MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011

  • #201
I believe Mark Furhman is mistaken about the 6:40/10:30 issue. It is my understanding that Deborah never said she put Lisa in her crib at 10:30. It was always 6:40. During her October 16th interview (aired Oct.17th) with Megan Kelly, she revealed publicly for the first time that she was unsure if she checked on her at 10:30. The time she put her in her crib is not in question IMO- it's whether or not she actually checked on her at 10:30 as was originally reported. It's obviously a confusing issue. I'll let the information below speak for itself.

Here are some of the initial reports. As you can see, they are conflicting. Some say she was put in her crib at 10:30, some say she was asleep/seen in her crib at 10:30.

http://www.kshb.com/news/crime/fami...-last-seen-fbi-searches-homes-in-neighborhood

Oct. 4th:

Lisa was put to bed at 10:30 Monday night in a purple outfit with white kittens on it.

http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...living-within-one-mile-of-missing-baby-s-home

Oct. 4th:

Ten-month-old Lisa Irwin was last seen in her crib at approximately 10:30 p.m. Monday night at a residence in the 3600 block of North Lister in the Northland.

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/local_...hting-of-lisa-irwin-in-saint-joseph--missouri

Oct. 6th:

Lisa went missing from her Kansas City home sometime between 10:30 p.m. Monday and 4 a.m. Tuesday. The 10-month-old girl was last seen when her mother checked on her while she slept.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15647944/police-again-questioning-missing-babys-parents

Oct. 8th:

Irwin called 911 about 4 a.m. Tuesday to report that his daughter had gone missing from her crib. Bradley said a kidnapper snatched her daughter sometime after she put her daughter down to sleep about 10:30 p.m. Monday.

Here are Deb and Jeremy's own words. These interviews can be found in the playlist linked below.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgUlLzcjJr8weZxlQmQzg7oGrPuL2CZxa

Early morning October 6th:

Reporter: “Do you remember your last moments with Lisa? I mean, what were you doing? What was it like?”

DB: “Just change her, you know, put fresh clothes on her, and get her ready for bed, and gave her her bottle, and made sure her binky was in her crib in case she needed it, and she sleeps with her Barney, and she sleeps with her GloWorm and her blanket and that was, that was it.”
October 6th:

Reporter: “So, so, so, Debbie, try and take us back to the last time you saw Lisa. You put her, you checked in on her around 10:30 Monday night?”

DB: “Um, Yeah. Between the time she went to bed and the time I went to bed, and uh, I gave her her bottle, I, I, I put her to sleep, and uh, that was the last time we seen her.”
October 6th:

Q: "That night, she put Lisa to bed, correct? And then what happened after that?"

JI: "Yeah, um, Deborah put Lisa to bed at 7 or so. Her normal bedtime, and, Deborah checked on her before she went to bed at 10:30. Everything was fine."

October 7th:

JP: “But that night, who went to bed first, Debbie?”
DB: “Um, Lisa.”
JP: “Lisa?”
DB: “Yeah. I put the boys to bed and then I a, I went to sleep.”
JP: “The neighbor was gone when you went to sleep?”
DB: “Yeah.”
JP: “Okay, and you think that was about 10:30?”
DB: “Yeah.”

October 17th:

Peter Alexander: “When’s the last time you saw your daughter?”
DB: “When I put her to bed that night.”
PA: “What time?”
DB: “6:40. I looked at the clock and she had been in bed.”


October 17th:

Megan Kelly: “When you went in at 10:30, after the neighbor left, what did you do?”
DB: “Probably went right to my room.”
MK: “Why do you say probably?”
BD: “Because, um, sometimes, I check on her. Well, most of the time, I check on her. And then the boys, their room is right next to each other. And I sneak in and make sure, you know. And the boys had been awake, and I had went, um, in there, and told them they could come sleep in my bed. And, um, so, I’m assuming that I went and checked on her too, but, I don’t really know.”
MK: “You don’t remember?”
DB: “No.”
MK: “So, it’s possible you did not check on her before you went to bed at 10:30?”
DB: “Yeah. Yeah. But there’s no way that anybody could have got in.”
MK: “So the last time that you saw your daughter alive, in your home, was when you put her down at 6:40?”
DB: “Right. When I put her down, yeah.”
 
