Do you see the square footage of MK's room on that page? Seems like it should be there, but darn if I can find it!
WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8
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Do you see the square footage of MK's room on that page? Seems like it should be there, but darn if I can find it!
Huh? :waitasec:
That is roughly the size of the smaller of my two bathrooms. There's no way three assailants were in the room without leaving numerous footprints while MK bled out.
They didn't stay in the room till Meredith bled out. It is not like the floor is instantly covered in blood. One sat on the bed, and the other one ran off to the bathroom. She probably didn't feel so well. The blood trail goes to the toilet. The sink/bidet (washing) comes after that. IMO.
I wasn't able to find the dimensions either, thanks Nova.. wow, very small room .. plus, add the bed (at least 3' x 6'), a night stand, wardrobe, desk and four people.. like sardines! For A & R to have participated is even harder to imagine - for them to have been guilty of theft, too? It's insane -
looking at the photo... Rudy said she wasn't covered when he left... well, the towel w/ blood Rudy used was left on the bed and M's purse (with Rudy's dna & M's blood) was left on the bed as well... he obviously threw the duvet on top of her first.
PHOTO:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dE9ZVVetI...dwaFNsLMo/s1600-h/MeredithBAR1601_468x704.jpg
Did you read the Hendry reconstruction? There is blood all over that room (including aspirated droplets), but only RG's footprints.
The other two assailants must have levitated all though the "sex game gone wrong." And levitated really high, since they failed to block the aspirated blood.
GREAT POINT!
And didn't someone try to access MK's bank records by 10 pm?
RS was on the computer until at least 9:15 (other timelines put him there later). So that gives RS and AK less than 45 minutes to go out, meet RG, go to the cottage, engage in a "sex game" with MK, have it go wrong, steal her credit and bank cards and then try to call her bank (without entering the country code). Apparently, they washed up in there, too, since I've heard no reports of bloody fingerprints on the cell phones.
ETA: Here's the best timeline I can find for that day of the murder:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2008/10/27/meredith-kercher-timeline-her-last-12-hours/
Per that timeline, RS accessed his computer at 9:46. The abortive call from MK's cell phone intended to access her bank records in England occurs 14 minutes later at 10. What do posters think of this? Do they believe Ms. Kercher tried to access her own bank records but didn't know to enter the country code for England? Because if not and the call was attempted by MK's assailant(s), AK and RS didn't really have time to get to the cottage, kill MK, steal her bank card and make the call.
RG, on the other hand, claims he arrived at the cottage at 8:30 pm and had to wait for MK to arrive. He says he left at 10:25 pm and, in fact, "a black man" was seen running up the street near the cottage at 10:30.
Ron Hendry was recruited by the Knox propaganda team to write these very one-sided articles. I rather read something a bit more objective. He doesn't make much sense to me. He speaks of police leaving blood stains by moving shoes or a jacket. The next day? Makes no sense. He does acknowledge that certain areas were wiped though. I guess there was a cleanup attempt after all. Maybe RG cleaned his bloody shoe prints that show him spreading out the duvet over Meredith's body, or where he closes the door behind him? Seriously, these people that write on the internet all have their opinions and that is fine but the real case is in Perugia where the real experts handle the case with first-hand knowledge. I much rather read their reports.
I agree the real case is in Perugia. But whether the scene was processed by "experts" is open to debate. Even I know better than to pass around an item of evidence before placing the item back on the floor to be photographed.
Hendry is willing to stake his considerable reputation on his reconstruction of the crime. That doesn't make him infallible, but I don't see him as a paid shill for the Knox family.
But whatever we think of Hendry, insisting that four people struggled in that room stretches the imagination, especially since only two of them (MK and RG) ended up with significant injuries.
-Are you attempting humor or just some levity to the thread? :innocent:
-Were they standing there for 10 minutes while blood was getting all over them?
-Where was the blood spraying, and at what point of the murder?
-Could a majority of it have flowed/sprayed onto the victim and not onto them?
-If someone was to the side of the victim and the blood went forward or down would it be 'all over' them anyway?
-Is it possible that they did have some blood on them? Could they have thrown their clothes away? They did have like 4 days not under tooooo much suspicion.
-Could the two even remember what they were wearing that night due to the joint??? If so, were these items presented to LE?
-Since their BARE footprints are in the hall and one of RS is in the bathroom, wouldn't it be logical that some were cleaned up around Meredith too? The towels were already there handy, according to RG.
*A question or two regarding your latest blasting of the several forensic expert's verifications of the evidence gathering and testing:
-Would you expect the top forensic experts in Italy to say they thought the testing was valid if it was not? Wouldn't this damage their reputation a great deal? I wonder why they were/are so sure of it. :waitasec: Wasn't one referred to as the 'father' of Italian forensics?
