AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by JerseyGirl, Oct 15, 2018.

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  1. JerseyGirl

    JerseyGirl Forum Coordinator Staff Member Forum Coordinators

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    Deputies responded to a residence on Highway 8 east of Barron that was asking for help shortly before 1 a.m. When deputies arrived, they found two deceased adults. Jayme Closs, 13, is considered "missing and endangered." Jayme is described as 5' tall, 100 pounds and has green eyes and blond or strawberry blond hair.

    2 dead, 13-year-old girl missing in Barron County, Wisconsin


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    Media, Maps, and Timeline Thread
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2018
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  2. cybervampira

    cybervampira Well-Known Member

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    Timeline of events: Missing Barron Co. teen

    Father: James Closs, 56 – Deceased
    Mother: Denise Closs, 46 – Deceased
    Daughter: Jayme Closs, 13 – Missing

    Sunday, October 14
    Denise & Jayme Closs attend family gathering. James, was at work, according to the Associated Press.

    Monday, October 15
    12:58 a.m. – Barron Co. receives 911 call from 1268 Hwy. 8. Nobody speaks back to dispatchers.
    – Deputies find James and Denise dead from gunshots. Daughter Jayme is missing
    – FBI, DCI arrive at home on Highway 8. Search of the area begins

    6:56 a.m. – Sheriff’s Dept. puts out notice on social media and to local media of missing teen.
    – Sheriff’s Dept. interviews school staff at Riverview Middle School – where Jayme attends.

    3:23 p.m. – AMBER Alert is sent out for Jayme.

  3. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Dear Members,

    In no way will we allow ANYONE to suggest that a minority group, a gang, the Nazi's or a coven of witches are the ones who killed Jayme's parents and kidnapped her.

    If anyone hints, talks around or in anyway suggests a group is responsible for this horrible crime that person will be gone from the discussion. Same thing if you mention anyone as a suspect without evidence.

    If any reliable information comes out about the suspect or suspects then, of course, we can discuss the new information.

    Until then, please stay on topic, do not start discussing any other cases, and remember while Websleuths is first a true crime discussion forum a very close second is we are a victim friendly forum. 99.9% of the time we can easily be both. In Jayme's case, there is no reason to disparage the parents or Jayme. There is no evidence of any issues with Jayme's parents or with Jayme herself.

    PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC. We know teenagers can be very difficult, however, there is no evidence to suggest Jayme is anything but a victim.

    If your post starts with "Me", "My", "I" it very well could be off topic.

    We have the best sleuths in the world on Websleuths. We need to keep on topic to make sure the topics are easy to read. When a post is made about anything that is not directly related to the topics it makes the thread harder to read and way off topic.

    The work the mods are having to do on this thread alone is overwhelming.

    The rules are easy to follow on Websleuths. Thousands of people follow the rules every day with no problem.

    Thank you for your cooperation,

    Springrain, Jim CSI, Alcina and 6 others like this.
  4. Whiskers16

    Whiskers16 Retired WS Staff

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    Hi everyone- As this is a very active discussion, please make every effort to stay on-topic, victim friendly, and courteous to your fellow posters. If you are posting information as fact, posting a picture, etc. include a link to your source. If you see a post which violates TOS, report the post and do not respond to it. Thank you and carry on :)
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  5. Whiskers16

    Whiskers16 Retired WS Staff

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    Disclaimer: This post is primarily based on what I've found from the cited sources. In several spots I made generalizations to summarize the discussions here. In a few places I haven't yet had an opportunity to gather more info. I can update this post as myself or others have a chance to compile more info.