  • #202
Okay, this is going to be long. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read it, and I would appreciate anyone's thoughts about the information below. First is a rough timeline of that night based on media reports, and below that is some of my thoughts on the timeline. This is sort of the "bottom line" to me. The meat and potatoes of the case, if you will. Assuming the timeline reported in the media is correct- if Deborah did it, how did she do it? I haven't been able to come up with an answer to that question.

Monday, October 3rd 2011

1:00pm-As she was leaving to run errands, MH., who lives around the corner from the Irwin home, saw John Tanko turning on sprinklers in the yard of her next door neighbor, who was out of town.

Unknown time- From some point early in the afternoon, the family cell phones were hot-lined due to nonpayment and could only receive incoming calls and incoming texts.

MH's neighbor saw John Tanko walk away with MH's dog that day. The dog turned up several miles away a few days later.

2:30pm- Jeremy arrived home from work as an electrician, but would have to return later to work overtime on an electrical job at a Starbucks.

4:30pm- Deborah and her brother went to a supermarket. They are seen on surveillance video purchasing baby food, baby wipes, and a box of wine. Jeremy stayed home with the children.

4:52pm-Deborah and her brother left the supermarket.

5:00pm-Deborah and her brother returned home from the supermarket.

5:15pm-Jeremy's boss called him to talk about a business question. While on the phone with him, she heard Lisa and the kids in the background.

5:30pm-Deborah's brother left the Irwin home. Deborah prepared dinner for herself, her children, SB and SB's daughter. Jeremy returned to work overtime as an electrician at a Starbucks. Jeremy said he told Deborah that he would be home around 10:00pm. According to Jeremy's boss, he and Jeremy were unaware of how long they would be working that night, but he expected to be finished around 11:00pm. The job ended up taking longer than they both expected. Jeremy was seen on surveillance footage working until 3:30am, when he left the Starbucks to return home.

Unknown time- Deborah took in a stray kitten.

6:40pm-Deborah got Lisa ready for bed and placed her in her crib. Deborah checked on Lisa again a few minutes later, finding her standing in her crib before tucking her back in. Deborah and SB started having drinks and talking on the front porch, while SB's daughter watched a movie and played inside with Lisa's brothers.

Approx.8:00pm-Shane B. was on his grandmother's front porch, two doors down from the Irwin home, smoking a cigarette. He had been staying with her for a short period of time. Deborah and SB called him over to chat. He had not met either woman before. He went over and talked with them for approx. an hour and a half. He said he didn't see them actually pouring alcohol into their cups, but he could tell they were drinking- they were having fun, being a little loud. He was not drinking. He did not see Lisa or any of the children during this time.

Approx.9:30pm- Shane B. returned to his grandmother's house. Mary H. noticed that the sprinklers were still turned on in her neighbors yard when she returned home from her errands.

10:30pm-SB and her daughter returned to their home and Deborah went inside the Irwin home. SB said she saw some of the lights go off in the Irwin home around this time.

Shane B. stepped outside again to smoke a cigarette. Deborah was no longer outside. SB was sitting in front of her own house at that time, also smoking a cigarette. The two chatted from across their yards. After one cigarette, Shane B. went back inside.

Deborah said she left the computer room window open that night. Due to the alcohol, she is unsure if she locked the door. She is unsure if she checked on Lisa. Deborah said she went to sleep with Lisa's brothers and the stray kitten in her bed. At some point during the night, one of the boys went to his own bedroom.

11:00pm- MH noticed that the sprinklers had been turned off at her neighbor's house. She assumed John Tanko turned them off because he was responsible for tending to the yard while the family was out of town.

11:30pm-SB went inside her home.

11:57pm- Someone attempted to make a phone call to Megan Wright's cell phone using one of the missing cell phones. Megan Wright has indicated that she does not know Deborah or Jeremy. The Irwin family's cell phone records for the year prior to Lisa going missing show that no incoming or outgoing calls were made to or from Megan Wright's cell phone before that night.