-If you are suggesting contamination of the bra clasp from that video, where did RS's dna come from? Are you claiming it was on purpose or accidental if there was any contamination?
-Why would they video this if what they were doing was so wrong? If they put on clean gloves before entering the room, wouldn't that dna have at least already been in the room in a 'worst' case scenario?
-Would not a sealed crime scene protect the evidence in the room? Don't people in the US get convicted or released due to dna gathered years and years before? Why is the number of days afterward relevant? Didn't the defense reps have to be present too at least outside the cottage?
***I'm starting to realize (I'm kind of hardheaded you know):
Even if the bra-clasp evidence is found valid- some here (and elsewhere) will not believe it.
Even if the knife evidence is found valid- some here will not believe it.
Realization that the appeal judge only accepted testing of these two items, IMO showing the remainder of the defense request unneeded and unfounded... and verifying the other evidence showing guilt of the two.
Even if over 20 Judges and TWO juries find AK and RS guilty of involvement in the murder of Meredith- some here will never believe it.
Even if both appeals fail and the Supreme Court rules the guilty verdict valid- some here and elsewhere will not believe it.
It is a lost cause debating against this view, but sometimes very hard to resist. :banghead:
fred, Hendry answers most of your questions in his reconstruction. But I will add there was no "to the side" during the struggle; the room isn't really big enough to provide room for anyone to "step aside," not with four people in the tiny room.
As for the credibility of the appellate court, I have said I see no reason to assume Italy is especially incompetent or corrupt. Neither do i see any reason to assume its judicial system has magical powers. If an unjust verdict is returned in this case, it will not be the first time innocent people have been convicted, not in the world and not (I suspect) in Italy.
As for the DNA questions, you are correct to this extent: regardless of what the appellate court rules, I will never agree that the bra clasp was properly collected. It was not. So perhaps the court's report will be entitled: "Who Are You Going to Believe? Me or Your Lyin' Eyes?"
I do believe Amanda is Guilty, I Do Not believe however that she was the one who struck the fatal blow ( or any blows for that matter).
I do believe she WAS at the cottage that night and KNEW what was going down.
I do believe she WAS at the cottage that night and KNEW what was going down.
With all things considered, it's pretty obvious no one walked around and tucked her in. (according to BN's book) the top sheet was found crumpled underneath the duvet ..speculating, it appears, whoever picked up the duvet must of inadvertently picked up the top sheet too and in one fell swoop it was done.
It's too bad Ron Hendry didn't write these articles in '07 - they're good. I hope he is being paid.
OldSteve
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What do you think AK's motivation was?
as opposed to the Injustice timeline, the times below fit more in line with "the black man running" up the street.. from Perugia Shock,
Gip Claudia Matteini interviewing Rudi Guede on December 7th 2007, right after his extradition from Germany (phones were found in the garden on via Sperandio):
Matteini: Phone printouts showed that Meredith cellphone started an Internet connection with her bank. And this at 22.25, right? At 22.15. Which means 10.15 / 10 and a half.
Rudy: There was no phone at home.
M: You haven't seen any phone?
R: None.
M: What should we say of this message sent from Meredith Cellphone? From printouts that we have it was sent from Meredith's house. So, that phone at 10.30 was at Meredith's place and you at 10.30 were at Meredith's place having... this fight with this person. So, explain us these facts because these are objective data. We got the objective datum that at 10.25 a message is sent from Meredith's cellphone and is sent from Meredith's place. You left Meredith's place at 10.30, 10.35, right?
R: Yes.
M: So, this message is sent from Meredith's house while the phone was there?
R: Yes, that wasn't me madam, I repeat.
M: There's your hand print on her pillow and you cannot remember even the color of the pillow. But you remember many data and many other details. A call starts from Meredith's cellphone while the phone is in Meredith's house and you are in Meredith's house. Now you must give us logic explanations of all this. Do you understand what is your position?
R: I understand madam. I have not sent any message, that's the problem. From no cellphone.
M: So tell us who sent the message and who was in the house with you. And what really happened in that house in those hours.
R: Madam, I'm telling you that I have not sent any message because if I had a chance to have a mobile phone in my hand and send a message or make a call I would have called 100 ...
M: Now this is not credible.
R: I would have called 118.
M: Do you understand that this is not credible?
And then her interview ends like this:
M: Do you realize where via Sperandio is? Do you know it?
R: Via Sperandio? I don't know, no, no, no ...
M: Fine, if he doesn't know where via Sperandio is I don't have any other questions.
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/01/confession.html
Rudy: There was no phone at home.
M: You haven't seen any phone?
R: None.
