• #30,401
So unprofessional. Not only is that an environmentally damaging practice it's costly to process all those gloves for DNA in a lab. IMO
I'm having an incredibly hard time grasping that all manner of LE people would take off their gloves and just drop them willy nilly all over the ground for miles around, never mind at the property. It's so insane to think about, I don't believe it. Until I hear that statement from the mouths of LE, I choose to think that what the journalist ( whoever that was ) said about that was taken out of context.
 
  • #30,402
So what are the steps now that they have DNA off of the glove? Run it through CODIS? Anyone know how long that takes?
Then what, assuming no hits? Go to a database where you can build out a genealogy profile? Are those the steps? TIA!
 
  • #30,403
Someone suggested a perp. may have accessed the inside of the garage during the two minutes the garage door was opened and closed when TC dropped Nancy off. A question I have, is that the way Namacy and TC would ususally access the house?
 
  • #30,404
FOR PEOPLE HERE WHO ARE SAYING IT WASNT A Kidnaping.....HERE YOU GO

Kidnapping is generally defined as taking a person against their will by force, threat, or deceit, often for ransom or to facilitate another crime, such as sexual assault or injury. Abduction, often considered a broader term, involves unlawfully taking a person—frequently a child—away from their guardian, sometimes without direct violence, such as through persuasion or fraud.

Exactly what what you call it? NG wasn't taken voluntarily, to attend a tea party. JMO MOO
Abduction is what I would call it. The ransom demands were too late for this to be a kidnapping imo.
 
  • #30,405
My suggestion: Put a strong PIO at the mic, do some damage control, and reset the narrative going forward.
I've been wondering if PCSD even has a PIO. Has anyone heard from (or of) one? I'm not that familiar with this field, but I know that the agencies around me all have PIOs, and all of the local press have relationships with them. Is Pima County too small of an agency to have someone in this role?
 
  • #30,406
Quotation marks are used for when directly quoting from another source.
When you quote from another source a link must be provided. That is my understanding. My post was all musing and was stated as IMO< JMO ETC. My "other source" is the possible thought process of a deranged potential perpetrator.
 
  • #30,407
Based on this article it sounds as if digging in the desert would be quite difficult.



If you try to dig a hole in your yard in Tucson, chances are that you will soon hit a very hard, almost impenetrable layer.

The term “caliche” is a colloquial word that means different things in different places. In the Sonoran Desert, it means a mixture of gravel, sand, clay and other desert debris cemented by porous calcium carbonate and is more properly called a calcic horizon. These calcic horizons generally occur two to four feet below the surface and can be inches to many feet thick. Caliche forms only in arid and semi-arid areas. In Tucson, with an average annual rainfall of 10 to 12 inches, caliche forms more than ten inches below the surface.
One thought I had too is that they would have to consider the risk of attracting predators, such as coyotes, rodents or javelin, to the site or the remains causing the animals to follow and attack them as they are carried.

JMO/MOO
 
  • #30,408
Re Motive. Because it is possible it is intended kidnapping for cover for murder. 1 possibility I reiterate. But if so then they wouldn't want it to look like she was killed in the home and then removed. That would raise other flags and paths maybe. Injured last known would be ok and maybe help their strategy if cover. Remember the LE keep stating kidnapping not possible homicide which may be due to the amount of blood found in the home.

The ransom notes part of this is what continues to keep this option open. It didn't seem like a serious attempt. Shaded toward it being a "celebrity kidnapping" - note went to TMZ. Could be more mud in the water for strategy.

And if it was for ransom originally they could continue the ransom plan in return for the body which would be far riskier than trying to return an alive person who can talk and has additional DNA on them. Her body may be very important for the family to retrieve.

Open to thoughts on this.
Are you suggesting a staged kidnapping or intended kidnap which somehow turned to murder?
 
  • #30,409
Helpful and interesting.

If the abductor killed NG, they likely wanted to get NG's body out of their car as soon as possible. So, this article suggests that LE will likely find NG's body in an isolated area that is convenient to the abductor and near where they live, work or on a familiar travel route.

If they got rid of NG's body on their way home, near their home, workplace or a familiar travel route, it's unlikely that it would be on the highway going up to Mt Lemon. It's about 18-19 miles from NG's house to the beginning of the more remote and steep areas of Catalina Highway going up toward Mt Lemon. This area is not on most people's travel routes or near where most people live and work, and would likely not be on the abductor's radar. If the abductor lived in the area between Tanque Verde and Catalina Highway or further east, of course it's possible, but it just doesn't seem that it would be convenient to the abductor.

MOO

Or, Mexico.

JMO.
 
  • #30,410
There has been a lot of discussion about how poorly public communication has been handled in this case.

As a police public relations specialist, I’ll say this: In high-profile cases, it’s imperative for law enforcement to get in front of the story. A disciplined, well executed communications strategy is critical.

When agencies don’t communicate clearly and consistently, speculation fills the gap and public confidence is eroded—as we’re seeing here.

A strong PIO/comms team helps:

• Protect investigative integrity
• Control misinformation
• Coordinate media access
• Maintain public trust
• Demonstrate professionalism
• Encourage public cooperation

Vague or inconsistent communication damages credibility.

In this investigation, both the PCSD and the FBI would benefit substantially from a more strategic communications approach.

My suggestion: Put a strong PIO at the mic, do some damage control, and reset the narrative going forward.

— MOO
Sheriff could certainly have found your knowledge helpful, and he certainly should have a PIO in charge of communication. IMO, he's been overwhelmed by the extensive media and isn't knowledgable in strategic communication. Not too late for Sheriff to hire a PIO and have them do, as you say, damage control and ret the narrative. JMO
 
  • #30,411
I think deliberately leaving a physical piece of evidence, such as a note, is one of the least likely things a kidnapper would do in this day and age.