    Victims (pictures attached):

    • James Closs, 56, homicide victim, MOD gunshot [1]
      • Note: I have seen a facebook link but I am not certain it is the victim's as there are others with the same name; I am choosing not to link it here.
    • Denise Closs, 46, homicide victim, MOD gunshot [1]
    • Jayme Closs, 13, missing and endangered [2]
      • 5 feet tall, weighs 100 pounds and has green eyes and blond or strawberry blond hair [1]
      • Facebook:
      • She goes to Barron Middle School and went to Cameron previously [16]
      • Known for her love of dance and her cross country running [17]
      • “I love to dance at Christine’s Dance Jazz, ice-skating, valleyball (sic), swim, Art, cross country, Track, Dance,” [19]
    • Of Denise and Jayme, Downing told NBC, “They got along exceptionally good […]" [18]
    • Described the family as "happy-go-lucky." [20]
    • Joan Smrekar and her husband live right next door to the Closs family, who they describe as “very quiet, almost reclusive.” [2]
    • Case Map, courtesy of thesnowflakesparkles: Google Maps
    • Victims' house: 1268 US-8, Barron, WI 54812 [12]
    • Street view of home: Google Maps
    • Note: in some cases WS users have found that the address of 1268 US-8 or 1268 13 1/2 Ave is directing to the wrong residence on Google Maps.
    • Both James and Denise Closs were long-time employees of the Jennie-O Turkey Store in Barron [1]
    • At the time of this post, no details have been confirmed by LE/MSM about either victim's role or work schedule.
    • Statement: by Steve Lykken, president at Jennie-O Turkey Store: “Our thoughts are with the Closs family and the entire Barron community. Jim and Denise were long time members of the Jennie-O Turkey Store family. This is a difficult time for our entire team and we are mourning this loss and are still processing this terrible tragedy. We are also hopeful for the safe return of their daughter, Jayme, and are keeping her and the Closs family in our thoughts.” [7]
    • Employee reviews: Jennie-O Turkey Store in Barron, WI: Employee Reviews |
    • Job Positions: Jennie-O Turkey Store Careers
    • 10/14/18 afternoon - family gathering to celebrate the birthday of a grandson who is cousins with Jayme. Denise Closs and Jayme attended the party. James Closs was working and couldn't make it, per family member. [12]
    • 10/15/18 00:31 - Neighbors report hearing two loud gunshots within a few seconds [27]
    • 10/15/18 00:53:26 - 911 call received per dispatch log [22]
    • 10/15/18 00:56:01 - dispatched units to residence [22]
    • 10/15/18 01:00:30 - dispatched units arrive on scene. [22]
    • 10/15/18 01:03 - dispatch is advised of possible suicide attempt. Requested assistance, first responders. [22]
    • 10/15/18 1:05:19 - dispatch is advised of one male down, multiple rounds spent. [22]
    • 10/15/18 01:06:19 - dispatch is advised to request ERT; door has been kicked in, male who is down had answered the door. [22]
    • 10/15/18 01:11:02 - dispatch is advised that two subjects are down. [22]
    • 10/15/18 01:32:00 - dispatch is advised that no gun is located at this time. Responding officer requested command post response, search team. [22]
    • 10/15/18 01:38 - responding officer requests photos of property. [22]
    • 10/15/18 01:54 - responding officer requests pole cam. [22]
    • 10/15/18 02:00:59 - responding officer requests drone. [22]
    • 10/15/18 02:08:50 - responding officer advised individuals driving by multiple times were asked to leave. [22]
    • 10/15/18 02:36:15 - responding officer requested state patrol to respond for forensic mapping. [22]
    • 10/15/18 03:05:47 - type of call changed from suicidal person / attempted suicide to homicide. [22]
    • 10/15/18 03:57:47 - entered JLC as a missing juvenile. [22]
    • 10/15/18 04:02:09 - responding officer requested to contact an FBI field agent. [22]
    • 10/15/18 04:25:57 - responding officer advised deputies are going to [address removed]. [22]
    • 10/15/18 04:32:22 - contacted security at St. Croix Casino and requested they contact responding officer. [22]
    • 10/15/18 05:13:19 - Missing endangered juvenile call (ATL - Attempt to Locate)broadcast by dispatch. [22]
    • 10/15/18 06:27:18 - responding officer is at Jennie-O Turkey Store. [22]
    • 10/15/18 12:15:13 - faxed press release to Ontonagon County Sheriff's Dept. [22]
    • 10/15/18 12:35:46 - reporting officer is enroute to the office with dog from the residence. [22]