M: What should we say of this message sent from Meredith Cellphone? From printouts that we have it was sent from Meredith's house. So, that phone at 10.30 was at Meredith's place and you at 10.30 were at Meredith's place having... this fight with this person. So, explain us these facts because these are objective data. We got the objective datum that at 10.25 a message is sent from Meredith's cellphone and is sent from Meredith's place. You left Meredith's place at 10.30, 10.35, right?
R: Yes.
M: So, this message is sent from Meredith's house while the phone was there?
R: Yes, that wasn't me madam, I repeat.
M: There's your hand print on her pillow and you cannot remember even the color of the pillow. But you remember many data and many other details. A call starts from Meredith's cellphone while the phone is in Meredith's house and you are in Meredith's house. Now you must give us logic explanations of all this. Do you understand what is your position?
R: I understand madam. I have not sent any message, that's the problem. From no cellphone.
M: So tell us who sent the message and who was in the house with you. And what really happened in that house in those hours.
R: Madam, I'm telling you that I have not sent any message because if I had a chance to have a mobile phone in my hand and send a message or make a call I would have called 100 ...
M: Now this is not credible.
R: I would have called 118.
M: Do you understand that this is not credible?
And then her interview ends like this:
M: Do you realize where via Sperandio is? Do you know it?
R: Via Sperandio? I don't know, no, no, no ...
M: Fine, if he doesn't know where via Sperandio is I don't have any other questions.
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/01/confession.html
from the timeline at Injustice:
10:00 p.m. Rudy Guede uses Meredith's UK cell phone to attempt call her UK bank.The call connects to a cell tower that services Ponte Rio, Montelaguardia, Perugia, Italy. This cell tower services the area where Meredith's phones would later be found. This is a different cell tower than the tower that services Meredith's cottage. This proves that Guede had already left Meredith's cottage and made his way back to the garden. It's a 10 minute walk from Meredith's cottage to the garden where her phones were found, Via Sperandio 5b, Perugia, Italy. Note that this area was also close to Guede's apartment.
10:13 p.m. Meredith's phone receives a picture message from a cell tower that services Ponte Rio, Montelaguardia, Perugia, Italy. The same tower that intercepted Guede's call to Meredith's bank. The phone was laying in the garden by 10:13 p.m. Guede had already discarded the phones at this time.
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/timeline-2.html
10:13 p.m. Meredith's phone receives a picture message from a cell tower that services Ponte Rio, Montelaguardia, Perugia, Italy. The same tower that intercepted Guede's call to Meredith's bank. The phone was laying in the garden by 10:13 p.m. Guede had already discarded the phones at this time.
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/timeline-2.html
Jeeze, Louise! No wonder this is confusing, given that RG's interrogator gives the call time as 10:25, 10:15 and 10:30 (actually "10 and a half") all in one sentence. Even allowing for translation errors, that's quite a range of times for one call. But how was the bank called at any of those times if the phone was lying in the garden by 10:13?
Re the Injustice timeline: if the 10 p.m. time for the bank call is correct and if that call was made near the site where the phones were discarded, then it's virtually impossible for RS to have made the bank call. RS' records show him turning his computer off at 9:46. That gives him 14 minutes to walk to MK's cottage, kill her, steal her phone and then walk to Via Sperandio. Even setting the murder aside, it would take him 20 minutes just to walk to the cottage, steal the phones and then walk to the disposal site. He doesn't have 20 minutes according to the records we see.
AK can't have made the bank call either, unless she left RS at his apartment and proceeded to the cottage earlier. (Yes, I know: on the Night of a Thousand Statements, RS said AK left the apartment without him at 9, but he later recanted that statement in his own journal.)
I haven't read all the testimony. Was nothing made of these timeline problems during the trial?
Re the Injustice timeline: if the 10 p.m. time for the bank call is correct and if that call was made near the site where the phones were discarded, then it's virtually impossible for RS to have made the bank call. RS' records show him turning his computer off at 9:46. That gives him 14 minutes to walk to MK's cottage, kill her, steal her phone and then walk to Via Sperandio. Even setting the murder aside, it would take him 20 minutes just to walk to the cottage, steal the phones and then walk to the disposal site. He doesn't have 20 minutes according to the records we see.
AK can't have made the bank call either, unless she left RS at his apartment and proceeded to the cottage earlier. (Yes, I know: on the Night of a Thousand Statements, RS said AK left the apartment without him at 9, but he later recanted that statement in his own journal.)
I haven't read all the testimony. Was nothing made of these timeline problems during the trial?
I wonder if the two of them (AK and RS) were so high that night they actually don't remember what they were doing?
I think that's possible, jjenny. However, the higher one gets on marijuana/hashish the more passive one gets, as a rule. They tested negative for drugs that make people aggressive such as cocaine.
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