Tuesday, October 4th 2011

Approx.12:15am-Around the corner from the Irwin home, a man was leaving his house to go to work. As he was walking to his car, he noticed a man carrying a baby down the street. His wife watched the man through the front window of their home. The married couple saw the man walking toward the yard of the house Jersey was staying in. Police later interviewed the couple at least 4 times about the sighting. Due to the sprinklers being left on in the yard, the ground was muddy. Later in the morning, police took casts of footprints from the area leading into the backyard. MH told a reporter that John Tanko and his girlfriend at the time, Megan Wright, would often cut though that backyard as a shortcut to the N.Brighton Townhouses.

Unknown time-Someone activated the internet browser on Deborah's phone 5 times that night.

2:15am-Surveillance video from a gas station located at N.Brighton and Parvin Rd., not far from the Irwin home, shows a person walking along the road. The store manager said it is unusual to see someone walking in that area at that time of night.

2:27am-A dumpster fire is reported in the parking lot of the N.Brighton Townhouses near the Irwin home. On September 16th, 2011, Megan Wright's car was set on fire in a different area of the same parking lot.

3:17am-Someone attempted to check voice mail on the missing phone.

3:22am-Someone attempted to check voice mail on the missing phone.

Approx. 3:45am-Jeremy returned home from work, finding the front door unlocked and some lights on. As Jeremy walked through the house turning lights off, he noticed that a window was left open in the computer room and the screen had been pushed inwards. Walking through the house, he saw the older boy in his bed. Lisa's bedroom door was open, but he didn't look inside at that point. Upon entering the master bedroom, he found Deborah asleep in bed with one of Lisa's brothers and a stray kitten. Jeremy woke up Deborah, somewhat perturbed by the unusual circumstances and concerned about electricity bills. He asked her why some lights were on, and mentioned that the front door was unlocked, the computer room window was open and the screen had been pushed in. Jeremy then checked on Lisa. He told Deborah she was not in her crib.

Both parents began frantically looking around the house for Lisa. Deborah collapsed on the floor, sobbing. Jeremy ran next door, banged on SB's door and asked if Lisa was there.

The parents noticed that Jeremy's personal cell phone, Deborah's broken cell phone, and a temporary phone Deborah received from her grandfather were missing from where they were sitting on the kitchen counter.

Approx.4:00am-Jeremy called 911 from his mobile work phone. 911 dispatch tapes indicate that Jeremy reported his 10-month-old daughter was missing and a window screen had been busted. Deborah stood out front with her crying children and waited for police to arrive. Jeremy grabbed a flashlight from his work truck and searched around the yard.

Approx. 4:10am-A man riding a motorcycle said he saw a man walking with a baby in his arms at the intersection of NE 48th St. and N.Randolph.

4:10am-The first police car arrived at the Irwin home.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I strongly believe Jeremy was not involved in Lisa's disappearance. His whereabouts are accounted for from when he arrived at work that evening until 3:30am. There has been nothing to suggest Lisa went missing before that time frame. Lisa was reported missing within minutes of his arrival at the home.

The police were aware of the Deborah's drinking from day 1, however- she did not mention her drinking in the initial media interviews. I don't think she wanted to draw attention to it in the initial days because she feels guilty about it. That's totally understandable, IMO. In the days, weeks, and years after the fact she has publicly expressed regret for the drinking on several occasions. She believes if she hadn't been drinking, she might have heard something and been able to stop it. If she's innocent, I cannot imagine the guilt she must feel. I'm not a parent, so I don't really feel comfortable commenting on the fact that she possibly didn't check on Lisa between 6:40pm and nearly 4am. I will say that if Lisa woke up crying during the night and needed to be changed or fed, Deborah might have heard her cries over the baby monitor and went in and tended to her. If she was taken around midnight, Lisa would not have been there after that point to wake her mother with her cries.

Based on this timeline, in my opinion, it is likely that whatever happened to Lisa happened in the 87 minutes between 10:30pm when Deborah went inside, and 11:57pm when the phone call was attempted. When she went inside, Lisa would have been in her crib, possibly sleeping. Deborah would have then taken Lisa out of her crib for some reason and ???? ???? ???? happened, causing Lisa to be deceased. Deborah would have been in a panic, trying to figure out what she should do, under the influence of alcohol and expecting Jeremy home at any moment. Lisa's brothers were in the home. Instead of calling 911, she would have began to formulate a plan to dispose of Lisa's body. She knew the family cell phones could not make outgoing calls or send outgoing texts, but at 11:57pm, she would have for some reason attempted to call the phone number of MW, a woman whom she had never met (and a phone number that had not appeared on the family phone records before that night). Why did she attempt to make that call, especially with a phone she knew was broken and couldn't make outgoing calls? I have never read or thought of a plausible, believable theory on how Deborah could have done this taking into account the timeline. Most theories I have read are extremely outlandish or based on rumors and what I consider to be a faulty understanding of the information available. After all critical evidence in Lisa's case was processed, (that would include any evidence that might have come from the cadaver dog hit) KCPD indicated that there is no evidence that Lisa is deceased. Her case is being investigated by Crimes Against Children detectives, not homicide detectives.