    • 10/15/18 13:28:26 - reporting officer advised dog was left with family. [22]
    • 10/15/18 13:49:49 - responding officer requested to contact Anderson Dairy to advise them of a search of the area for a missing person. Requesting to park in their yard.
    • 10/15/18 15:20 - Amber Alert issued [22]
    • 10/15/18 evening - Miami Police Department tweeted about possible sighting. “Endangered Juvenile, Jayne Closs from Barron, WI, may have been seen in the afternoon of 10/15/18, in the area of N.W. 27 Ave and 11 St. If it was her, she was in a black Ford Explorer with a possible WI plate of I60WER. If you have any information please call 911 immediately.” [18]
    • 10/16/17 11:00 - Press conference at BCJC [3]
    • 10/16/18 16:00 - Press conference at BCSD [3]
    • 10/16/18 19:00 - Prayer vigil at St. Peter Catholic Church, Cameron, WI [11]
    • 10/17/18 16:00 - Press conference at BCSD [3]
    • 10/17/18 19:00 - Local Town Hall for Barron County residents at WITC in Rice Lake at 1900 College Drive in the Conference Center [3]
      • To offer law enforcement the opportunity to connect with the citizens of Barron County, and have a private dialogue about how our community is doing. [15]
    • 10/18/18 14:00 - Civilian search (asked for 100 volunteers) performed along Highway 8 between Barron and Turtle Lake, about 3 miles from the family's home, [1]
      • Routine search for articles of evidentiary value that may be related to Jayme’s disappearance [3]
      • Report to the intersection of State Highway 8 and 16th Street at 2:00 p.m. in the City of Barron [3]
      • Volunteers need to present a valid form of photo identification and be able to walk on uneven terrain. Proper footwear (hard soled shoes) and clothing are required [3]
      • The search turned up nothing of evidentiary value. [17]
    • 10/22/18 16:00 - press conference planned at Barron County Sheriff's Office [3]
      • Released 3 potential vehicles of interest, unknown plates [29]:
        • 2004-2010 Black Acura MDX
        • 2006-2010 Black Ford Edge
        • 2008-2014 Red/Orange Dodge Challenger
      • Requested 2000 civilian volunteers for search starting at Hungry Hollow Grounds [29]
      • Volunteers must be 18 years or older and present a picture form of identification. Volunteers must be able to walk on uneven terrain. Proper footwear (boots required) and cold weather clothing are required and may become dirty or stained. [29]
    • 10/22/18 18:00-20:00 - A Gathering of Hope at Riverview Middle School [3]
    • 10/23/18 09:00 - Search planned at Hungry Hollow Grounds [29]
    Crime Details:
    • Neighbor account
      • The Smrekars reported hearing two high-powered gunshots after 12:30 a.m. Monday. [2]
      • “I hear one shot and the second shot was even louder yet,” Joan Smrekar said. [26]
      • “It actually sounded like a car backfiring or something quite large,” her husband Tom Smrekar added. [26]
      • "JOAN SMREKAR, CLOSS` NEIGHBOR: We had come home about 11:30. We went to bed about quarter after 12:00. We were not sleeping and we heard the first shot and just a couple seconds is the second shot. And I asked my husband, I said, were those gunshots? Because they were so loud? And he said, yes, and he said, it`s a big gun and I rolled over and looked at the time on my clock, and it said 12:38. My clock is off by seven minutes per the Sheriff`s department, so this happened roughly around 12:30." [27]
    • 911 call
      • A 911 call came in early Monday from a cellphone inside the home, [12]
      • Fitzgerald said the 911 call came from the home [2]
      • Dispatcher heard a disturbance in the background. But no one spoke directly to the dispatcher [1]
      • Investigator are trying to enhance the audio for clues. [2]
      • "No one had direct contact with our dispatcher when they called 911, we hear background noise, things like that" [13]
      • He says the call lasted less than a minute and the only word that can be understood is “help”. [15]
      • On Monday October 15, 2018 at 12:58am the Barron County Sheriff’s Department received a 911 call from a subject asking for help at 1268 Hwy 8. [18]
      • 911 Call Log:
      • Explanation of call log, courtesy of Jethro4WS: AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #7
    • Police response / Crime Scene
      • Deputies arrived to the home less than four minutes later [1]
      • Deputies arrived just 4 minutes after the call ended [15]
      • No one was in sight and no vehicles were in the immediate area [1]
