ARE ASKED TO DECIDE, BASED ON THE EVIDENCE AND THE CHALLENGES PRESENTED HERE ON THIS ONE THREAD ALONE, WHETHER OR NOT PATSY RAMSEY MURDERED HER DAUGHTER, JONBENET. NO OTHER EVIDENCE MAY BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS POLL.
BASED ONre goes:
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1) Fibers from the sweater Patsy Ramsey was known to have worn that night were found on the sticky side of the duct tape over JonBenet's mouth, inside the blanket that JonBenet was wrapped up in, and were found inside the little box that Patsy Ramsey kept her art supplies in. She cannot account for this in a coherent way.
How many other fibers match those fibers, besides those from her sweater?
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2) Patsy claimed that she saw the ransom letter on the spiral staircase and stepped over it before turning to see what it was. The police later conducted an experiment where they tried to recreate her story. None of the police officers could do it without falling. Again, her story makes no sense.
Not one police officer in Boulder could step over a note, turn around and get it? Did Pat fall over, too?
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3) The police went over Patsy Ramsey's credit card records. The records said that she had made some purchases from McGuckin's in the weeks leading up to the killing. The prices on the items matched the prices of the tape and the cord.
Matched which tape and cord? Pat signed the receipt? Who else charged items on her credit card?
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4) Burke Ramsey mentioned that whoever killed JonBenet took out a knife. At the time, that was not a publicly released fact.
We rely on his mentioning?
But a knife was involved. Burke Ramsey had a Swiss army knife, but he had a habit of whittling with it inside the house and leaving wood shavings all over, so Linda Hoffman-Pugh, the family housekeeper, took it away from him and put in a cabinet in the basement where he couldn't get to it. Only Burke, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, and Patsy knew where it was. The knife was not used as a weapon on JonBenet, but it was found near her body.
How do you know Patsy knew where it was?
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5) JonBenet's body was treated tenderly after death, wrapped in a blanket like a papoose with her favorite nightgown inside with her.
Evidence? Do you mean that this is evidence that the person who just smashed in her head, strangled her and threatened to decapitate her unless her parents forked over $118,000, was kind and nurturing?
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6) The garrote was used from behind so the killer could avoid eye contact, typical of someone who cares for the victim.
Evidence? You mean that the killer intentionally tied her, face down, specifically to avoid eye contact?
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7) The autopsy report noted that JonBenet's wrists were tied with the same kind of cord that the ligature was made out of. It lists the length of cord between each wrist as 15-1/2 inches long. That's over a foot of space. Her arms were not tied together. They weren't tied behind her. The extra length wasn't attached to anything. There was over a foot of space between her arms! You're telling me that would have restrained her? Not only that, the cuffs on her wrists were so loose that they left no marks. One of them slipped right off of her arm when John Ramsey carried her up the stairs.
Proof?
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8) JonBenet had tape on her mouth when she was found. I guess this was supposed to give the impression that she had been gagged, but again, whoever did it did a lousy job. For one thing, it was not tied around her head. It wasn't even a long strip. It was a small square of tape. Thomas, in his book, describes what the forensic technicians found on the tape. They discovered that it contained a perfect print of JonBenet's lips. She had not made any attempt to fight against it. It also had bloody mucous from JonBenet's nose under it. The logical conclusion is that it had been put on after JonBenet was dead.
Evidence?
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9) The ransom note contains motives that conflict with the crime and with each other. Pedophiles don't leave ransom notes.
ERGO, who did it?
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10) When Patsy Ramsey greeted police on the morning after Christmas, she had on the same red sweater and black pants that she had worn to the party the night before.
Guilty of wearing outfit twice in a row?
Quote:
Her explanation has always been that since she wore them for only a short time, they were perfectly good to wear again. This does not jibe with what others have claimed. The family housekeeper, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, has claimed that the idea of wearing the same clothes twice in a row was repellent to Patsy. She had a full closet full of clothes and was described by her stepson, John Andrew Ramsey, as "flashy." Apparently, word reached her ears that the police were looking askance at this little fact, because she showed up to an interview wearing the same outfit she'd worn at a television appearance the day before. I forget specifically when this was, but Det. Thomas describes it in his own book. Her wearing the same clothes suggests she never went to sleep that night. Denver Post columnist Chuck Green wrote in December of 2006 that the investigators, having inspected her bedroom, felt "that her side of the Ramsey bed hadn't been slept in."
