Woman in helmet

[Redbird]

In the first picture she has no shoulder. This picture must have been altered somehow. I would like to have norestforthewicked's comments about how this picture could have been made.

 

[WildHuncher]

In the first picture she has no shoulder. This picture must have been altered somehow. I would like to have norestforthewicked's comments about how this picture could have been made.

There's no need to invoke trickery if her shoulders are with her arms, behind her back. Occam's Razor.

Edit: Nancy Grace 394 is the big version for pixel-sleuthing.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00394.jpg

 

[norest4thewicked]

No big trick or magic in this. Its simple the angle and lighting. The right shoulder is normal, but she is angled enough (pulling her left shoulder back at an angle) that it appears she has no shoulders. Also, the way the light is hitting her is deceiving. If you enlarge the photo to it's max by putting your curser on the photo and holding down alt and hitting your + sign, you can make it very large. You will see the other shoulder through her hair. It's not exactly what would be called an optical illusion, but its somewhat of one.

 

[WildHuncher]

I wasn't trying to be obscure, just trying to avoid dramatic overstatement. Indeed, you can see the round little nub of the other shoulder through her hair. The point is that her shoulders appear amazingly narrow in the top picture compared to any of the others and her arms are invisible. Her appearance is in every way consistent with her being hog-tied, arms behind her. You can't see enough to really confirm it, of course.

To better understand it, go to a mirror. Put your arms together behind you and watch how skinny your shoulder region gets. That's picture one.

 

[WildHuncher]

I wasn't trying to be obscure, just trying to avoid dramatic overstatement. Indeed, you can see the round little nub of the other shoulder through her hair. The point is that her shoulders appear amazingly narrow in the top picture compared to any of the others and her arms are invisible. Her appearance is in every way consistent with her being hog-tied, arms behind her. You can't see enough to really confirm it, of course.

To better understand it, go to a mirror. Put your arms together behind you and watch how skinny your shoulder region gets. That's picture one.

OTOH: There's a scrap of what might be white fabric on the right side of the picture, at the very bottom next to where her hair disappears out of the frame. She could just be putting a shirt on, getting ready to jump back on the bike and go home after a morning of naughtily innocent fun.

 

[WildHuncher]

The right shoulder is normal, but she is angled enough (pulling her left shoulder back at an angle) that it appears she has no shoulders...

Now I do see the right shoulder as being nearer than I was perceiving it before. I still think it's actually back, but not as far away as the other one. It could well be she's putting on (or taking off) a shirt.

 

[plait]

This girl seemed to have been well trained as a dancer. I just wondered if a dance teacher would not have remembered her.

 

[WildHuncher]

I realize this place could be almost anywhere in the East if not the world, but he's known to have taken two women to the Rockefeller Estate/Preserve/Park in NY State. One of them even came back.

An image Google:

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1020&bih=567

 

[plait]

If dancer girl is the one in the back bend pic I wonder if she could she have fallen, and gotten hurt? Maybe RA was trying something kinky with her thats why the helmet is on. She removed it, fell, but this time it was fatal. Instead of getting help he finished her off.

 

[WildHuncher]

If dancer girl is the one in the back bend pic I wonder if she could she have fallen, and gotten hurt? Maybe RA was trying something kinky with her thats why the helmet is on. She removed it, fell, but this time it was fatal. Instead of getting help he finished her off.

One of the little tragedies of being on death row for four murders already is NOBODY BELIEVES you if you say you just sorta happened to be nearby when somebody else fell and landed just the wrong way.

I still think Helmet Girl looks as much like Backbend/Hang Girl as does anybody else in the locker pictures. But now I'm getting the hopeful idea her pictures may be a modeling session referred to in newspaper accounts as taking place shortly after Ellen Hover's disappearance and very near where her body was eventually found. That person lived to tell the tale. For all the news stories say, she may have been just fine for it all. Here's a typical one.

New York police detectives were intrigued when they located yet another young, attractive single woman who told them that Alcala had enticed her to pose for his camera in 1977.

She mentioned that Alcala took her to the Rockefeller Estate for the photo session.

And it turned out that Alcala and the model walked within 100 feet of where Hover's body was later found.

http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-07-15/crime/24640307_1_ellen-s-father-beaver-college-godfathers

In this particular instance, Alcala would be getting his perverted jollies from knowing Ellen Hover's decomposing remains were right nearby even as this other potential victim--a potential he decided not to realize--was innocently dancing and posing away right in front of him. (EEEeeew!)

Really creepy, yes. But my heart has gone out to dancer girl and I would probably wet a shirtsleeve or two with happiness if she's OK. (I'm a guy but, like the new House Speaker, I can mist up sometimes.)

