WI WI - Vernon Co, WhtFem 50-65,261UFWI, severed hands, dentures, May'84

[masnitram]

Thanks to CarlK, tatertot, and Chaddylex for their help and opinions on this particular submission. I sent a PM to them basically asking if I was crazy to make this comparison and received very encouraging replies from each of them.

From the blog I have been in contact with Shirley Stevens' neice and have sent the information along to the Vernon Co Sherrifs Department as well.


Links for Shirley Stevens and the UID are below.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...s_shirley.html

http://insearchofshirleyfrew.blogspot.com/

compared to:

*WARNING- POST MORTEM photos on the Porchlight link!
http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobe...showtopic=1984

http://doenetwork.org/cases/261ufwi.html

 

[masnitram]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stevens_shirley.html

For some reason the link to her (Shirley Stevens) doesn't work...(not sure what I did)...so here it is.

 

[masnitram]

Response from Shirley Stevens' niece...

*I did edit her reply email; I wanted to stick to the possibility of Shirley matching the Jane Doe based on appearance. If the info I took out is needed at a later time, and with her nieces blessing...I will share what I took out from the reply....which was more about Shirley's life; but again...not really relevant for ID purposes. Plus I don't know if I were in their shoes that I'd want info out like that regarding my Grandmother....

"Thank you for sending the morgue photos. I still can't be sure if its Shirley. I wish I had some way of taking an old photograph of Shirley and putting it into a computer to show the aging process. The nose is like Shirleys and the mouth could be like hers downturned and something about the hairline could be too. Also, the Frews have big ears with long ear lobes and this woman look as if she had similar ears. Shirley was always so thin, but you never know what aging, cirrhosis of the liver, menopause and various other medical factors could cause a person to gain weight. I do know that my father, Shirley's brother had Type O blood, so that much holds true. And my dad was 79 when he passed away and he looked very similar to this morgue photo of this woman, so who's to say as she got older she and her brother may have grown to look similar?[/B] Or am I reading too much into this? Was this woman small boned?

(deleted section of the mail.....don't find it relevant for ID'ing her)

I'm going to send my Mom and my sister these photos so that they can see any similarities or family resemblance. I'll let you know if we should proceed.

 

[CarlK90245]

I remember somewhere reading (or maybe it was a video) that authorities were thinking that this woman might be Evelyn Hartley.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hartley_evelyn.html

If they are willing to check out a long shot like that, perhaps Shirley Stevens isn't so far-fetched.

 

[masnitram]

I remember somewhere reading (or maybe it was a video) that authorities were thinking that this woman might be Evelyn Hartley.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hartley_evelyn.html

If they are willing to check out a long shot like that, perhaps Shirley Stevens isn't so far-fetched.

Wow! I know that ANYTHING is possible but really!?!?!?! I'm from Wisconsin and wouldn't make THAT comparison...but again I guess anything is possible.

 

[chaddylex]

Response from Shirley Stevens' niece...

*I did edit her reply email; I wanted to stick to the possibility of Shirley matching the Jane Doe based on appearance. If the info I took out is needed at a later time, and with her nieces blessing...I will share what I took out from the reply....which was more about Shirley's life; but again...not really relevant for ID purposes. Plus I don't know if I were in their shoes that I'd want info out like that regarding my Grandmother....

"Thank you for sending the morgue photos. I still can't be sure if its Shirley. I wish I had some way of taking an old photograph of Shirley and putting it into a computer to show the aging process. The nose is like Shirleys and the mouth could be like hers downturned and something about the hairline could be too. Also, the Frews have big ears with long ear lobes and this woman look as if she had similar ears. Shirley was always so thin, but you never know what aging, cirrhosis of the liver, menopause and various other medical factors could cause a person to gain weight. I do know that my father, Shirley's brother had Type O blood, so that much holds true. And my dad was 79 when he passed away and he looked very similar to this morgue photo of this woman, so who's to say as she got older she and her brother may have grown to look similar?[/B] Or am I reading too much into this? Was this woman small boned?