What kind of evidence is "felt?"
You trust "evidence" that was reported 10 years after the fact?
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11) Of all the examiners who studied the ransom note, not one could eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the author. Several highly-respected examiners, OTOH, said flat-out that she is the writer. Her own mother and sisters said it looked like her writing, as well.
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12) The cord around JonBenet's neck had a fair amount of slack in it between where it was tied to the cord and where it met her neck. To use it effectively, the person would have to pull the cord up over their head almost; or wrap it around their arm. Not a very practical job, on the whole. The autopsy photos present a grim and grisly image of JonBenet's neck squeezed into an hourglass from the strangulation. To the eye, it looks horrific. But the autopsy reveals that there were no marks on JonBenet's tongue or on the inside of her mouth that would indicate her to have fought her killer. The report also reveals that the larynx, the strap muscles of the neck and the hyoid bone
Hyoid bone is not damaged, typically, with strangulation.
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were all undamaged. Also, the little girl's hair was tied into both the neck knot and the handle knot. This means that the garrote was made on her body, not prepared ahead of time.
Who said?
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13) The vast majority of pathologists claim that JB's head was smashed long before any strangulation occurred. It makes no sense for an intruder to hang around to stage sexual assault and strangulation after that.
"The vast majority of pathologists."
Try that again. Vast majority of all pathologists in the U.S.
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14) JonBenet was most likely assaulted vaginally with the paintbrush handle, but the damage to her vagina was minimal. A true sexual predator would have done FAR more damage.
ERGO, it was...? Therefore "all" sex predators must be eliminated as possible suspects? A sex pred did not do this period?
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15) The profilers claimed that the person who wrote the ransom note was either a female or a very genteel male, 35-45 years-old, who grew up and went to school in the American South in the 1960s and 1970s. The note contains several grammatical touches that are not common among younger writers, such as putting periods between the letters of acronyms, which Patsy was known to do. The note also contains phrases like "fat cat" and "use good Southern common sense," which were known to be spoken to John Ramsey by Nedra Paugh, Patsy's mother.
Which profilers? All profilers?
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16) In 1997, a picture of JonBenet in the now-legendary Showgirl outfit turned up and it showed JonBenet with a huge, angry-looking bruise on her arm. In June 1998, a photo of Patsy and JonBenet was shown where Patsy could be seen holding JonBenet's arm so hard that her fingernails were digging into the arm.
Which means, guilty of accidental murder and staged strangulation?
Quote:
17) No less than eight child abuse experts independently concluded that JonBenet had been abused sexually over a period of time. They pointed to specific issues like hymen damage, tissue erosion, and toughening, known as scarring. She also had severe bed-wetting and soiling problems, which are often a sign of an abused child.
Do they conclude it was the work of Pat? Any CAE say she wasn't abused this way or they weren't certain?
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18) Fibers from the Israeli-made black shirt John Ramsey was wearing at Fleet White's party were found in a rather compromising area: JonBenet's underwear.
Did Lee test other underwear for the presence of Israeli-made fibers like he tested samples of underwear for DNA from unknown males?
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19) JonBenet was redressed after she was killed. What intruder would CARE about that?
Well, who?
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19) Pineapple was found inside JonBenet's small intestine at the autopsy. The average rate of digestion for pineapple is two hours. Now, the Ramseys have always said that JonBenet fell asleep in the car on the way home and remained asleep until she was killed, but she would have had to have eaten it sometime after they got home.
They were wrong. ERGO, they did...?
Quote:
20) The Ramseys' stories are filled with inconsistencies. Most notably, about the heart drawn on JB's hand, Burke's voice on the 911 tape, and the ability to hear sounds within the house. The spiral iron staircase, for example, was horrendously noisy.
Their inconsistencies regarding the heart are lies, and not due to others' misunderstandings, period? Not feasible that Burke woke up, unbeknownst to mom and dad, went downstairs and asked a question before Pat realized he was there? If they were good at changing their versions, why not extend their prowess a little further?