If Deborah went to sleep after she went inside at 10:30pm, she would be sleeping soundly at the apparent time the intruder would have entered, between 11:30pm when SB went inside and 11:57pm when the phone call was attempted. She would have continued sleeping until Jeremy returned at about 3:45am. After watching media video tours of the Irwin home, looking at the lay out of the home- it is easy for me to imagine John Tanko or someone known to John Tanko quickly and quietly entering Lisa's home, taking Lisa and the phones while Deborah and the boys were asleep, perhaps leaving little to no evidence behind. Maybe this person tried to push the screen in and enter through the computer room window, but was possibly unable to do so. Maybe they were able to enter, and sleeping Deborah didn't hear. Maybe this person walked right in through an unlocked door. The intruder wouldn't have known the phones were not working properly. It seems more plausible to me that an intruder attempted to call MW, rather than Deborah attempting to call MW. All-around, I think an intruder theory sounds much more plausible than Deborah plotting some elaborate, risky cover-up of her baby's death, leaving so little evidence behind that she has yet to be arrested over 3 years later and Lisa is not believed to be deceased. I have a few ideas, but I'm kind of stuck on why an intruder would take a baby, but- as we've seen here on WS, stranger things have happened.

I find the sighting by the married couple to be extremely credible. Some suggest that this sighting was staged to make people think it was an intruder, or maybe it was an accomplice of Deborah's- perhaps a male friend or relative, or even Jeremy seen walking with Lisa. I do not think that is likely. Jeremy was at work, so he can be ruled out. Deborah would have had to cause Lisa's death, begin to formulate a plan to dispose of her body in those 87 minutes I mentioned before. She would have to somehow contact a male accomplice who would be willing and in close enough proximity to arrive at the home in time to help her. I say "somehow contact", because it would have been difficult for Deborah to contact an accomplice that night, due to the family cell phones being unable to make outgoing calls or send outgoing texts. She would also run the risk of this accomplice possibly calling 911. If she somehow did contact an accomplice through whatever means, and they were nutty enough to agree to a plan like that, this all would have occurred between 11:30pm when SB went inside, and shortly after midnight when the man was seen with the baby. Again, it is much more plausible to me that it was John Tanko or someone known to John Tanko seen walking that night, especially considering that the man was seen walking toward the yard of the house John Tanko was working at.

If Deborah is guilty, the voice mail check would mean she was awake and using the phone at 3:22am. Jeremy arrived home at roughly 3:45am. That would mean that Deborah hid the phones well enough that they couldn't be found after at least two weeks of extensive searching (it is still not known if they have been found), hopped into bed and pretended to be asleep in around 20 minutes, between 3:22am and approx. 3:45am when Jeremy returned home. Keep in mind, at that point, she thought he would have been home at 10:00pm and would have been expecting him home at any moment.

Perhaps it's possible that Jeremy could have helped dispose of the phones when he got home, but I don't think so. He would have arrived home, discovered his baby was dead, her body hidden, and her own mother was attempting to cover up the crime. Without taking much time to grieve or think through the situation, he would then have had to dispose of the phones so well that they possibly still have not been found, run over in a panic to his neighbors door pretending to look for Lisa, and call 911 all in a matter of 15-20 minutes. Later that day during the first police interrogation, after being up since the day before and in shock about what had occurred, he would have had to make up a believable story about what happened when he arrived home and how he discovered Lisa was missing. In the first couple of days, KCPD said there were no holes in the parent's stories. To me, the suggestion that Jeremy disposed of the phones or was involved at all in the supposed cover-up of Lisa's possible death that night is very unlikely, based on the timeline.
 