 

[Redbird]

There is a little information in the article I haven't read before. There is one error I noticed. The reporter states he was living in New York when Ellen Hoover was killed but our timeline from a previous OCRegister article says he was vacationing and visiting relatives in New York during this time. I don't think he ever actually lived in New York after his release from parole in Monterey Park, CA in June 1977.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/alcala-243387-photos-detectives.html?graphics=1#graphics1

 

[plait]

But now I'm getting the hopeful idea her pictures may be a modeling session referred to in newspaper accounts as taking place shortly after Ellen Hover's disappearance and very near where her body was eventually found. That person lived to tell the tale. For all the news stories say, she may have been just fine for it all. Here's a typical one.
http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-07-15/crime/24640307_1_ellen-s-father-beaver-college-godfathers

In this particular instance, Alcala would be getting his perverted jollies from knowing Ellen Hover's decomposing remains were right nearby even as this other potential victim--a potential he decided not to realize--was innocently dancing and posing away right in front of him. (EEEeeew!)

Really creepy, yes. But my heart has gone out to dancer girl and I would probably wet a shirtsleeve or two with happiness if she's OK. (I'm a guy but, like the new House Speaker, I can mist up sometimes.)

I would be so happy to hear she's alive. I would love to hear her story. I hope she kept on with her dancing. Yap I could see RA getting excited about someone dancing over a decomposing body.

 

[Paschein]

The image posted earlier and said no way anyone can bend like that.. I was a dancer/ballerina most my life my step mother was a teacher that is an Arabesque, your gymnast is incorrect the knee should be turned to outward (not down as stated) just as your helmet girl has it as well as her point, this image looks perfectly normal to me.. other than maybe a little 'high'
Yes we did wear necklaces like that in the 70's and many time one end was a roach clip and that is how we fastened them behind.

here is a picture for reference of a Arabesque
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabesque_(ballet_position)

Believe me I could bend in postions you wouldn't think possible she looks to be what we called double jointed in the image with her arms over her head

I would agree the lay of the land looks a lot like "Rockefeller Preserve" Westchester lets hope she is one that got to walk out of there..

 

[WildHuncher]

...

I would agree the lay of the land looks a lot like "Rockefeller Preserve" Westchester lets hope she is one that got to walk out of there..

This girl is NOT one of several lately flagged as "identified," which should be true of the Alcala model who talked with police after Hover's body was found.

But maybe that's an oversight. Or maybe the police have lost contact with that witness and don't know now if these pictures are of her? It's hard to guess what's going on.

 

[WildHuncher]

I've been looking at something since late last year, trying to decide if it's anything. I had at first assumed the two pictures below were taken within seconds of each other. Toss the head right, toss the head left. The lighting seems the same, the background is only slightly shifted, and the poses are almost identical.

But the one on the left bothered me in a way the one on the right didn't. Blow it up, you get this.

Add some brightness and you get this.

No, I really don't know if it's anything. But it makes me think of the head hair on hanger-backbender that doesn't drape under gravity, that looks stuck to something.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Bumping up for possible new interest.

 

[GGE]

Add some brightness and you get this.

No, I really don't know if it's anything. But it makes me think of the head hair on hanger-backbender that doesn't drape under gravity, that looks stuck to something.

SBM-

Looks like she's bleeding out of her left eye socket quite badly and it's streaming down her face towards her nose. ETA, actually she has a massive head wound on her forehead under that hair. Holy cow. WTF.

How "funny" that he puts her in a helmet but then takes her to the woods and finishes her off with a head injury. By the look of it.

ETA: here I put a circle around the wound in the so helpfully lightened version quoted above:

 

[GGE]

So many dead picture links... so I'm going to try to post a bunch of this girl here in one spot for future reference -

(Cropped arabesque pic)

(where did the forward motion of the hair come from, I wonder?)
(there's no underarm hair so this can't be backbend person... but then again.. are her pits both red in spots like from razor burn?)

(Where'd her necklace go, and what's up with her forehead above her right (our left) eye?)
(looks like she's falling backwards and he caught that moment. And why is she suddenly like RIGHT in the trees? And is it me or is there DARK bruising around the neck where the necklace used to be?)

I think that's all of them. I'll try to find uncropped versions, too.

 

[WildHuncher]

(Where'd her necklace go, and what's up with her forehead above her right (our left) eye?)

I think that's all of them. I'll try to find uncropped versions, too.

ETA: she has no underarm hair - she's not backbend person.

The necklace and the underarm hair are there but motion-blurred to near-invisibility. I think a flyaway strand of hair has come down over her eye in the picture.

Discussion and some bigger blowups here:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Person doing a backbend or hanging upside down in dense foliage

 

[WildHuncher]

I realize this place could be almost anywhere in the East if not the world, but he's known to have taken two women to the Rockefeller Estate/Preserve/Park in NY State. One of them even came back.

An image Google:

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1020&bih=567

Just rechecked and the Google above now includes some pics from this guaranteed unrelated photo shoot on the Rockefeller preserve of a balerina. Many of the pictures present a similar look. Doesn't prove a thing ... but remember we KNOW he went there and took women there.

http://toddshapera.photoshelter.com...er-Preserve/G0000etnjeaT1rjg/C0000OHXe2IaV7Rc