(deleted section of the mail.....don't find it relevant for ID'ing her)

I'm going to send my Mom and my sister these photos so that they can see any similarities or family resemblance. I'll let you know if we should proceed.

Yay Masnitram... glad you are making some headway... I hope they get back to you soon. I feel for all these families that have missing loved ones. I hope this family gets closure soon. (If this is her, then they will have a homicide case on their hands also)

 

[masnitram]

Yay Masnitram... glad you are making some headway... I hope they get back to you soon. I feel for all these families that have missing loved ones. I hope this family gets closure soon. (If this is her, then they will have a homicide case on their hands also)

Shirley's niece is in the process of passing along the information to some of her other family members. One declined, which I can respect honestly...maybe more peace for some in not knowing...while I'm not wired that way I do understand.

Latest email:

"I'm going to talk to my husband about this and see what he sees in the photo. I talked with my sister tonight to see if she wanted me to forward the morgue photos so she could see if she recognizes anything, but she decided she didn't want to see the photos.

You have a great weekend too and thank you for what you do to try to find people."

 

[Danaya]

Honestly though, if it was a morgue photo of a sibling of mine and I had never seen morgue photos... that would be freaky to me. You just never know how gruesome the person looks, even now, it is really gross and I can't imagine KNOWING the person let alone being their relative!

Good work on the progress, though.

 

[masnitram]

Honestly though, if it was a morgue photo of a sibling of mine and I had never seen morgue photos... that would be freaky to me. You just never know how gruesome the person looks, even now, it is really gross and I can't imagine KNOWING the person let alone being their relative!

Good work on the progress, though.

In hindsight I really shouldn't have even gone there with the photos. (Rereading the forum rules would have been a good start). "Rookie" mistake...but moving forward I am going to sell this to the LE in Vernon County and where Shirley disappeared; at least to smack them up and make them take a look. I don't like making the initial call; I'll send an email and if they call great; I will certainly talk to them. (Mensch, if you read this I bet that sounds familiar ;-) ) I have gotten nowhere with Vernon County as of yet, but I should learn to be a bit more patient.

 

[Mensch]

In hindsight I really shouldn't have even gone there with the photos. (Rereading the forum rules would have been a good start). "Rookie" mistake...but moving forward I am going to sell this to the LE in Vernon County and where Shirley disappeared; at least to smack them up and make them take a look. I don't like making the initial call; I'll send an email and if they call great; I will certainly talk to them. (Mensch, if you read this I bet that sounds familiar ;-) ) I have gotten nowhere with Vernon County as of yet, but I should learn to be a bit more patient.

BBM
Yeppers! I know what ya mean. But since Le does not generally post a contact email (rare anyway) on their website, I can get away with ":stupid and cheerful". I find the Coroner's office in the county where the deceased case is and contact them. Actually, they are more interested in clearing their books and are certainly easier on the nerves. I send them an introductory email, kinda serves as a cover letter. I send a cc to some other agency in the county such as a sheriff or dps and let them know I cannot contact the originating agency. They do call back. Each wants a piece of the pie so to speak especially if it is a high-porfile case. Meanwhile the coroner, examiner or anthropologist is busy with real work!
Sorry is this does not make sense.I just left another Chanukah party and I swear I never ate so many donuts in all my years on the force!:dance:
Carry on Masnitram...great work!

 

[Danaya]

OT, but Mensch, were you a police officer? :waitasec:

 

[Mensch]

Yes, Danaya. I would not trade anything for the experience but would not take a million $ to do it again or more than that to recommend it to anyone.

 

[Danaya]

Really... I've thought about it before, but I'm going to school for something entirely different and don't think I could handle the stress and working with a bunch of "alphamales". Why do you say that you wouldn't recommend it?

 

[Cymro]

TBH it seems pretty good as long shot matches go. I see some resemblance allowing for 15 years' alcohol abuse, menopause, etc. Height is wrong - approx 4" seems quite a bit to be out, especially when the UID is taller than the misper.

I've also done an SSDI search and there aren't any matches for Shirleys with that DOB that match. It'd be good to know, for data mining etc., where Shirley's SSN was issued so that we could look at partial matches.