BASED ONre goes:
Quote:
1) Fibers from the sweater Patsy Ramsey was known to have worn that night were found on the sticky side of the duct tape over JonBenet's mouth, inside the blanket that JonBenet was wrapped up in, and were found inside the little box that Patsy Ramsey kept her art supplies in. She cannot account for this in a coherent way.
How many other fibers match those fibers, besides those from her sweater?
Quote:
2) Patsy claimed that she saw the ransom letter on the spiral staircase and stepped over it before turning to see what it was. The police later conducted an experiment where they tried to recreate her story. None of the police officers could do it without falling. Again, her story makes no sense.
Not one police officer in Boulder could step over a note, turn around and get it? Did Pat fall over, too?
Quote:
3) The police went over Patsy Ramsey's credit card records. The records said that she had made some purchases from McGuckin's in the weeks leading up to the killing. The prices on the items matched the prices of the tape and the cord.
Matched which tape and cord? Pat signed the receipt? Who else charged items on her credit card?
Quote:
4) Burke Ramsey mentioned that whoever killed JonBenet took out a knife. At the time, that was not a publicly released fact.
We rely on his mentioning?
But a knife was involved. Burke Ramsey had a Swiss army knife, but he had a habit of whittling with it inside the house and leaving wood shavings all over, so Linda Hoffman-Pugh, the family housekeeper, took it away from him and put in a cabinet in the basement where he couldn't get to it. Only Burke, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, and Patsy knew where it was. The knife was not used as a weapon on JonBenet, but it was found near her body.
How do you know Patsy knew where it was?
Quote:
5) JonBenet's body was treated tenderly after death, wrapped in a blanket like a papoose with her favorite nightgown inside with her.
Evidence? Do you mean that this is evidence that the person who just smashed in her head, strangled her and threatened to decapitate her unless her parents forked over $118,000, was kind and nurturing?
Quote:
6) The garrote was used from behind so the killer could avoid eye contact, typical of someone who cares for the victim.
Evidence? You mean that the killer intentionally tied her, face down, specifically to avoid eye contact?
Quote:
Quote:
7) The autopsy report noted that JonBenet's wrists were tied with the same kind of cord that the ligature was made out of. It lists the length of cord between each wrist as 15-1/2 inches long. That's over a foot of space. Her arms were not tied together. They weren't tied behind her. The extra length wasn't attached to anything. There was over a foot of space between her arms! You're telling me that would have restrained her? Not only that, the cuffs on her wrists were so loose that they left no marks. One of them slipped right off of her arm when John Ramsey carried her up the stairs.
Proof?
Quote:
8) JonBenet had tape on her mouth when she was found. I guess this was supposed to give the impression that she had been gagged, but again, whoever did it did a lousy job. For one thing, it was not tied around her head. It wasn't even a long strip. It was a small square of tape. Thomas, in his book, describes what the forensic technicians found on the tape. They discovered that it contained a perfect print of JonBenet's lips. She had not made any attempt to fight against it. It also had bloody mucous from JonBenet's nose under it. The logical conclusion is that it had been put on after JonBenet was dead.
Evidence?
Quote:
9) The ransom note contains motives that conflict with the crime and with each other. Pedophiles don't leave ransom notes.
ERGO, who did it?
Quote:
10) When Patsy Ramsey greeted police on the morning after Christmas, she had on the same red sweater and black pants that she had worn to the party the night before.
Guilty of wearing outfit twice in a row?
Quote:
Her explanation has always been that since she wore them for only a short time, they were perfectly good to wear again. This does not jibe with what others have claimed. The family housekeeper, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, has claimed that the idea of wearing the same clothes twice in a row was repellent to Patsy. She had a full closet full of clothes and was described by her stepson, John Andrew Ramsey, as "flashy." Apparently, word reached her ears that the police were looking askance at this little fact, because she showed up to an interview wearing the same outfit she'd worn at a television appearance the day before. I forget specifically when this was, but Det. Thomas describes it in his own book. Her wearing the same clothes suggests she never went to sleep that night. Denver Post columnist Chuck Green wrote in December of 2006 that the investigators, having inspected her bedroom, felt "that her side of the Ramsey bed hadn't been slept in."
