biting. Very sad to picture but at that point perp would have to take her and dna...

They likely know if that happened... either one set footprints through crime scene or two..

Dunno

 

[otto]

Home invasion is so low on the list of possibilities in the Closs case that I can't even imagine a scenario. Somewhere upward of 65% of home invasions are committed during the day from 6a-6p. This was late a night in a home where people were known to do shift work. There was no reason to believe they would even be asleep. There's is significant reason to believe they would be armed. Random burglars might be dumb but most don't have death wishes. US Dept of Justice in 2015 reported ZERO murders related to home invasions. (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt)

I have no doubts this was targeted and premeditated.
They came to kill Denise and James and take Jayme.

I believe the key to cracking this case is finding out who had a grudge against one of them or one of their family members and why.

I'm curious about the motive being "grudge" rather than "desire." Grudge would explain murdering the parents, but the abduction of Jayme's seems more like desire, where the parents are eliminated to obtain Jayme.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I too think she could be nearby. i think perp wanting her for their own specific reason is about the best hope there is as sick as that is.

I thought this also early on.. they searched for trap doors or hidden rooms at neighbors house?? Made me think no car so they thought nearby. And maybe obvious they walked out back ....to other house. Or parked car by farms out back

 

[IceIce9]

Or... does it indicate that one casket is cheaper than two? One may have been cremated and placed in a casket with the other, or perhaps both were and the casket was just for show?

Usually if there is a cremation there is an urn on display at the funeral, not a casket, at least that is how it has been at the funerals I have attended.

 

[IceIce9]

Do you have a link?

It was on a family member’s Facebook page, I don’t think I am allowed to link to it?

 

[bellyup]

I'm curious about the motive being "grudge" rather than "desire." Grudge would explain murdering the parents, but the abduction of Jayme's seems more like desire, where the parents are eliminated to obtain Jayme.

They could have taken Jayme without murdering the parents.

Family members have stated she was often alone waiting for the school bus. If the sole motive was kidnapping, one wouldn't take the risk of breaking and entering a home (with a father who is VERY likely armed) and committing a double homicide. They would have just curbed snatched her.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I agree...makes total sense. I'm sure they have collected DNA from all the family and friends who have been there. Massive!!

Would DNA request not be way to expedite the filter process.... if your going from person to person and asking for dna... 50 say sure whatever u need... person 51 says why do u need my dna .... I would think it would be instant red flag and quicker way to get feel on person ...

 

[cody22]

I'm curious about the motive being "grudge" rather than "desire." Grudge would explain murdering the parents, but the abduction of Jayme's seems more like desire, where the parents are eliminated to obtain Jayme.

Maybe Jayme was a "winning trophy" to be enjoyed for a while, for succeeding in the goal you came for ?

 

[Rubiconbob]

What more would you have them do?

I am frustrated also ...but put yourself in there shoes...zero home cam ..47 second 911 call... you could have shoe prints and gun type and that’s it... if it’s common gun and average atypical shoe... not a lot there

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe Jayme was a "winning trophy" to be enjoyed for a while, for succeeding in the goal you came for ?

Someone with a grudge who also happens to be a pedophile?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I believe the key to cracking this case is finding out who had a grudge against one of them or one of their family members and why.

Respectfully snipped for focus.
This is my primary speculation as well.
However, I was reminded of an important consideration today with the announcement of the 50-year-old Jane Britton murder case being solved! Jane was a promising anthropology student at Harvard in 1969. (Cambridge, Mass.) We had some very interesting theories on Jane's thread, and had an insider providing additional dimension. However, none of our theories were right. The Perp was a serial killer and was out hunting for prey when he spotted this pretty young co-ed. He scaled up the fire escape to get in to her dorm. This was a completely random attack. There was such an incredible signature to the murder, and such apparent ritualism, we were sure it was tied to some pagan ritual. Apparently not so. Just a demented killer.

Another interesting point that we can apply when pondering this case. The Perp in the Jane Britton case did not live in Cambridge (where the college was), but *did as a child*. The town was his old stomping grounds and he knew it well. Just something to keep in mind as we mull over probabilities.

So what I learned from today's revelation is that we must always consider the possibility of complete randomness by a serial Predator.
This type of Predator is voracious and prolific, as evidenced by the string of rapes and murders by the Perp in the Jane Britton case.
It was the same scenario in the Mollie Tibbets case - completely random Perp out hunting for prey.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[LVatty10]

They could have taken Jayme without murdering the parents.

Family members have stated she was often alone waiting for the school bus. If the sole motive was kidnapping, one wouldn't take the risk of breaking and entering a home (with a father who is VERY likely armed) and committing a double homicide. They would have just curbed snatched her.

Very true. And this is a good point.

But fear is one way of making a victim compliant. Killing both parents in front of a child is certainly one method of terrorizing them into not attempting to escape and doing whatever you say without a word otherwise.

Maybe there was no grudge, Jayme was the target, and pent up rage and a desire to scare her to death and make her compliant was the impetus for killing James and Denise.

 

[Mistermagoo]

They could have taken Jayme without murdering the parents.

Family members have stated she was often alone waiting for the school bus. If the sole motive was kidnapping, one wouldn't take the risk of breaking and entering a home (with a father who is VERY likely armed) and committing a double homicide. They would have just curbed snatched her.

The cover of night + less cars on the road + most people sleeping

 

[cody22]

Someone with a grudge who also happens to be a pedophile?

No.... Just to have a little more winning revenge.