      • "Where deputies found the bullet-riddled bodies" [4] {Note: WS users have discounted this point in thread 9 as it is a photo caption, not part of the article, and not reported by any other sources.}
    • Crime Scene Processing
      • Picture of Chair: {Need link to source for chair pictures here}
        • Items on chair have been theorized as cushion ties, shoelaces, various restraints, some kind of tags, zip ties, wood splinters.
      • Picture of Suitcase: {Need link to source for suitcase pictures here}.
        • Believed to be brought to/from the scene by the Medical Examiner based on the ME carrying it, not wearing gloves, placing it on the ground, etc.
      • Picture of Glass Door: {Need link to source for door pictures here}.
        • Believed to have some seasonal clings (pumpkin) on the door, unknown if any evidentiary value.
      • Wood Door: {Need link to source for door pictures here}.
      • Picture of alleged "Rifle Bags" and Rakes [25]
        • Captioned by Daily Mail as "what appeared to be a rifle bag, a rake and several duffel sized bags" [25]
        • Some think they are rifle bags which could have been removed from the home. Others have mentioned they are unlikely to be evidence from the home as the officers are not handling them with gloves.
        • Another theory is that the bag contains a metal detector, and the rakes could have been used in searching or clearing brush while using the metal detectors. Further detail in this post by rainynights
      • No gun was found at the scene [1]
      • It is unclear if Jayme took any of her personal items with her. Fitzgerald said he was working on gathering information if she had a phone or other items she would have definitely taken with her. [16]
      • Multiple rounds were “spent” [18]
      • The family’s dog was alive inside the residence when deputies responded [18]
      • Authorities found a “violent crime scene.” [18]
      • When deputies arrived on scene they found two deceased adults. [18]
      • With help from the FBI, Barron County investigators searched for clues in and around the home, extending into neighbors’ yards. [21]
      • “They came through and they looked through the house in the garage and the buildings in the back,” [21]
    • Ongoing Investigation
      • The FBI and National Center for Missing and Exploited Children are assisting in the investigation. Fitzgerald says the FBI technicians are specialized in missing children. [5]
      • Deputies searched the area around the family's home with drones and infrared equipment, but they didn't find any clues as to her whereabouts [9]
      • Officers also were at Jayme's middle school talking with her friends and acquaintances, hoping to develop some leads [9]
      • Authorities just told volunteers that this is a 14 mile long crime scene. From city of Barron all the way to Turtle Lake. [11]
      • We're providing a number of resources -- investigative, technical, tactical intelligence as well as agents from our 'Child Abduction Rapid Deployment Team [12]
      • "Individuals who commit acts of violence may display changes in their behavior and individuals around that person may observe those changes." [12]
      • The death of her parents James and Denise now ruled a double homicide by gunshot [15]
      • The department says at this point there are no signs of drug or alcohol use and say this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene. [15]
      • They’re talking with friends, family and classmates as well as scouring Facebook and Snapchat for any sign of Jayme or any indication as to what happened. [15]
      • There is no history of family trouble or custody disputes [16]
      • [BS] declined to comment on the rest of the case and the family of [JC] and [DC]. He said he was advised by Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald to not to talk about it for the integrity of the investigation. [28]
    • Reward
    LE Statements:
    • October 15, 2018 at 12:58am the Barron County Sheriff’s Department received a 911 call from a subject asking for help at 1268 Hwy 8. [3]
    • When deputies arrived on scene they found two deceased adults. [3]
    • "We believe Jayme was in the home at the time of the homicides and we believe she's still in danger," Fitzgerald said this week. [1]
    • But the sheriff said he has a "100% expectation that she's alive." [1]
    • On HLN's "Crime & Justice" Wednesday night, Fitzgerald told host Ashleigh Banfield that deputies had recovered the cell phone from which the 911 call was made. [1]
