Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #2

[Emi]

Well, it won't let me watch the video. But thank you anyway. :sheesh:

I actually don't even see a video to watch.

unfortunately they have removed the video it was up earlier

 

[neesaki]

unfortunately they have removed the video it was up earlier

Well that explains it.

 

[redheadedgal]

my guess is the news site referred to or linked a reference to the 2010 jawbone. any reference to current remains is "bone fragments".

 

[Bit of hope]

In the Dutch media they are very skeptical about the findings....and everything the father claims....

 

[SeekingJana]

My take on this is that the Aruban LE found some bones and did Gods knows what with them because they were protecting the VDS family. Further searching has yielded bone fragments in the park right by the hotel. From this article dated 8/23/17:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...olloway-Dug-bones-young-European-woman-s.html

We can read the following words of Mr. Holloway, Natalee's father:
" And had information that took us to a spot where remains were found. And we took those remains and had those remains tested. And they just returned last week they are human remains."

So, unless someone thinks Dave Holloway is an out and out liar, the article plainly says remains ( obviously only bone) have just been tested and resulted to be human remains. The further results show the DNA to be European descent on the prelim. testing.

If he knew there were fillings found with the bones or in a jawbone and they were the old silver/ mercury fillings that Natalee was not likely to have, wouldn't he have just said so? Also, why is it hard to believe that someone sifted and dug in the sand to find bone fragments never recovered or tested before?
She has been likely dead since May 2005. The remains should be deeply covered by sand now. The investigator found bones that were deep in the sand, layers deep, likely bone fragments.
If they had large bones or long bones, we'd already know if they belong to Natalee but they are having to do mDNA testing due to the fragmented small pieces.

Aruba and Paulus VDS destroyed the major portion of her remains many years ago, IMO.
Also, if Aruba LE says Horses, I am going to look for Zebras. They are lying liars who lied and lie even now.

 

[Kamille]

According to most media resources, including the oxygen blog, they have NOT determined the bone fragments to be female.

http://people.com/crime/natalee-holloway-remains-caucasian-gender-unknown-aruba/

 

[SeekingJana]

According to most media resources, including the oxygen blog, they have NOT determined the bone fragments to be female.

http://people.com/crime/natalee-holloway-remains-caucasian-gender-unknown-aruba/

That's correct, and I tried to edit my post and could not because there is some kind of script running here which my AV thinks is malware. No, they do not know if the bones are of a female at this point.

 

[Kamille]

Several key questions about this latest development remain unclear, though network executives vow answers in future episodes of the ongoing series.

PEOPLE reached out to Oxygen about the apparent discrepancy, asking whether the remains found by Holloway came from the same site as the one investigated by Aruba police. PEOPLE also asked why Holloway and Ward didn’t turn over the remains to authorities as part of a formal criminal investigation, and why they apparently took the remains from the island to the U.S., a possible criminal offense, according to the prosecutor’s office.

The series’ executive producer, LB Horschler, responded that subsequent episodes of the series “will answer most, if not all of your questions.”

http://people.com/crime/natalee-holloway-remains-caucasian-gender-unknown-aruba/

So it appears that Oxygen is controlling the information being released and the timing of the results of the DNA testing for the benefit of the "show".

MOO

 

[SeekingJana]

http://people.com/crime/natalee-holloway-remains-caucasian-gender-unknown-aruba/

So it appears that Oxygen is controlling the information being released and the timing of the results of the DNA testing for the benefit of the "show".

MOO

Dave SAYS they removed the remains and brought them to the US for testing.
How is a TV cable channel manipulating what he said, which is, quoting:
" .... took us to a spot where remains were found. And we took those remains and had those remains tested. And they just returned last week they are human remains."

