AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #30

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Were there missed opportunities by LE to capture the perp (s) b4 they got away? The Closs family lives less than 3 miles from LE..it's the wee hours of the morning...why would all of the LE come to the scene versus a couple of them setting up a road block to the East if they(LE) were coming from the West..?? No sense of urgency IMO.
 
Were there missed opportunities by LE to capture the perp (s) b4 they got away? The Closs family lives less than 3 miles from LE..it's the wee hours of the morning...why would all of the LE come to the scene versus a couple of them setting up a road block to the East if they(LE) were coming from the West..?? No sense of urgency IMO.
Perp(s) would have been LOOOOOOOOONG gone before LE could assess the situation at the Closs house and then take time to set up a road block.
 
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I wonder if they had what we call a rummage or garage sale?

That also is a thought that never occurred to me which should have when I thought of selling something. A great location for it. I know of people in families even or groups of friends who will pick the person's house in the group with the most amount of traffic. Food for thought.
 
Hi websleuthers and happy Saturday.

Was kicking around an idea last night and I'm sure it's already been brought up and discussed but it's hard to keep up with absolutely everything here.

I'm playing around with the idea that Jayme being taken is a red herring and was done to throw LE off. It started with someone mentioning that Mark Fuhrman believes Denise was the target. Then I saw the case yesterday of Dan Wozniak-- basically he wanted money from a guy he knew,Sam, in order to fund his upcoming wedding/honeymoon. He killed Sam and took his wallet, phone, passport, but that was not the end of it. He then also texted a friend of Sam's, Julie, from Sam's phone and asked her to come to the apartment. Sam wasn't considered missing at this time so Julie had no reason not to believe it was actually Sam texting her. She went to his apartment and Dan was there and killed her. He also made it appear she had been sexually assaulted. Sam, and all his possessions that one would need to be on the run, were gone so the most straightforward path was that he had killed Julie and fled. With the evidence available that was indeed the most logical scenario, and it is what LE did first go on. But good detective work eventually led to Dan, whose motive was strictly financial. But you have a deceased woman in a missing man's apartment who appears to have been sexually assaulted and your initial theory isn't that the missing man is also dead because a friend of his killed him and set the whole thing up.

All this to say, the most straightforward path to me in this case has been "Jayme missing = Jayme the motive and target" and that could still be true. But I think it's just as likely that perp wanted James and/or Denise dead and then took Jayme so LE would think they're looking for a child/sexual predator.

Of course if this is the case LE would most likely have SOME link between perp(s) and J and D to go on. But bear in mind that it's been two and a half months. Some people say that if there was a connection LE would've found it by now. I ask you to not think so concrete on that. I'm not sure of the timeline in the Dan Wozniak case but it probably did take some time. It started with Sam's dad monitoring his bank account and that led to a pizza place but it ended up that his card was being used by a pal of Dan at first. So I definitely don't believe it's absolute that if there is some prior connection between perp and Closses it would've been found by now, not at all.
 
No. Just no.
And note that across Lake Superior from Ontonagon is... Minnesota. If someone wanted to get to northern MN there's a lot easier ways! Barron is a straight shot to Duluth, and from there a person could head to Fort Francis or Thunder Bay... a heck of a lot easier than going across Lake Superior.

Looks like fun! I bet it is warm out there. There is no ice on their beards.

Exactly why would a perp go to Canada? I don’t get it.
 
Going back to our time line at the beginning something caught my eye. At approximately 12:15 that afternoon a press release was faxed to Ontonagon County Sheriff's Department.

Searching through Google the only Ontonagon County I can find is in northern Michigan and Barron County is on the other side of the state from Michigan. I've missed some entire threads here so maybe this has been discussed. Was it ever determined if that actually had anything to do with Jayme's case? That just seems strange. In case it was a typo, I don't see where any of the adjacent counties had a name beginning with 'O'.
I have been following this case thread since the beginning, and I do recall there was a reason someone posted re. why the Ontonagon County office was contacted. (it's been so long I forget why lol) From my own recollection, Ontonagon is the head office of a more specialized crime field such as trafficking or something like that. (I'm using that as an example)
 
Going back to our time line at the beginning something caught my eye. At approximately 12:15 that afternoon a press release was faxed to Ontonagon County Sheriff's Department.

