Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #87

[ch_13]

Rather than make what you call inferences, I prefer to see what the evidence shows when the civil suit goes to court. For example, will the evidence show the P's phone numbers were ever blocked on the L's cell phone? We can't know one way or the other right now. I'm also not sure what the Laundries' daughter has to do with anything at this point. She has said her parents told her they were advised not to talk to anyone about the situation by their attorney. One can believe that was bad advice but most people would agree taking advice from an attorney is generally a very good idea. And not talking about the situation included not talking with Cassie. Why is that an issue?

Besides not really understanding why Cassie's interactions with her parents would be an issue, I don't really see why Cassie is at all a part of it now. At one point Joe P did tell Dr. Phil he tried to call Cassie in early Sept to see if she knew where GP was but apparently Cassie and her family were at DisneyWorld that day. She told reporters her phone log did not show any calls. Was she supposed to be blocking calls from any Petito phone too? That seems pretty unlikely. Gabby Petito Case: Brian Laundrie's Sister, Cassie, Claims She Didn't Get Phone Calls from Joseph Petito

We don't know why the L's waited 4 days to report BL missing except that he was an adult, not a child. But we do know they reported him missing days before a warrant was issued for his arrest. So to say he was "running from authorities" when he left their house isn't truly accurate. And despite all the published claims from various people saying BK was alive well into Oct, from the final FBI report and autopsy, that wasn't true either-- he didn't run anywhere but the swamp where he died in a day or two from suicide.

So lots of wrong info out there. We'll see what happens in court.
JMO

I must admit that this post has me scratching my head.

I mentioned the Laundrie's daughter because it is part of a fact pattern.
Fact - the Laundrie's wouldn't speak about the situation with Cassie.
Fact - the Laundrie's wouldn't speak about the situation with law enforcement.
Fact - the Laundrie's wouldn't speak about the situation with the media.
Fact - the Laundrie's lawyer said 'no comment' when asked about the letter that the Petito's released begging for help.

Based on the fact pattern, IMO the only sensible conclusion is that the Laundrie's wouldn't take the Petito's calls. But in reading the quoted post, the suggestion seems to be that the Petito's are lying about not being able to reach the Laundrie's and the families were in contact. Or maybe the Petito's never even bothered to try calling the Laundrie's despite their public statements. And then in another post, it was suggested that it was Brian who blocked the numbers and the Laundrie's never realized that Petito's wanted to speak with them.

None of that seems to be remotely plausible to me.

And the idea that Brian wasn't evading law enforcement because a warrant had yet to be issued has me quite flummoxed. He knew he had killed Gabby and that an arrest was forthcoming. I believe If he could have gotten away with it, he'd still be alive today. But instead he chose to take his own life rather than face up to the consequences of his actions.

I also don't understand the rebuke about making reasonable inferences. It's the only way to have a conversation in this forum since we can't know all the facts. Otherwise there's nothing to discuss. Even juries must do this. From the ABA website on How Courts Work: 'The jury listens to the evidence during a trial, decides what facts the evidence has established, and draws inferences from those facts to form the basis for their decision. The jury decides whether a defendant is "guilty" or "not guilty" in criminal cases, and "liable" or "not liable" in civil cases.'

Just saying "wait until the trial" doesn't lend itself to a particularly fruitful discussion, so I'm going to bow out of any further responses to this particular line of conversation.

 

[somequestions]

In my opinion, I do not think the letter alone proves that the Laundrie's knew that their son had committed a murder or told them about it. It does not mean that Brian Laundrie did not tell them, only that the letter does not prove it. That letter could have been written before the murder ever happened.

However, when you write that you will help your son bury a body and then quote Bible verse, you are going to have a tough time telling a jury you cared. I think most juries are going to wonder how the Laundrie's could not think about whether that body was someone else's child. Also, if Brian had told his parents about killing Gabby, Brian certainly would have been less apprehensive about telling them what he did if indeed the letter was written before Gabby Petito died.

Sometimes what we say can appear meaningful when it is just coincidence.

To give an example, at the August 12th, 2021, domestic abuse stop, the only debate that occurred among the officers was whether to arrest Gabby Petito. As the main officer who talked to Gabby Petito sat in his squad calling his supervisor, he did not know whether or not to arrest Gabby, as he described her as "105 pounds soaking wet". Then another officer came to the window of his squad and they debated the law and the meaning of bodily injury. Does a simple slap fight really qualify as arresting Gabby Petito for inflicting bodily injury? This is what they debated.

