UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #23

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue

We're now moving to the nightshift of August 3/4 2015. Ms Letby was the designated nurse for Child E and F (who were twins) in nursery one

Mr Johnson is focusing in on evidence from Child E's mother. She previously told the court she went down to the neonatal unit to give her son a feed at around 2100 on August 3

Child E's mother said she found her son acutely distressed and bleeding from his mouth. She said: "I could hear my son crying. I walked over to the incubator to see he had blood coming out of his mouth. "I was panicking, I felt like there was something wrong."

Ms Letby has disputed this, saying Child E's mother came down later - Mr Johnson has put it to her that Child E was due a feed at 2100 and that the mum called her husband after she had witnessed him in distress at 2100

Ms Letby says she doesn't recall timings

Mr Johnson asks her if she had seen blood around the lips and mouth what she would have done. She says if she had 'seen blood at any point I would have escalated that to somebody'. But she says 'there wasn't blood prior to 22:00'

 

[Tortoise]

She keeps saying this stuff not understanding that if Myers didn’t put this to the staff who had previously testified, it cannot be part of her defence without opening a strong chance that KC NJ can reopen the prosecution and call the staff as rebuttal witnesses. The judge and jury just doesn’t have to take her word for it. Unless of course my memory is incorrect and Myers asked any of the doctors and nurses about the plumbing previously?

Found this one tweet from November, which didn't go into details

Andy Gill

@MerseyHack
·
Nov 16, 2022

Nurse agrees with Mr Myers that at the time some aspects of the neonatal unit at Chester were “quite old”. “Plumbing and drainage would not function as you would have expected.” The nurse says “correct”. Also agrees “at times” it was difficult to get hold of doctors when needed.

 

[Tortoise]

Andy Gill
@MerseyHack
·
39m

Lucy Letby says staffing levels did not contribute to to the death of an alleged victim Baby E. But she says medical incompetence by the team on that night was a factor. “Collectively the drs cd have acted sooner to react to his bleeding issue.”

Andy Gill
@MerseyHack
·
35m

The prosecution say, based on Baby E’s mother’s evidence, that Miss Letby failed to report that he was bleeding from the mouth as early as she could have done. Miss Letby says “No I don’t agree with that.”

Andy Gill
@MerseyHack
·
33m

Miss Letby says one of the issues the neonatal unit had to deal with was raw sewage flowing back from the operating theatres. But she agrees she didn’t fill in a form to report this issue.

Andy Gill
@MerseyHack
·
15m

Lucy Letby agrees that on the evening before she came on a night shift - the night that Baby E died- there was no suggestion he had any gastro intestinal problems. It’s alleged that Miss Letby murdered E by injecting him with air.


https://twitter.com/MerseyHack
@MerseyHack
·
13m

Mr Johnson suggests that the evidence of E’s mum concerning the timing of when she, the mum, went to the unit to take expressed breast milk, shows that she saw E with blood on his mouth before Lucy Lebty says that (the bleeding) happened.
https://twitter.com/MerseyHack
@MerseyHack
·
1m

Mr Johnson says “when [E’s mum] came down [to unit] at 9pm you had inflicted an injury on [him]”. Miss Letby says “No I do not accept that. That did not happen.” Mr Johnson adds “and that’s why he was screaming.” Miss Letby says “No.”

 

[Becky53]

@JudithMoritz
·
1m

Nick Johnson KC: "I’m going to suggest that when baby E's mother came down at 2100 hours you had inflicted an injury on him" Lucy Letby: "No I do not accept that, it did not happen" NJKC: "And that’s why he was screaming" LL: "No"

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Still, either way.. not sure how raw sewage would impact baby bleeding.
JMO

Surely this is her setting up Myers bringing in an expert who is going to argue that some or all of the deaths were down to infection ? Or he’s going to have someone come in and speak to the official reports on the hospital about poor care and standards ? But then why didn’t Myers get this out of her when he was asking her questions if it would become important later?

Otherwise, it makes no sense why she would apparently mention this for the first time (assuming she didn’t say anything in her police interviews).