Searching through Google the only Ontonagon County I can find is in northern Michigan and Barron County is on the other side of the state from Michigan. I've missed some entire threads here so maybe this has been discussed. Was it ever determined if that actually had anything to do with Jayme's case? That just seems strange. In case it was a typo, I don't see where any of the adjacent counties had a name beginning with 'O'.

I have not read from your post through the end of this thread so I apologize if any comment is a duplicate of someone else's. I too wondered about this and still do. I finally put it down to maybe a statewide or adjoining state alert went out and maybe this county asked for more info, a confirmation, poster, picture, etc.

I was not satisfied that was the reason though and still have no idea. Maybe they were advised the MI county is some trafficking route so it was a cover our bases thing before it can be determined what happened. I wondered about initially if the family or some member had a cabin there because as you said, it is not adjoining in any way to Barron County or even on the right side of Wisconsin. I thought in early stages perhaps LE asked family members if she ran off alone or ran with someone scared to death is there anywhere she would go that she feels safe and maybe someone mentioned a cabin or cottage in the family?

Most likely this county did not expect a crime of this nature and the call log is just the early stages and scrambling to try to make sense of everything and going from the first ideas or leads from family who also are probably shocked and thinking off the top of their heads.

Yet there are things in the call log that make one wonder and perhaps that is not odd because again they are scrambling with a huge crime that was unexpected and unlike anything that has happened before. Yet there are things in the call log that because people would like her found and safe and because nothing is really known that make one question it looking for anything because as far as we know this girl has a chance yet and may be alive... Like the home being east of Barron or the suicide entry, probably both explainable and in the early stages. Cases of all children get to me but this one really does because she still could have a chance, some don't have a chance in hell. She was not found shot with her parents so there is still hope.

If things are not being shared to build a case then I would rather see them not shared. Or if the reason is hoping she is kept safe and sharing anything could trigger a perp if she is still alive, it is better they are not shared.

People want to help and people care and I would guess the frustration of the family is a million times what we feel and they are putting their faith in LE. And I doubt they know any more, other than they would have more knowledge of the three Closs members than we do.

It must be the time of year, heartfelt prayers for Jayme and her loved ones.

Sorry for the rambling on.
 
I have been following this case thread since the beginning, and I do recall there was a reason someone posted re. why the Ontonagon County office was contacted. (it's been so long I forget why lol) From my own recollection, Ontonagon is the head office of a more specialized crime field such as trafficking or something like that. (I'm using that as an example)

It is bizarre as it is small. There would be far better resources in Minneapolis, St.Paul , Madison, or Milwaukee or Chicago.
 
No. Just no.
And note that across Lake Superior from Ontonagon is... Minnesota. If someone wanted to get to northern MN there's a lot easier ways! Barron is a straight shot to Duluth, and from there a person could head to Fort Francis or Thunder Bay... a heck of a lot easier than going across Lake Superior.

Trying to find it again, but pretty sure this was a familial contact.
 
Were there missed opportunities by LE to capture the perp (s) b4 they got away? The Closs family lives less than 3 miles from LE..it's the wee hours of the morning...why would all of the LE come to the scene versus a couple of them setting up a road block to the East if they(LE) were coming from the West..?? No sense of urgency IMO.

Le was responding to a hang up call. They probably were not even using lights, much less blocking roads, at that point.
 
I heard the sheriff say, or saw in quotes, that James and Denise were killed instantly. I wish someone who has been on the thread the whole time could help me with the link. It may have been in a radio interview. Anyway, he was clear about it. It may be how they determined a timeline, i.e body temperature already cooling a little bit but not much. Jmo

Anyone here from day one? I did not imagine this...jmo
 
https://nypost.com/2018/09/05/teacher-heads-to-trial-for-allegedly-raping-teen-in-his-home/

This is 15 hours away so likely too long drive to make sense....I guess...