I cannot remember word for word so I will paraphrase what the officer said next: He said the reason the law (for domestic abuse) is in place is because eventually if you do not separate the two individuals, they continue to keep fighting until eventually one of them ends up dead. When I heard him say that, I thought how prophetic it ended up being.

I know a lot of people think the police were wrong in this case, but looking at it from the officer's perspective, I guarantee you if he had known Brian Laundrie was physically abusing Gabby Petito, he would have done things differently. I think all of the officers at that stop would have done things differently. Unfortunately, they did not see it(the signs) and maybe they should have? It is a debate.

It is easy to judge in hindsight.

 

[housewife]

In my opinion, I do not think the letter alone proves that the Laundrie's knew that their son had committed a murder or told them about it. It does not mean that Brian Laundrie did not tell them, only that the letter does not prove it. That letter could have been written before the murder ever happened.

However, when you write that you will help your son bury a body and then quote Bible verse, you are going to have a tough time telling a jury you cared. I think most juries are going to wonder how the Laundrie's could not think about whether that body was someone else's child. Also, if Brian had told his parents about killing Gabby, Brian certainly would have been less apprehensive about telling them what he did if indeed the letter was written before Gabby Petito died.

Sometimes what we say can appear meaningful when it is just coincidence.

To give an example, at the August 12th, 2021, domestic abuse stop, the only debate that occurred among the officers was whether to arrest Gabby Petito. As the main officer who talked to Gabby Petito sat in his squad calling his supervisor, he did not know whether or not to arrest Gabby, as he described her as "105 pounds soaking wet". Then another officer came to the window of his squad and they debated the law and the meaning of bodily injury. Does a simple slap fight really qualify as arresting Gabby Petito for inflicting bodily injury? This is what they debated.

I cannot remember word for word so I will paraphrase what the officer said next: He said the reason the law (for domestic abuse) is in place is because eventually if you do not separate the two individuals, they continue to keep fighting until eventually one of them ends up dead. When I heard him say that, I thought how prophetic it ended up being.

I know a lot of people think the police were wrong in this case, but looking at it from the officer's perspective, I guarantee you if he had known Brian Laundrie was physically abusing Gabby Petito, he would have done things differently. I think all of the officers at that stop would have done things differently. Unfortunately, they did not see it(the signs) and maybe they should have? It is a debate.

It is easy to judge in hindsight.

It's not really up for debate. We have had quite a few posts regarding the Moab stop.

Dr. Laura Richards and the July 2022 Domestic Violence Report have detailed information regarding how the Moab police did not assess the situation correctly, and both agree that the Moab police did not even properly apply Utah's Physical Aggressor law correctly. I am not a lawyer, but found the above links helpful in understanding the reason for the lawsuit.

The officer was told by Gabby that Brian was abusive. Yet she was still asked "You want me to let him know that you love him and that you’ll see him tomorrow and stuff like that?"

 

[Cedars]

In my opinion, I do not think the letter alone proves that the Laundrie's knew that their son had committed a murder or told them about it. It does not mean that Brian Laundrie did not tell them, only that the letter does not prove it. That letter could have been written before the murder ever happened.

However, when you write that you will help your son bury a body and then quote Bible verse, you are going to have a tough time telling a jury you cared. I think most juries are going to wonder how the Laundrie's could not think about whether that body was someone else's child. Also, if Brian had told his parents about killing Gabby, Brian certainly would have been less apprehensive about telling them what he did if indeed the letter was written before Gabby Petito died.

RSBM

I agree the letter does not prove knowledge and I think, in terms of the civil trial, that is all the Laundry lawyers will say. It's like any trial, it's up to the prosecuting side to prove their case, which I think in this instance is that BL had directly confessed to his parents exactly what had happened and where it had happened.

I don't think the Laundries will go down the road of trying to explain anything specific in reference to what BL said, or what they had intuitions about, since from the beginning their legal strategy has been to take the 5th Amendment and the right to remain silent. If they were to abandon that now, they would leave themselves open to "Well, why didn't you say anything before?"

Just my opinion, but to me the letter is a strong indication that, at the time it was written, there had not been a frank tell-all conversation between BL and his parents.