    • "Is it a random attack or a targeted attack? I don't know that answer," Fitzgerald told reporters. [1]
    • Fitzgerald told Fox 9 the sheriff’s office has had zero calls to the home in the past. [2]
    • If you spent time with members of the Closs family recently, or if you have ever had a misunderstanding with members of the Closs family, or know someone who has, please call the tipline. [3]
    • People may act differently shortly after committing a violent act. You may have observed such behaviors and not realized it at the time. We are asking you to think back to earlier this week and let us know if you’ve noticed any of the following:
      • Changes in Routine:
        • They will miss work. The absence will be sudden and unplanned. They may either be a “no show” or they may offer a reasonable excuse such as illness, death in the family, car trouble, etc.
        • They may miss scheduled appointments. These appointments or commitments may include medical appointments, a regular responsibility to a friend or family member, like caring for an elderly relative.
        • They may suddenly leave town, either with no explanation or with some reasonable explanation.
      • Changes in Normal Behavior:
        • There may be changes in their usual consumption of alcohol and/or drugs. This could be an increase or a decrease in drinking or drug use.
        • They may make a change in how they look or make it difficult to identify them, such as changing the look of their vehicle or selling or getting rid of their vehicle.
        • They may pay too much or too little attention to the progress of this investigation that seems out of the ordinary. They may try to find new information about the investigation or, they may quickly turn off the news and social media or try to redirect conversations about the victims or their families.
        • They may be anxious, nervous, or irritable. They may withdraw from normal activities. [3]
    • The search for Jayme Closs has continued to intensify and serious unrelated criminal activity was uncovered in the Barron area and law enforcement action was deemed necessary [3]
    • "We've searched the area around the residence […] we've used drones, we've used infrared […] we've searched the school, we've met with her friends, we're working closely with the Barron Riverview Middle School where she attends school" [13]
    • "To say the public's not in danger, I can't say that, but I want the public to be aware we know of no immediate danger, we know of no other threats in the area but everyone should be aware of their surroundings all the time" [13]
    • "We don't have a suspect or a vehicle, and those are two requirements needed for an Amber Alert, so we can't produce an Amber Alert." [13]
    • The sheriff says […] investigators have been talking with Jayme’s friends, but so far have no leads on a possible suspect. [5]
    • he dismissed a tip placing Jayme's whereabouts in Miami as "not credible." [12]
    • Jayme was last seen at a family gathering Sunday afternoon, Fitzgerald said. [12]
    • Sheriff Fitzgerald is asking that same community for help. “Walk your properties,” he says. “There will be many hunters in the area in the upcoming weekend and daily. Check your cabins, walk your land and report you feel anything you think is important to us.” [15]
    • "Is it a random attack or a targeted attack? I don't know that answer," Fitzgerald told reporters. [17]
    • “We believe Jayme was home based on the evidence in our case. Some of it from that 911 call and some of it is part of the active investigation, and we’re not able to comment on why we believe that.” [18]
    • He asked the public to continue providing tips, and to report anyone changing their behavior, such as changes to appearance or suddenly going out of town. [18]
    • He said police “redid” the crime scene with the state crime lab to make sure they didn’t miss anything. [18]
    • Jayme attended a Cameron School but transferred to Riverview Middle School in Barron because her family caretaker moved to that area, said Fitzgerald. [23]
    • "After more discussion with Fitzgerald on Saturday morning, Fitzgerald said he was not releasing any information about how the door got opened. He said when the deputies arrived at the house, James was found dead at the door." [24]
    Other Resources
    Sources - Click the button to expand
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  6. liltexans