 

[Tortoise]

11:15am

Mr Johnson asks about the significance of 9pm that night. Letby says: "I don't know what you mean."
Mr Johnson says it's the mother's evidence that she knew Child E was due a feed at 9pm, so came down to the unit for that feed.
Mr Johnson says Letby's recollection that Child E's mother brought milk with her fixes the time as being 9pm.
Letby: "I don't agree."
Mr Johnson asks about the 16ml 'mucky aspirate', which Letby agrees was taken before 9pm.
Mr Johnson asks where the milk for the 9pm feed was coming from.
Letby says the milk would come from the milk fridge in nursery room 1. She says she does "not remember" where the milk would come from for this feed specifically.
No feed was recorded for 9pm.
Mr Johnson says the SHO did not record no feed for 9pm, having said in evidence that would be the sort of thing he would record for a baby.
Letby says sometimes doctors don't record such notes.

11:25am

Letby is asked why the 'large vomit of fresh blood' is not recorded on the observation chart for 10pm. Letby says she recorded it in her nursing notes, and Dr David Harkness was present when it happened.
Letby is asked why she waited over an hour for the observation of the aspirate to be raised with the doctor.
LL: "I don't recall speaking to a doctor", but Letby recalls speaking to an SHO on the phone about it.
Letby says there was no observation of blood prior to 10pm.
NJ: "Was [Child E's mother] telling the truth about you?"
LL: "In what sense?"
NJ: "In the sense of what you said to her - when she says she came down to see her boys, she saw [Child E] with blood around his lips."
Child E's mother's illustration of what she says was present on Child E's lips is shown to the court.
NJ: "Did you ever see anything like that?"
LL: "[Child E] did have blood like that - after 2200."
Letby adds "there was no blood prior to that."
Letby accepts she was alone in room 1 when the mother came down. She says that would have been around the handover time at 8pm.
NJ: "You are not telling the truth about that, are you?"
LL: "Yes I am."
Letby says she does not accept causing an injury to harm Child E. She denies at any stage 'having a fall out' with Child E's mother.
Letby says she has never seen a baby with blood like that around her mouth in her career. She agrees it was "wholly exceptional".
She denies telling Child E's mother the cause of the bleed was via insertion of the naso-gastrinal tube. She says the insertion could cause "a small amount of blood" from the tube.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue

Mr Johnson asks Ms Letby if she believes Child E's mother is 'telling the truth' in her testimony - the court is reshown a diagram of a baby, that Child E's mother annotated, showing where the blood was around his mouth

Ms Letby says that Child E 'did have blood around his mouth after 22:00...he did have blood on his face yes'

Mr Johnson accuses Ms Letby of 'not telling the truth'. She says she is. He puts it to her that Child E was bleeding as a result of her inflicting an injury on him, she said: 'I don't accept that, that did not happen'

 

[Tortoise]

11:29am

Letby is asked if she recalls telling police in the case of Child N that NG Tubes can cause bleeding. Letby says it does cause blood, but not in the mouth.
Mr Johnson says Letby has said that previously it can cause oral bleeding. Letby: "Ok."
She denies saying that happened in this case.
She says "medically speaking", "any baby" could have a bleed like the sort seen by Child E.
A text message from Letby to Jennifer Jones-Key is shown: "...He had massive haemhorrhage could have happened to any baby x"
Letby says "at the time" it was thought Child E could have NEC, and "any baby could have had the condition [Child E] had."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

13m ago11:21

Child E was 'making very good progress' before he died​

On 3 August 2016, Child E was recorded as making very good progress. He would be dead less than 24 hours later.
"I wouldn't say he was very well, but yes he [was] making progress with his feeds," Letby tells the court.
The twins were the only occupants of nursery one - and Letby was the only nurse in this specific room. All other babies were elsewhere being looked after by other staff.
"You had the nursery to yourself?" Nick Johnson, prosecuting, asks.
"I was the only nurse allocated babies, yes," Letby replies.
Child E's mother brought expressed breast milk to the unit to feed her children - Letby is now asked about what happened when she appeared.
She says she does not remember. Nick Johnson then reads a transcript from her questioning by her defence lawyer, Ben Myers, from last week.
Myers: Do you recall why she had come down?
Letby: I don't recall specifically no.
Myers: Did she have anything with her?
Letby: I think she brought breast milk down.
He asks why Letby was unable to answer the question a few minutes ago.
The insinuation is the mother brought the milk at 9pm - at the time it was believed Child E was already bleeding, and when he was due a feed.
Letby says she believes Child E's mother came down later.
Letby says she spoke to an on-call doctor about omitting his 9pm feed. But the prosecution is suggesting this "conversation never happened".