Why would she allude to jail and burying a body if BL had told her directly about it? I think anyone would be more cryptic, they might say something like 'the trouble you told me about', 'I will never tell anyone what you told me', etc.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

I guarantee you if he had known Brian Laundrie was physically abusing Gabby Petito, he would have done things differently. I think all of the officers at that stop would have done things differently. Unfortunately, they did not see it(the signs) and maybe they should have? It is a debate.

It is easy to judge in hindsight.

I also agree with this, and I think it's why the case is so heartbreaking.

Poor Gabbie was such an innocent person, who wouldn't harm a fly, yet no one was in her corner.

When she died, she was all alone in the wilderness with an abusive man she loved and trusted, far from her friends and family who didn't even know where she was, and weren't at all worried about her until she'd been missing for days.

If all that lies between a lovely, vital young woman and her death is a happen-chance police stop, then of course that generates outrage. And with outrage comes blame, blame, blame.

But I just feel sadness and compassion for all the people who now feel regret that they didn't intervene in time to save her, and that, for whatever reason, Gabbie didn't confide her troubles to them.

JMO

 

[Estelle]

Remember when BL flew back to his home, is that when she could have written the letter? Were things discussed then with his mother about how he was going to proceed with Gabby?

 

[Laura456]

Remember when BL flew back to his home, is that when she could have written the letter? Were things discussed then with his mother about how he was going to proceed with Gabby?

I mean if I knew my son might harm someone I'd do anything to stop him continuing this trip. Call Gabby, apologize, say he's going through something, buy her a ticket home and get her the van. Have a nice long cooling off period before they see each other again. But real life just doesn't work out that way.

 

[somequestions]

I could speculate all day about what the arguments between Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie were about. Only people close to them really know. I thought Brian Laundrie might be stressed due to financial problems, but he was willing to offer the couple that picked him up in Grand Teton National Park on August 29th, 2021, over 200 dollars for a ride. Where did he get the 200 dollars from?

Maybe Brian Laundrie did not know what he had? They were engaged. He did not realize he had a girlfriend who was his also his fiancée who wanted him to be a part of her passion for vlogging and the van life. Still he was filled with anxiety, jealousy, and control. Maybe he could not get over whatever problems he had, no matter how much yoga and meditation he tried?

This case is a good example of domestic abuse behind closed doors. But, in my opinion, it is also a tragedy because in the videos and pictures, they looked like a couple in love.

 

[Gemmie]

Remember when BL flew back to his home, is that when she could have written the letter? Were things discussed then with his mother about how he was going to proceed with Gabby?

I don't recall the timing of things but could it be possible that Brian is the one that blocked the S&P's on his mom's phone without her knowing, and it wasn't Roberta herself doing the blocking? Curious if that could have been done during his trip home.

 

[Estelle]

I don't recall the timing of things but could it be possible that Brian is the one that blocked the S&P's on his mom's phone without her knowing, and it wasn't Roberta herself doing the blocking? Curious if that could have been done during his trip home.

I don't think that likely.

 

[Warwick7]

I don't recall the timing of things but could it be possible that Brian is the one that blocked the S&P's on his mom's phone without her knowing, and it wasn't Roberta herself doing the blocking? Curious if that could have been done during his trip home.

MOO is that seems improbable.

 

[xyzlunar]

I thought it was probably Gabby Petito's debit/credit card. Why was Brian Laundrie using her debit/credit card? He could not get his own? I wonder if Brian Laundrie had financial problems and was maybe even controlling Gabby Petito's money?

She had about 20,000 in her bank account, however, the money issue was traveling with them all along: free of charge camp sites, using free wi-fi at restaurants/cafes, the somewhat strange shopping trip to Whole Foods (did the buy something and - if so - pass by the cashier...), him stating to the police they would have little money and he cannot pay for a hotel room, the issue with the payment of the restaurant bill on the day she probably died...

On the other hand a flight back home for him and a one week hotel stay for her. She even asked her father to order food - food delivery she could have easily paid for on her own. Was she trying to hide this?

I am wondering if the stay in the hotel may have a caused the final argument if that was something he had not been aware of and he somehow noted it on her last day?

He blew out 1,000 when driving back to Florida, so his concerns of money were no longer applicable at that time.

 

[NCWatcher]

I don't recall the timing of things but could it be possible that Brian is the one that blocked the S&P's on his mom's phone without her knowing, and it wasn't Roberta herself doing the blocking? Curious if that could have been done during his trip home.