JMO
I agree if it's a kidnapper who is technologically savvy and knew what they were doing so to speak but then why was there a time gap in sending the ransom note? And why no proof of life? Surely they knew if they're smart that would be necessary. I know there are no real answers to these questions at this point.

If it's the revenge person why haven't they claimed responsibility? As others have pointed out they would want people to know why.

But again, I realized is was somewhat farfetched that they would leave something. Like everyone else I have a lot of questions whirling around in my mind that won't be answered without more solid info.
 
  • #30,412
The chyron on News Nation (TV) states:

FBI: GLOVE FOUND APPEARS TO MATCH VIDEO

I was hoping/assuming (?) that the DNA on the found glove matches DNA found on the porch. I don't see how this can go far if it's just a visual match to that particular set of gloves. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what's being reported at this point.

All jmo/imo.
I agree.

Relatedly, weren’t there reports of DNA from IN the house or has that been proven incorrect? Seems like that would’ve been discovered well before this glove and already be back from the lab?
 
  • #30,413
Right, and it seemed incomprehensible at the time, just like this glove by the side of the road does. However, from what we now know about the Idaho murders, it seems a likely scenario was that Xana maybe was making noise, maybe approaching the stairs and spooked him, wherein he suddenly needed to take care of her, rather than make sure nothing was left behind. He then encountered yet another human being to deal with (Ethan) and subsequently just vamoosed, thinking he was going to be there all night at this point.

So, I'm thinking that right now leaving a glove by the road might just be a factor of whatever was happening at the time, which was a LOT if he did, indeed, have a kidnapping victim on his hands. Lot's of things to keep track of (seems like several pairs of gloves, other stuff, like whatever was in the backpack, etc.) And, speaking of keeping track of things, it's always looked to me like he had maybe a couple of pairs of trousers on, maybe to protect him from DNA? Anyway, the trousers seem very tight to me and maybe even contribute to his somewhat slow movements.

Yeah I think the adrenaline these guys go through leads to panicked moves that comes back to bite them. Another one I can think of was Gerald Mason who threw a gun he used to kill 2 police officers In California...into a backyard 1 mile away. That gun was used to connect him to the crime 45 years later. Of course, he couldn't conceive the technological advances that would be made since he committed that crime.
 
  • #30,414
I've been wondering if PCSD even has a PIO. Has anyone heard from (or of) one? I'm not that familiar with this field, but I know that the agencies around me all have PIOs, and all of the local press have relationships with them. Is Pima County too small of an agency to have someone in this role?
Replying to myself, there is at least a PIO role listed on the org chart (but not with a name). I couldn't find much more info out there, but maybe someone else can. Source: https://pimasheriff.org/application/files/2117/6462/2321/Organization_Chart_12_2025.pdf
 
  • #30,415
It's a free country. Many elderly people choose not to have these.
True. Plus, apple and samsung watches also provide fall alerts. She may have felt a life alert was not needed because of that.
 
  • #30,416
Or, Mexico.

JMO.
Mexico would be a great idea but I'm guessing it would have been too dangerous for them to drive through Border Control with a body in their car. MOO
 
  • #30,417
I can’t remember where I read/heard it before (it related to another case), but LE might have the option to try for prints OR DNA. Print recovery, possibly involving superglue fuming, would likely destroy DNA evidence. Maybe they have different techniques these days, though. Do you know?
If the print was taken using a powder or tape method, you may be able to obtain dna from the print or the surface from where the print was taken. On the other hand, if they swabbed for dna first, the print would likely be destroyed or unusable. I believe the FBI was at the scene where the RR was parked. Their forensic expertise is likely much more up to date than local/smaller agencies’.
Although this is a little dated, the following article may shed some light on your question.
 
  • #30,418
I do not know the answer to that. Inside or outside the range is small and probably based on the Bluetooth strength capability on the drone or phone trying to find her pacemaker. The pacemaker only gives a small range signal. But, this line of thought is focused on something unique to NG…. and IMO worth the try.
We also do not know what the govt's capabilities are boosting their own sniffer's range. Which I am sure is a closely held secret. I have looked for this everywhere on the web and 0 credible mention of it. NGs pacer range would be somewhat irrelevant if the govt has made significant advances in the sniffer they are using.
 
  • #30,419
If we're going to continue to beat the dead horse of how long the garage was open, I think we should at lest keep referring back to the actual words the sheriff used in the press conference:


BBM, source is at about 6:55 in this video:

So, the sheriff is going out of his way to emphasize "approximately." And we also can see that the times are rounded to the minute, so even if we take those timestamps as gospel, IMO it could have been closer to 3 minutes than two. We don't have enough information to know.

JMO, this debate over the garage door long ago started generating more heat than light, but if we're gonna do it, we should use the full context.
Sorry to keep coming back to the garage door—those of you with app-controlled garage doors, what could result in only an “approximate” open time but a definitive close time?

Back when I had a garage door, I had one of those clicker remotes and a button on the wall by the interior entrance door, which would occasionally malfunction and we did not notice in the moment. IOW, we would sometimes arrive back home, or go downstairs in the morning to find the door not quite closed, or even completely open if there was a sensor or remote problem.

Since NG left her home initially by Uber, she may not have noticed that her garage door was not quite secure from whenever it had been previously used. Then when she and SIL return home, would the app register differently than usual? Would you get an alert if there was a malfunction, or could the door have been tampered with? I know the sheriff has been criticized for some of his wording, but he really went out of his way to emphasize “approximately.”
 
  • #30,420
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