Are you saying that " last week" means " last week" 2 years ago or more?
Because that's not what I'm getting from the quote. I'm taking away that yes, their anthropologist and investigator removed bone fragments ( so yes, it was done illegally according to Aruba law), and yes, they brought them to a lab in the US who can do DNA testing on them.
IMO, Aruba law means less than nothing or JVDS would have been tried, convicted and sentenced to a life in prison. Aruba LE is a sick joke, and Joran and Paulus VDS both laughed at reporters regarding Aruba LE's obstruction of justice because Paulus VDS paid them off. More than once, probably more than 4-5 times, he paid for Joran's freedom.

 

[Caffeine]

All this conflicting information is bizarre. First, it was there are no remains; she was cremated. Next, there are remains but just animal. Now it's in fact human remains...

Meanwhile there's a TV show happening. This is just weird.

 

[Kamille]

Dave SAYS they removed the remains and brought them to the US for testing.
How is a TV cable channel manipulating what he said, which is, quoting:
" .... took us to a spot where remains were found. And we took those remains and had those remains tested. And they just returned last week they are human remains."

Are you saying that " last week" means " last week" 2 years ago or more?
Because that's not what I'm getting from the quote. I'm taking away that yes, their anthropologist and investigator removed bone fragments ( so yes, it was done illegally according to Aruba law), and yes, they brought them to a lab in the US who can do DNA testing on them.
IMO, Aruba law means less than nothing or JVDS would have been tried, convicted and sentenced to a life in prison. Aruba LE is a sick joke, and Joran and Paulus VDS both laughed at reporters regarding Aruba LE's obstruction of justice because Paulus VDS paid them off. More than once, probably more than 4-5 times, he paid for Joran's freedom.

I was just saying that it appears that Oxygen is the "go to" for information and even DH and TJW are referring questions to them. Most likely a deal was struck with them and they footed the bill for this 18 month investigation so they are likely controlling the release of information to coincide with their "show" for maximum public interest and revenue.

Holloway and Ward declined further comment to PEOPLE about the discovery, and Holloway referred questions to Oxygen.

Since the FBI is involved in various aspects of this case, I'm sure they could get a much quicker DNA analysis that didn't happen to correspond with the ending of the series if they chose. But that's fine. I'm glad DH had this avenue available to him to possibly have found some of his precious daughter's remains and more information to prove the cover up by Aruba LE about JVDS's presumed guilt in this murder.

I'm not so sure those remains were removed illegally either. Unless it's illegal to bring back shells, coral, sand and rocks from the island. I'm never sure what the laws are about that when traveling. Perhaps they went to the site after the Aruban LE were finished their search and found more items that appeared to be rocks or coral fragments and brought them back just to see. Apparently the Aruban LE claim that they DID find bone fragments and wrote them off as animal bones. If they left some behind was it illegal for DH to go back and bring them home?

IOW, I think we agree here.

MOO

 

[lstiff]

Dave SAYS they removed the remains and brought them to the US for testing.
How is a TV cable channel manipulating what he said, which is, quoting:
" .... took us to a spot where remains were found. And we took those remains and had those remains tested. And they just returned last week they are human remains."

Are you saying that " last week" means " last week" 2 years ago or more?
Because that's not what I'm getting from the quote. I'm taking away that yes, their anthropologist and investigator removed bone fragments ( so yes, it was done illegally according to Aruba law), and yes, they brought them to a lab in the US who can do DNA testing on them.
IMO, Aruba law means less than nothing or JVDS would have been tried, convicted and sentenced to a life in prison. Aruba LE is a sick joke, and Joran and Paulus VDS both laughed at reporters regarding Aruba LE's obstruction of justice because Paulus VDS paid them off. More than once, probably more than 4-5 times, he paid for Joran's freedom.

I agree and I wanted to add my take on his "last week" quote means recently b/c MSM has been posting interviews and print of this recently. IMO of course but I think we are talking about recent developments not years ago.

JMO

 

[Dushi]

I was just saying that it appears that Oxygen is the "go to" for information and even DH and TJW are referring questions to them. Most likely a deal was struck with them and they footed the bill for this 18 month investigation so they are likely controlling the release of information to coincide with their "show" for maximum public interest and revenue.