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Becky53]

@JudithMoritz
·
2m

It's the prosecution case that Lucy Letby falsified records in the case of baby E. The nurse denies this.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder why Johnson isn't mentioning the phone call from baby E's mum to her husband, @ 9:11, telling him about the bloody face and the screaming. He testified about that call at trial earlier----I think it was vitally important to corroborate the timing and basics up her story.[nevermind----he did mention it---- ]

 

[esther43]

11:29am

Letby is asked if she recalls telling police in the case of Child N that NG Tubes can cause bleeding. Letby says it does cause blood, but not in the mouth.
Mr Johnson says Letby has said that previously it can cause oral bleeding. Letby: "Ok."
She denies saying that happened in this case.
She says "medically speaking", "any baby" could have a bleed like the sort seen by Child E.
A text message from Letby to Jennifer Jones-Key is shown: "...He had massive haemhorrhage could have happened to any baby x"
Letby says "at the time" it was thought Child E could have NEC, and "any baby could have had the condition [Child E] had."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

'It could happen to any baby' - yes so much so there are only 6 neonatal GI bleeds recorded globally in all time.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

11:29am

Letby is asked if she recalls telling police in the case of Child N that NG Tubes can cause bleeding. Letby says it does cause blood, but not in the mouth.
Mr Johnson says Letby has said that previously it can cause oral bleeding. Letby: "Ok."
She denies saying that happened in this case.
She says "medically speaking", "any baby" could have a bleed like the sort seen by Child E.
A text message from Letby to Jennifer Jones-Key is shown: "...He had massive haemhorrhage could have happened to any baby x"
Letby says "at the time" it was thought Child E could have NEC, and "any baby could have had the condition [Child E] had."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

BBM- caught in a lie!

She told police that an NG tube could cause blood in the mouth, when she’s just said that it wouldn’t cause blood in the mouth. Then when confronted with the fact that she said the opposite to police she just says ‘ok’. She’s had to admit it because it’s there in black and white what she told the police IMO.

After all of this contradiction I really hope the prosecution reopen their case and call rebuttal witnesses to set the record straight on some of this absolute nonsense.

It’s maddening and insulting IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder why Johnson isn't mentioning the phone call from baby E's mum to her husband, @ 9:11, telling him about the bloody face and the screaming. He testified about that call at trial earlier----I think it was vitally important to corroborate the timing and basics up her story.

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
24m

Ms Letby has disputed this, saying Child E's mother came down later - Mr Johnson has put it to her that Child E was due a feed at 2100 and that the mum called her husband after she had witnessed him in distress at 2100

 

[Sundial]

11:15am

Mr Johnson asks about the significance of 9pm that night. Letby says: "I don't know what you mean."
Mr Johnson says it's the mother's evidence that she knew Child E was due a feed at 9pm, so came down to the unit for that feed.
Mr Johnson says Letby's recollection that Child E's mother brought milk with her fixes the time as being 9pm.
Letby: "I don't agree."
Mr Johnson asks about the 16ml 'mucky aspirate', which Letby agrees was taken before 9pm.
Mr Johnson asks where the milk for the 9pm feed was coming from.
Letby says the milk would come from the milk fridge in nursery room 1. She says she does "not remember" where the milk would come from for this feed specifically.
No feed was recorded for 9pm.
Mr Johnson says the SHO did not record no feed for 9pm, having said in evidence that would be the sort of thing he would record for a baby.
Letby says sometimes doctors don't record such notes.

11:25am

Letby is asked why the 'large vomit of fresh blood' is not recorded on the observation chart for 10pm. Letby says she recorded it in her nursing notes, and Dr David Harkness was present when it happened.
Letby is asked why she waited over an hour for the observation of the aspirate to be raised with the doctor.
LL: "I don't recall speaking to a doctor", but Letby recalls speaking to an SHO on the phone about it.
Letby says there was no observation of blood prior to 10pm.
NJ: "Was [Child E's mother] telling the truth about you?"
LL: "In what sense?"
NJ: "In the sense of what you said to her - when she says she came down to see her boys, she saw [Child E] with blood around his lips."
Child E's mother's illustration of what she says was present on Child E's lips is shown to the court.
NJ: "Did you ever see anything like that?"
LL: "[Child E] did have blood like that - after 2200."
Letby adds "there was no blood prior to that."
Letby accepts she was alone in room 1 when the mother came down. She says that would have been around the handover time at 8pm.
NJ: "You are not telling the truth about that, are you?"
LL: "Yes I am."
Letby says she does not accept causing an injury to harm Child E. She denies at any stage 'having a fall out' with Child E's mother.
Letby says she has never seen a baby with blood like that around her mouth in her career. She agrees it was "wholly exceptional".
She denies telling Child E's mother the cause of the bleed was via insertion of the naso-gastrinal tube. She says the insertion could cause "a small amount of blood" from the tube.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Just to say; how difficult this must be for all the parents reliving this, but baby Es mother (and father), I can’t imagine what they must be feeling.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