    liltexans Retired WS Staff

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    Please continue the discussion here. I would also encourage everyone to think before you post. Remember that you alone own your words and thoughts that you post in any case. If Jayme turns up alive (hopefully) or not, she and/or her family may one day read your posts. Be sure that you are comfortable with that thought. As @Tricia frequently reminds us, words have power. Be willing to stand behind what you post with the full knowledge that a 13 year old child is missing and her parents have been brutally murdered.
  7. liltexans

    liltexans Retired WS Staff

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    We are getting a lot of alerts that some posters are blaming the victim. While it is NOT okay at all to state that Jayme is definitely responsible for any part of this crime or her disappearance, we are allowing members to state their opinion that Jayme could be involved in her own disappearance. This does NOT include blaming members of Jayme's family, such as her aunts or grandparents.

    I would also add that you must own your opinions one way or the other in this or any other case. If you are of the opinion that Jayme could have been involved somehow and another poster disagrees with you, DO NOT complain to the moderators that others are bullying you because they disagree. Remember that Jayme is a 13 year old child and she will hopefully be found alive and may one day read your posts. Would you be comfortable telling a child that you believe she is a criminal if it turns out she had nothing to do with this heinous crime?
  8. Whiskers16

    Whiskers16 Retired WS Staff

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    Hi all,

    Since there have been no new developments in a while and the threads have not been as active, we've allowed some discussion about things like gangs, drug cartel, witness protection, etc. Please move on from these topics unless there is some LE/MSM statement in the future to indicate it is relevant to this case.

    8paws, Alcina, Bravo and 6 others like this.
  9. Whiskers16

    Whiskers16 Retired WS Staff

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    Posting or discussing anything from the social media pages of family members is not allowed. You know that episode of Oprah where she tells everyone "You get a car!" ? That's me with warning points for anyone who discusses stuff from family social media.
    EmilyVan, Jessthinkin, 8paws and 11 others like this.
  10. Mica

    Mica Well-Known Member

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  11. CocoChanel

    CocoChanel Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Bringing blinkofani’s post forward from the last thread:

    These are good thoughts.

    IIRC, it was a power wash company, and it was owned by/had some connection to a Closs extended family member. This would fit with the sense that family, in some of their interviews, seemed to have some unexpressed suspicions of who might be involved. I could see a former (or even current) employee of an extended family member being a person of interest, especially if some hires have been parolees.
  12. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    Someone on the last thread asked what ETA ("Edited to Add") stands for and I just wanted to provide the below WS link which helps me a lot. It has a lot of the common abbreviations we use here at WS.

    Hope this helps some of our newer members.

    Websleuths Lingo
    CuriousMaine, Jim_M, Damarna and 13 others like this.
  13. daisy6441

    daisy6441 Well-Known Member

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    I was curious if it could have been someone who had a problem with them and lured in an accomplice by promising Jayme to them?
  14. tiffkinsadder

    tiffkinsadder Well-Known Member

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  15. jayaxx

    jayaxx Active Member

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    I pop in every few days and it is SO disheartening that they sheriff isn't doing anything new to spur leads. No press conferences (even if there arent super duper major updates). Not releasing the 911 call (redacted or otherwise). Nothing. We are just sitting here watching a bad situation get worse by the day and leads get fewer and the case get colder. :(:(:(:(:(:(