But if u read the how he did it...basically a bluebrint .... on a possiblity

loser 25 to 60 yr old only needs phone and few photos that aren’t him

Wisconsin giving Alabama run for messed up drugs/incest/pedo/weirdness..

33 years as a teacher and just now he starts having a relationship with a child? Maybe.

Anyway, it goes to show how someone can hide who they are in plain sight
 
Hi websleuthers and happy Saturday.

Was kicking around an idea last night and I'm sure it's already been brought up and discussed but it's hard to keep up with absolutely everything here.

I'm playing around with the idea that Jayme being taken is a red herring and was done to throw LE off. It started with someone mentioning that Mark Fuhrman believes Denise was the target. Then I saw the case yesterday of Dan Wozniak-- basically he wanted money from a guy he knew,Sam, in order to fund his upcoming wedding/honeymoon. He killed Sam and took his wallet, phone, passport, but that was not the end of it. He then also texted a friend of Sam's, Julie, from Sam's phone and asked her to come to the apartment. Sam wasn't considered missing at this time so Julie had no reason not to believe it was actually Sam texting her. She went to his apartment and Dan was there and killed her. He also made it appear she had been sexually assaulted. Sam, and all his possessions that one would need to be on the run, were gone so the most straightforward path was that he had killed Julie and fled. With the evidence available that was indeed the most logical scenario, and it is what LE did first go on. But good detective work eventually led to Dan, whose motive was strictly financial. But you have a deceased woman in a missing man's apartment who appears to have been sexually assaulted and your initial theory isn't that the missing man is also dead because a friend of his killed him and set the whole thing up.

All this to say, the most straightforward path to me in this case has been "Jayme missing = Jayme the motive and target" and that could still be true. But I think it's just as likely that perp wanted James and/or Denise dead and then took Jayme so LE would think they're looking for a child/sexual predator.

Of course if this is the case LE would most likely have SOME link between perp(s) and J and D to go on. But bear in mind that it's been two and a half months. Some people say that if there was a connection LE would've found it by now. I ask you to not think so concrete on that. I'm not sure of the timeline in the Dan Wozniak case but it probably did take some time. It started with Sam's dad monitoring his bank account and that led to a pizza place but it ended up that his card was being used by a pal of Dan at first. So I definitely don't believe it's absolute that if there is some prior connection between perp and Closses it would've been found by now, not at all.

I also do not know why but my instincts are a parent (or both) was/were the target or the family. I have no real reason. I just do not see calling attention to oneself (gunshots, kicking the door in, LE close by) and committing two murders to take the girl. However, if you were a coworker or some such or met at church and had some issue and had a beef with a parent and thought maybe just possibly someone might know that or think of it it would sure throw the motive off possibly, many sex offenders in the area and the girl not killed but missing. People the last few weeks are saying this looks planned and calculated I think largely due to the sheriff making it sound as if no DNA and four minutes, five feet, etc. If this was planned and calculated then one would plan like your scenario above with Wozniak, to throw the investigation off with the motive, to have an alibi and more. Sadly that is the least chance for this girl because if they/he were never after her as their main motive, then there is no reason to keep her, just a reason to make it look as if that was the aim, to have her and take her alive.
 
I heard the sheriff say, or saw in quotes, that James and Denise were killed instantly. I wish someone who has been on the thread the whole time could help me with the link. It may have been in a radio interview. Anyway, he was clear about it. It may be how they determined a timeline, i.e body temperature already cooling a little bit but not much. Jmo

Anyone here from day one? I did not imagine this...jmo


Not day one. But it was daily mail... think that was phone call with Fitzgerald they turned into article


————

According to Fitzgerald the killer was in the Closs home for only four minutes during which they stepped just five feet into the open plan house, shot James and Denise and took Jayme.

Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he said.

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online
 
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