 

[masnitram]

TBH it seems pretty good as long shot matches go. I see some resemblance allowing for 15 years' alcohol abuse, menopause, etc. Height is wrong - approx 4" seems quite a bit to be out, especially when the UID is taller than the misper.

I've also done an SSDI search and there aren't any matches for Shirleys with that DOB that match. It'd be good to know, for data mining etc., where Shirley's SSN was issued so that we could look at partial matches.

There is a photo of Shirley on the blog where she is at least a "human head" taller then the other ladies in the photo. Unless they're all 4'7" or 12 years of age (considering the photo it is safe to say they're not kids)...I'm guessing she is taller then they think. Also consider that the blog really spells out they don't much about her...even though she IS a relative.

I'm having a really busy day so I'm not clear but...check the blog, I believe she was born in Montana....I could be wrong, but that is what is coming to mind.

 

[masnitram]

There is a photo of Shirley on the blog where she is at least a "human head" taller then the other ladies in the photo. Unless they're all 4'7" or 12 years of age (considering the photo it is safe to say they're not kids)...I'm guessing she is taller then they think. Also consider that the blog really spells out they don't much about her...even though she IS a relative.

I'm having a really busy day so I'm not clear but...check the blog, I believe she was born in Montana....I could be wrong, but that is what is coming to mind.

Cymro- Sorry if I came off sarcastic or hostile in anyway; I reread what I wrote and just wanted to clarify that.

I'm not sure how the cards are issued honestly, but Shirley was born in Montana. She has been known to have lived in both Washington state and California and currently her case ,according to the Charley Project link, is being handled by the Long Beach PD.

 

[Cymro]

No sarcasm noted - I think you have a very good point. TBH she did not look especially petite, and body demographics can be wrong too. If the data are accurate on both sides, it's not a match - but that's a pretty big if.

Shirley and the UID would both have been born before the first issue of social security numbers. I think SSNs were originally issued when people first got a job as an adult, which would probably be around 1939 in Shirley's case, SSNs having been introduced in 1936 (so there may have been some delay in getting a number depending on how long the scheme took to roll out).

If we knew where the SSN was issued we could check it for consistency with the number recorded and use it to find people with similar names/dates of birth/SSNs so that if there were a data error and Shirley is recorded in the database somewhere, we'd have a good chance of finding her.

 

[rcoope23]

Did this woman ever get Id'd? I found a possible match with a surgical scar like the deceased.

www.doenetwork.org/cases/711dfky.html



The Doe Network:
Case File 711DFKY



Dixie Barker
Missing since February 8, 1983 from Ashland, Boyd County, Kentucky.
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Vital Statistics
•Date Of Birth: December 31, 1926
•Age at Time of Disappearance: 56 years old
•Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'2"; 105 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blue eyes; brown hair.
•Marks, Scars: She has a scar from appendix surgery and a scar on the upper leg close to hip.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Circumstances of Disappearance
Barker was last seen at at the trailer she shared with her son, in the area of the 3400 block of South 29th Street in Ashland, Kentucky in the morning of February 8, 1983. No one has heard from her since.
No eyewitnesses ever came forward to say that they saw her leaving the trailer park, which had approximately 60 homes. There was nothing missing from her trailer to suggest that she had left willingly. Her clothes, purse and other personal belongings were there when her disappearance was reported three days after she was last seen.
Police have had several suspects but have not had enough evidence to arrest anyone.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

Ashland Police Department
606-327-2072

Agency Case Number: 83-03673

NCIC Number:
M-190351526
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:
Namus
The Courier Journal

 

[webrocket]

here is the Namus link for this UID and there are no rule-outs listed:

https://identifyus.org/cases/4786

ever hear anything more Masnitram from either the family or LE?

 

[masnitram]

here is the Namus link for this UID and there are no rule-outs listed:

https://identifyus.org/cases/4786

ever hear anything more Masnitram from either the family or LE?

I haven't heard back from LE, I talked with an officer in Vernon Co. about Shirley Frew and basically handed him the reigns. I was told that if anything matched up he would get back in touch with me, but as of yet...nothing.