  • #203
AMAZING work, AskforNina. THANK YOU.

I will admit that in the very beginning, I was all onboard the Blame Deborah train. And it still bothers me that she had the little neighbor girl over to play and for dinner, and the poor baby was locked away in her room the entire afternoon. It is hard to imagine that Lisa wasn't whining and crying to come out and play with the kids at some point. The neighbor came over around 5-ish, and never saw Lisa. So essentially Lisa was put to bed before 5, and never ate supper with them? That still bothers me. And no one checked on her all that long night. That bugs the heck out of me. She was supposedly a sick baby. Who doesn't check on a sick infant?

But I do agree that Tanko is a very likely suspect.
 
  • #204
Did police recover footprints from the muddy yard with the sprinklers?
 
  • #205
Yes, they were seen collecting footprint casts the morning Lisa was reporting missing.
 
  • #206
AMAZING work, AskforNina. THANK YOU.

I will admit that in the very beginning, I was all onboard the Blame Deborah train. And it still bothers me that she had the little neighbor girl over to play and for dinner, and the poor baby was locked away in her room the entire afternoon. It is hard to imagine that Lisa wasn't whining and crying to come out and play with the kids at some point. The neighbor came over around 5-ish, and never saw Lisa. So essentially Lisa was put to bed before 5, and never ate supper with them? That still bothers me. And no one checked on her all that long night. That bugs the heck out of me. She was supposedly a sick baby. Who doesn't check on a sick infant?

But I do agree that Tanko is a very likely suspect.

According to a 'source', (allegedly Bill Stanton) SB saw Lisa at 4:30pm. SB seemed to be in and out of the Irwin home all afternoon/early evening. Apparently SB's daughter also saw Lisa at the time Deborah put her to sleep. It does seem like Lisa was in her room since the time Jeremy left for work. I agree, it is a bit bothersome. We don't know how many times Deb went in her room during that time, though. I wish we had heard from SB.
 
  • #207
Well done Nina. Your timeline is superb. I really hope that LE has reversed the "moved on" viewpoint and are looking at John Tanko. Too many "coincidences" point to him. JMO.
 
  • #208
WOW askfornina, excellent summation! I used to know the details of this case inside and out, but I forgot, what was ever said about LE trying to ping those phones? Does anyone remember?
 
  • #209
When Lisa first went missing I was certain that Deborah was the prime suspect. But after several years and reviewing Ninas timeline, I see now that I may have been biased. I think Tanko is the most likely suspect now. As RANCH said, there are too many coincidences.

The attempted phone call to MW, who Deb and Jeremy didn't even know. The fact that the phone call was attempted at all, likely by someone who didn't know the phones would not work, etc.

I do hope one day we get answers, and that Lisa is alive somewhere. I still can't wrap my head around why he would take her in the first place though, but sometimes there's no easy explanation.
 
  • #210
WOW askfornina, excellent summation! I used to know the details of this case inside and out, but I forgot, what was ever said about LE trying to ping those phones? Does anyone remember?

Not surprisingly, LE hasn't said anything about the pings, but according to lawyer John Picerno-

Megyn Kelly: "So, was the internet successfully accessed, do we know?"
John Picerno: "I believe so. I don't believe that there would be a record of it."
MK: "Okay, so are the feds telling you what, if anything was searched- if something was searched?"
JP: "No, that wasn't discussed when we were there. We actually saw the phone records, we saw the ping records as well, and that part was not discussed."
MK: "The ping records. Where do they show? How far away from the home did the cellphones get?"
JP: "Anywhere from 1/5th of a mile up to 1/3 of a mile, in a, sort of a, if you can visualize a baseball field from their house, and that is in the wooded area behind their house all the way down to the banks of the Missouri river."
MK: "So the cellphones never got more than 1/3rd of a mile away from the Irwin home?"
JP: "Not according to the powerpoint presentation that the FBI showed to both Mr.Tacopina and myself on Nov.1st when we met with them for 3 hours."

That's a transcript from one of the videos about that phones I linked upthread.
 
  • #211
I really hope that LE has reversed the "moved on" viewpoint and are looking at John Tanko. Too many "coincidences" point to him. JMO.