It also could have been done when he got home the last time on Sept 1. Remember the S/P's said they tried to call both G&B soon after G stopped calling her mother daily as she had been doing. But they didn't try to reach RL until something like Sept 10. According to the FBI report, BL used GP's phone to make it look like she was using it. It's not that hard for me to imagine he might have blocked calls on his mother's phone too. Had plenty of time to do it.
JMO

 

[Gemmie]

It also could have been done when he got home the last time on Sept 1. Remember the S/P's said they tried to call both G&B soon after G stopped calling her mother daily as she had been doing. But they didn't try to reach RL until something like Sept 10. According to the FBI report, BL used GP's phone to make it look like she was using it. It's not that hard for me to imagine he might have blocked calls on his mother's phone too. Had plenty of time to do it.
JMO

Yep, that's what I was wondering. BL blocking Gabby's mom on his mom's phone, and not his mom, is still on the table for me. I can TOTALLY see him doing that. More so than his mom feeling the need to do that. He was a devious lil dickens that one.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Why would he block the phones if he already told his parents that something happened to Gabby?

 

[NCWatcher]

Why would he block the phones if he already told his parents that something happened to Gabby?

We don't know that he did tell them what happened. I can imagine him telling a breakup story.
JMO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

We don't know that he did tell them what happened. I can imagine him telling a breakup story.
JMO

Since it looks like they called an attorney right away, I doubt he said only that they broke up. I also doubt that he told them that he killed her though.

 

[NCWatcher]

Since it looks like they called an attorney right away, I doubt he said only that they broke up. I also doubt that he told them that he killed her though.

I doubt he told them he killed her too. But no telling what other "facts" could have gone along with the story he did tell. Plus, breakups can have legal aspects, real or made up, especially if there are $ issues. And those could have initially prompted calling the attorney. (I don't think we absolutely know when that call to SB was made. We know what the Complaint from the civil suit alleges.)

Right now nobody really knows what happened re: RL's phone. We don't even have proof any numbers were blocked. Under the circumstances though, I can easily imagine BL not wanting his mom talking to NS. And we know B was playing games with G's phone so I can imagine he'd do other things with phones. But that's JMO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I must admit that this post has me scratching my head.

I mentioned the Laundrie's daughter because it is part of a fact pattern.
Fact - the Laundrie's wouldn't speak about the situation with Cassie.
Fact - the Laundrie's wouldn't speak about the situation with law enforcement.
Fact - the Laundrie's wouldn't speak about the situation with the media.
Fact - the Laundrie's lawyer said 'no comment' when asked about the letter that the Petito's released begging for help.

Based on the fact pattern, IMO the only sensible conclusion is that the Laundrie's wouldn't take the Petito's calls. But in reading the quoted post, the suggestion seems to be that the Petito's are lying about not being able to reach the Laundrie's and the families were in contact. Or maybe the Petito's never even bothered to try calling the Laundrie's despite their public statements. And then in another post, it was suggested that it was Brian who blocked the numbers and the Laundrie's never realized that Petito's wanted to speak with them.

None of that seems to be remotely plausible to me.

And the idea that Brian wasn't evading law enforcement because a warrant had yet to be issued has me quite flummoxed. He knew he had killed Gabby and that an arrest was forthcoming. I believe If he could have gotten away with it, he'd still be alive today. But instead he chose to take his own life rather than face up to the consequences of his actions.

I also don't understand the rebuke about making reasonable inferences. It's the only way to have a conversation in this forum since we can't know all the facts. Otherwise there's nothing to discuss. Even juries must do this. From the ABA website on How Courts Work: 'The jury listens to the evidence during a trial, decides what facts the evidence has established, and draws inferences from those facts to form the basis for their decision. The jury decides whether a defendant is "guilty" or "not guilty" in criminal cases, and "liable" or "not liable" in civil cases.'

Just saying "wait until the trial" doesn't lend itself to a particularly fruitful discussion, so I'm going to bow out of any further responses to this particular line of conversation.

Excellent post. Please don’t bow out of all discussion.

 

[Laura456]

Since it looks like they called an attorney right away, I doubt he said only that they broke up. I also doubt that he told them that he killed her though.

1. "We had a physical fight (mutual) and I left in her van and stranded her in the park. I just needed to get away from the situation and panicked."

2. "She was accusing me falsely of assault so I left to be far away from her ASAP. Do NOT talk with her family."

If they knew he killed someone, they would've hired a better lawyer, old Bertie Leeno isn't it.