11:37am

Letby is asked to look at her defence statement.
She says Child E's mother had come down with some expressed milk. The statement is dated February 2021.
Letby, in her statement, said "This may have been later than 2100".
Mr Johnson says Letby is now ruling out a time before 2200.
Letby says she cannot say it definitively, but there was no blood prior to 2200.
Letby is asked why she did not mention the vomit when blood went down the NG Tube in her defence statement.
Mr Johnson says Letby is lying by adding additional detail afterwards. Letby denies this.
Mr Johnson asks about the 'mucky aspirate' for Child E, asking if that is 16ml of 'bile', as per Letby's defence statement. Letby says there was bile in the mucky aspirate.
Mr Johnson says there is a difference between 'bile-stained' and 'bile'. Letby accepts 'there was 16ml of bile' in her defence statement is "an error".
She is asked why she put that in, in those terms.
LL: "I don't know."
Letby says this is a clarification of her earlier statement.
NJ: "You are lying, aren't you?"
LL: "No."

11:40am

The defence statement also refers to 'blood in the nappy' for Child E after he died. Mr Johnson says if that has been heard in her evidence. Letby says she cannot recall.
Letby says it is written in her nursing notes, and nothing was done about it as Child E was deceased by that time.
Letby is asked to look at her nursing notes.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Now11:43

Child E had 'blood around his mouth' an hour before Letby called a senior doctor​

The prosecution claims Letby didn't escalate the bleeding suffered by Child E until an hour after it had started.
"If I had seen blood at any point I would have escalated that to someone," Letby says.
"Do you agree that blood was never escalated to anyone until 10pm?" Nick Johnson, prosecuting, asks.
"Yes because there wasn't blood prior to 10pm," Letby says.
But Child E's mother, when she came down to see her boys at 9pm, claimed she saw Child E with blood around his lip.
The court is shown an artist's impression of what she remembered, with blood indicated around the mouth and chin of Child E.
Child E's mother claims Letby was the only person present when she went down at 9pm.
"When Child E's mother came down at 9pm I suggest you had inflicted an injury to cause bleeding," Nick Johnson says.
"I do not accept that, no," Letby replies.
"At any stage, did you fall out with Child E's mother?"
"No," says Letby.
Letby says she has never seen blood like that seen on Child E before. She agrees it is "wholly exceptional".

https://news.sky.com/story/lucy-let...ws-blog-12868375?postid=5956393#liveblog-body

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Cluedoneit]

Found this one tweet from November, which didn't go into details

Andy Gill
@MerseyHack
·
Nov 16, 2022

Nurse agrees with Mr Myers that at the time some aspects of the neonatal unit at Chester were “quite old”. “Plumbing and drainage would not function as you would have expected.” The nurse says “correct”. Also agrees “at times” it was difficult to get hold of doctors when needed.

Thanks Tortoise, so it may have been something Myers asked in detail, just not reported well.

 

[Tortoise]

Now11:47

'You are lying, aren't you, Lucy Letby?'​

Letby is asked as to why her case "has changed" since she gave a full statement to the police. A number of details, the prosecution claims, now contradict what she is saying in court.
"You are lying, aren't you Lucy Letby," Nick Johnson asks, not for the first time referring to her by her full name.
"No," Letby replies.
She is then asked about a statement she made claiming there was blood in Child E's nappy after his death.
She says she wrote something about this in her nursing notes.
The prosecution then hands her a copy of her nursing notes - a short break is called so Letby can reread her notes.
Court is adjourned for 15 minutes.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Tortoise]

Andy Gill

@MerseyHack
·
2m

Mr Johnson alleges that Lucy Letby falsified records about what happened to Baby E and that there are inconsistencies in what she told police about what happened and what she says now, “You are lying Miss Letby.” She replies “No.”. More in
@BBCNWT at 1.30 and 6.30