Of the 247 total cases studied (by NCMEC), 44 involved violence. In 22 cases, the baby’s mother was killed; in two cases both parents were murdered. In nine of the cases, the baby was cut from the mother’s body in a forced Cesarean section. Eight of those mothers and three babies died, the study showed. What didn’t change in the two studies was the profile of the typical abductor, Rabun said. It’s almost always a woman, and usually a woman who has lost a baby or cannot conceive and wants the child to cement a relationship with a man.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26532421/...htmare-babies-stolen-their-beds/#.VKnY33tQRDQ
 
  • #212
  • #213
There seems to be nothing currents in the local KC news, not even on the local Fox station. Everything I see reported is in the past 2011, and If I remember correctly Deb and Jeremy quit talking to KCPD (on Thursday October 6, 2011) but were talking with the FBI. I also still believe that is true today.

I don't believe Jersey is responsible for Lisa being missing any more than the next door neighbor, Samantha Brando and she had more reason and opportunity to take Lisa. IMO

All IMO JMO and my 2cents.
 
  • #214
There seems to be nothing currents in the local KC news, not even on the local Fox station. Everything I see reported is in the past 2011, and If I remember correctly Deb and Jeremy quit talking to KCPD (on Thursday October 6, 2011) but were talking with the FBI. I also still believe that is true today.

I don't believe Jersey is responsible for Lisa being missing any more than the next door neighbor, Samantha Brando and she had more reason and opportunity to take Lisa. IMO

All IMO JMO and my 2cents.

I guess the local news people don't care enough about keeping a missing local child in the public view. Sad.

John Tanko is a known crimminal. SB is not. I don't even want to hear what SB's "reason" would be because it would be complete rumor. JMO.

ETA. I guess you missed this local story from last October.

3 years later, search for 'Baby Lisa' continues


http://www.kmbc.com/news/3-years-later-search-for-baby-lisa-continues/28386906
 
  • #215
There seems to be nothing currents in the local KC news, not even on the local Fox station. Everything I see reported is in the past 2011, and If I remember correctly Deb and Jeremy quit talking to KCPD (on Thursday October 6, 2011) but were talking with the FBI. I also still believe that is true today.

I don't believe Jersey is responsible for Lisa being missing any more than the next door neighbor, Samantha Brando and she had more reason and opportunity to take Lisa. IMO

All IMO JMO and my 2cents.

Lisa's parents were interviewed extensively at the police station early on. More information about that can be found in this press release:

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kctv/Press Release.pdf

They were interviewed by police again in person around the time of the Dr.Phil show in February 2012. At one point Deborah gave investigators more than 100 pages of handwritten notes and other material that contained her recollections from the night Lisa vanished and other details. The parents say they have had ongoing telephonic communication with police and FBI since Lisa went missing. On the one year anniversary, police said communication with the parents has been ongoing but they would like to sit down for an interview with Deborah one-on-one. In the 2 year anniversary press release, KCPD did not request another sit down interview with Deborah. Shortly after the 2 year anniversary, Chief Forte indicated that there is no need to speak with Deborah one-on-one again. On the three year anniversary, police said the line of communication with Lisa's parents is open.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=770181149663979

November 2013:

Question:"Chief Forte, has Lisa Irwin's age progression image generated any promising leads? Does KCPD still want to question Lisa's mother one-on-one?"

Chief Forte: "Yes, we've gotten leads- we got quite a few leads when the photo came out, and no, we don't want to talk to the mother again. There is no need to talk to the mother again."

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article2486184.html#storylink=cpy

October 2014:

Although relations between the family and police were strained at the onset of the investigation because of disputes about how cooperative Lisa’s parents were being, those concerns have dissipated.

“The lines of communication are open,” said [KCPD Spokesperson] Grant.


There has definitely been coverage of the case after 2011. These two links contain *most* articles and videos about the case. I haven't yet updated them past 2013, besides the most recent Fox special.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfj0f6PGTrAF4NjTg0l7--A/videos
https://www.scribd.com/doc/140592934/Lisa-Irwin-News-Articles#fullscreen

Here are most (not all) TV interviews Lisa's parents have done. Again, some clips from 2013 and all clips from the 3rd anniversary are not included at this link.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgUlLzcjJr8weZxlQmQzg7oGrPuL2CZxa

I believe every local station had coverage of the third anniversary. Lisa's parents held a vigil at their home.
 