    In my opinion, and this is something I just arrived at recently, the 911 call provides evidence of Jayme being badly hurt and/or killed, and the Sheriff's office is holding back the tape simply because it is now EXCLUSIVELY evidence insofar as a future trial and conviction. If they truly believed that she may be alive out there, I cannot imagine they would be withholding it entirely.
    kirkassoc, 8paws, Damarna and 2 others like this.
  16. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I can add that one to my list of possible scenarios.
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  17. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    I definitely believe this was targeted and personal. What I can’t decide is WHO was targeted. It has been said over and over that the parents were good people with no known enemies. That doesn’t rule out someone with a perceived hatred for either parent – something only known to or imagined by the killer. This could be for something real or imagined. It could be for something that occurred over a year or two ago and some other event such as the break-up of a long term relationship or loss of a loved one triggered this act. If this is the case, the killer knew Jayme was there and part of his revenge was to take her with him. This happened with the Bible/Freeman abduction where the target was the Freeman’s father and the two girls were taken as a secondary action. Although, if one or both of the parents were the target I believe the odds are that he would kill Jayme on the spot as well.

    Jayme as the target? Possible and I most definitely don’t rule it out. He saw her somewhere and possibly became obsessed with her. Possibly following her with her parents home to learn of her location. It didn’t have to be that evening but maybe sometime earlier. My problem with Jayme as the target is if he knew where she lived and possibly where she went to school why didn’t he take her from someplace away from her parents? Taking her from her home at night just seems to have so many things that can go wrong. If he can’t bring his gun to bear upon coming through the door and gets into a wrestling match with the father that can turn out bad for him because James was no little guy. There could be a gun in the home and he could end up dead. Even though it isn’t a large home the chances he doesn’t know the layout or where furniture is located and it is dark. (Unless he had been there before for some home or HVAC repair.) If he takes Jayme from someplace away from the parents, her disappearance may not be noticed for much longer than what happened here. Plus here he risks leaving forensic evidence, but if he takes her from someplace where she is alone LE may not be able to find the crime scene.

    I believe the odds that this is a military trained person are very slim. As a member of the military I know that it is a myth that someone in the military is trained to do this. A few Army soldiers or Marines may have some training and fewer still have actually used it. About the only Navy or Air Force who receive this training would be SEAL’s and they comprise less 2-3 percent of Naval personnel. This was a specialized offensive tactic and almost all Navy and Air Force that do have combat training are trained in defensive tactics. I believe this is more likely a military special ops wanna-be and not someone with the specialized military training.

    I believe this was planned, but NOT well-planned. He got lucky. He managed to get the upper hand on the father even after kicking in the door. He did not get shot by one of the parents. LE all approached the scene from one direction and if he went west they never saw him. He left little or no forensic evidence.

    Sorry for the long and rambling post, but this crime is bizarre and on the surface doesn’t appear logical. Then again, criminals don’t always think in a logical manner.
  18. daisy6441

    daisy6441 Well-Known Member

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    Military style doesn't necessarily mean an actual military service member. There are groups out there who study and practice military maneuvers.
  19. Mistermagoo

    Mistermagoo Well-Known Member

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    Just a general question. I know that WS has policies about not sleuthing anyone that is not a POI. They also have the same policies about sleuthing family members and I understand why and I get it. Are these policies only for public forums? Are we allowed to have private conversations and discuss the above?
    DancingMuse likes this.
  20. BlinkOfAnI

    BlinkOfAnI Well-Known Member

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    @Mistermagoo I am a little confused on the word sleuthing itself since it indicates investigating someone. Some info is not the result of such nor is the info accusatory. It's simply info that happens to be connected. Hoping for clarity. Can a connection found involving a victim or family member be talked about if there is no negative connotation, blame, etc being stated about them. EX: Inadvertent contact and possibly unaware association of someone not known to be of questionable character. The victim is in no way responsible for anything aside from innocent, random, or unrelated to case, contact. Gray areas are tough because no one wants to break the rules and I hate bothering the mods to ask (though I have lol)

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