What kind of evidence is "felt?"
You trust "evidence" that was reported 10 years after the fact?
Quote:
11) Of all the examiners who studied the ransom note, not one could eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the author. Several highly-respected examiners, OTOH, said flat-out that she is the writer. Her own mother and sisters said it looked like her writing, as well.
Quote:
12) The cord around JonBenet's neck had a fair amount of slack in it between where it was tied to the cord and where it met her neck. To use it effectively, the person would have to pull the cord up over their head almost; or wrap it around their arm. Not a very practical job, on the whole. The autopsy photos present a grim and grisly image of JonBenet's neck squeezed into an hourglass from the strangulation. To the eye, it looks horrific. But the autopsy reveals that there were no marks on JonBenet's tongue or on the inside of her mouth that would indicate her to have fought her killer. The report also reveals that the larynx, the strap muscles of the neck and the hyoid bone
Hyoid bone is not damaged, typically, with strangulation.
Quote:
were all undamaged. Also, the little girl's hair was tied into both the neck knot and the handle knot. This means that the garrote was made on her body, not prepared ahead of time.
Who said?
Quote:
Quote:
13) The vast majority of pathologists claim that JB's head was smashed long before any strangulation occurred. It makes no sense for an intruder to hang around to stage sexual assault and strangulation after that.
"The vast majority of pathologists."
Try that again. Vast majority of all pathologists in the U.S.
Quote:
14) JonBenet was most likely assaulted vaginally with the paintbrush handle, but the damage to her vagina was minimal. A true sexual predator would have done FAR more damage.
ERGO, it was...? Therefore "all" sex predators must be eliminated as possible suspects? A sex pred did not do this period?
Quote:
15) The profilers claimed that the person who wrote the ransom note was either a female or a very genteel male, 35-45 years-old, who grew up and went to school in the American South in the 1960s and 1970s. The note contains several grammatical touches that are not common among younger writers, such as putting periods between the letters of acronyms, which Patsy was known to do. The note also contains phrases like "fat cat" and "use good Southern common sense," which were known to be spoken to John Ramsey by Nedra Paugh, Patsy's mother.
Which profilers? All profilers?
Quote:
16) In 1997, a picture of JonBenet in the now-legendary Showgirl outfit turned up and it showed JonBenet with a huge, angry-looking bruise on her arm. In June 1998, a photo of Patsy and JonBenet was shown where Patsy could be seen holding JonBenet's arm so hard that her fingernails were digging into the arm.
Which means, guilty of accidental murder and staged strangulation?
Quote:
17) No less than eight child abuse experts independently concluded that JonBenet had been abused sexually over a period of time. They pointed to specific issues like hymen damage, tissue erosion, and toughening, known as scarring. She also had severe bed-wetting and soiling problems, which are often a sign of an abused child.
Do they conclude it was the work of Pat? Any CAE say she wasn't abused this way or they weren't certain?
Quote:
18) Fibers from the Israeli-made black shirt John Ramsey was wearing at Fleet White's party were found in a rather compromising area: JonBenet's underwear.
Did Lee test other underwear for the presence of Israeli-made fibers like he tested samples of underwear for DNA from unknown males?
Quote:
19) JonBenet was redressed after she was killed. What intruder would CARE about that?
Well, who?
Quote:
19) Pineapple was found inside JonBenet's small intestine at the autopsy. The average rate of digestion for pineapple is two hours. Now, the Ramseys have always said that JonBenet fell asleep in the car on the way home and remained asleep until she was killed, but she would have had to have eaten it sometime after they got home.
They were wrong. ERGO, they did...?
Quote:
20) The Ramseys' stories are filled with inconsistencies. Most notably, about the heart drawn on JB's hand, Burke's voice on the 911 tape, and the ability to hear sounds within the house. The spiral iron staircase, for example, was horrendously noisy.
Their inconsistencies regarding the heart are lies, and not due to others' misunderstandings, period? Not feasible that Burke woke up, unbeknownst to mom and dad, went downstairs and asked a question before Pat realized he was there? If they were good at changing their versions, why not extend their prowess a little further?