  • #216
I think that it's possible debs husb took the child on the way to his job and disposed of her then. Possibly at the Starbucks dumpster location. And I think this avenue needs to be explored. Iow I think she was dead before dinner. IMHO.
 
  • #217
I think that it's possible debs husb took the child on the way to his job and disposed of her then. Possibly at the Starbucks dumpster location. And I think this avenue needs to be explored. Iow I think she was dead before dinner. IMHO.

I believe that's not possible because I feel that Lisa was seen by the neighbors after Jeremy left for work. JMO.
 
  • #218
Just a few observations (and I haven't paid much attention to this case since it happened) 1). Lisa knew she was going to have some wine that evening as she bought a box. 2) Maybe not wanting to be disturbed from her.down time on the porch, baby Lisa was given a nice big dose of cold medicine. (Thos would explain why no one heard her crying after 7:00 or so.)
3). (This is all conjecture so please bear with me) Let's say Debra checked on Lisa only to find her daughter dead from an overdose. She put the boys to bed and had to figure out a plan.
4). The comment about the phone pings and possibly reaching to the banks of the MO River, gave me the shivers. What better way to dispose of a body and phones by placing them in the MO River.
5). I was disturbed that Mark Furhman reported that no fibers, hairs or dna was found in Lisa's room.
6. Not sure what to think about the attempted call to Megan W., Tanko's ex girlfriend on Debra's cell phone.
7). It also appears Mr. Tancko was in the neighborhood that night. But had he come into the house, surely he would have left fingerprints, etc behind?!
7. I feel like the "tampered window" in the computer room is a tad too convenient. And wasn't the window up high enough that a step ladder would be needed?
8). Boy, I don't know. Being on TV has its advantages. Not only does it give the case new life, but Debra's hair was lovely with new color, cut and blow dry.

(These are only observations of possibilities and not to be taken too seriously.)
 
  • #219
Just a few observations (and I haven't paid much attention to this case since it happened) 1). Lisa knew she was going to have some wine that evening as she bought a box. 2) Maybe not wanting to be disturbed from her.down time on the porch, baby Lisa was given a nice big dose of cold medicine. (Thos would explain why no one heard her crying after 7:00 or so.)
3). (This is all conjecture so please bear with me) Let's say Debra checked on Lisa only to find her daughter dead from an overdose. She put the boys to bed and had to figure out a plan.
4). The comment about the phone pings and possibly reaching to the banks of the MO River, gave me the shivers. What better way to dispose of a body and phones by placing them in the MO River.
5). I was disturbed that Mark Furhman reported that no fibers, hairs or dna was found in Lisa's room.
6. Not sure what to think about the attempted call to Megan W., Tanko's ex girlfriend on Debra's cell phone.
7). It also appears Mr. Tancko was in the neighborhood that night. But had he come into the house, surely he would have left fingerprints, etc behind?!
7. I feel like the "tampered window" in the computer room is a tad too convenient. And wasn't the window up high enough that a step ladder would be needed?
8). Boy, I don't know. Being on TV has its advantages. Not only does it give the case new life, but Debra's hair was lovely with new color, cut and blow dry.

(These are only observations of possibilities and not to be taken too seriously.)

I'm only going to comment on a couple of your points right now.

#5 How would Mark Furhman know what kind of fibers, hair or DNA was found in Lisa's room? I don't even recall him saying anything like that during the show. There had to be some hair, fibers and DNA collected anyway. At least I hope so.

#7-1 Why would Tanko have to leave fingerprints behind? Gloves or smudged prints perhaps.

#7-2 I think that Jeremy saw the window open/screen ajar and assumed it was an entry point initially. The unlocked front door would be an easy point of entry IMO.

#8 What does Deborah's hair have to do with anything?
 
  • #220
askfornina, this is an awesome timeline and supposition of what may have happened to poor lisa. thank you so much.

i guess my only sticking point is that lisa was quiet and not seen for so long. i mean assuming she was there and not dead. i am also not a parent. but surely... surely she would have been upset if sick, even if dosed with extra medicine. and surely a mom, even a drunk selfish mom would check on her?

but... i agree that i do not think that mom could have masterminded this. i just hope we have some answers and find poor lisa and make sure that whomever did this cannot do it again.
 

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