Since the FBI is involved in various aspects of this case, I'm sure they could get a much quicker DNA analysis that didn't happen to correspond with the ending of the series if they chose. But that's fine. I'm glad DH had this avenue available to him to possibly have found some of his precious daughter's remains and more information to prove the cover up by Aruba LE about JVDS's presumed guilt in this murder.

I'm not so sure those remains were removed illegally either. Unless it's illegal to bring back shells, coral, sand and rocks from the island. I'm never sure what the laws are about that when traveling. Perhaps they went to the site after the Aruban LE were finished their search and found more items that appeared to be rocks or coral fragments and brought them back just to see. Apparently the Aruban LE claim that they DID find bone fragments and wrote them off as animal bones. If they left some behind was it illegal for DH to go back and bring them home?

IOW, I think we agree here.

MOO

As far as i know, it is illegal in most Caribbean Islands
Unimportant, but just for the record

 

[Bit of hope]

For the record: I unsubscribed from this thread...I really hoped that they did find the remains of Natalee, but this story turns out to be questionable ....again.... I will read in the media what is really going on....Rip Natalee....

 

[SeekingJana]

I agree that the Oxygen channel may be footing the bill as they have hired the forensic anthropologist who worked on the ID of remains from 9/11 at Ground Zero, Jason Kolowski.
I wondered, as I was reading the update on the DM, how the Holloways could continue to pay experts to search, to find in Aruba, and then to test bone fragments in the USA.

If Dr. Kolowski has already ID'd the bone fragments as both human and from Eastern European descent, I'm not going to quibble one bit about this finding.
Mitochondrial DNA testing will give the final answer, it's her remains or it's not her remains.

I hold out hope that her remains will be identified, as gruesome as that is. There was such a miscarriage of justice from the start because she was murdered in Aruba.

 

[quiec]

They looked at the jawbone (molars with dental fillings) to determine that this woman was of Eastern European descent. Eastern Europe uses dental amalgam with mercury. It seems very unlikely that Natalie had cheap fillings with mercury.

Though I don't believe the current remains have anything to do with dental forensics, I am a dentist, and this notion is thoroughly misinformed. All over the US amalgam fillings are still being placed today. Though materials have improved tremendously over the past few decades and many practices have moved away from it (I haven't placed a single one in 8 or so years), it is still in widespread use here, is taught in dental schools, and certainly back when I graduated in 2005 we were doing tons of them still. It is not the slightest bit unlikely that an 18 year old in 2005 would have had an amalgam.

 

[coastal]

Though I don't believe the current remains have anything to do with dental forensics, I am a dentist, and this notion is thoroughly misinformed. All over the US amalgam fillings are still being placed today. Though materials have improved tremendously over the past few decades and many practices have moved away from it (I haven't placed a single one in 8 or so years), it is still in widespread use here, is taught in dental schools, and certainly back when I graduated in 2005 we were doing tons of them still. It is not the slightest bit unlikely that an 18 year old in 2005 would have had an amalgam.

Thank you for this post, quiec! And welcome to Websleuths!

 

[SeekingJana]

Though I don't believe the current remains have anything to do with dental forensics, I am a dentist, and this notion is thoroughly misinformed. All over the US amalgam fillings are still being placed today. Though materials have improved tremendously over the past few decades and many practices have moved away from it (I haven't placed a single one in 8 or so years), it is still in widespread use here, is taught in dental schools, and certainly back when I graduated in 2005 we were doing tons of them still. It is not the slightest bit unlikely that an 18 year old in 2005 would have had an amalgam.

Thank you for weighing in on this!! I thought some amalgam fillings were still being placed. Alabama is not very progressive in dentistry, so it's entirely possible she could have had an amalgam filling. ( I once lived in the state, so I know that it's not progressive cutting edge with dentistry. I wouldn't snark on the state or its dentists).

Once I moved away from Alabama ( with my molars having several amalgam fillings) dentists in my new city of residence who were quite up to date and progressive wanted to drill them out and put composite material fillings in. I declined.

Years later, I ended up with root canals and lovely crowns instead because it turned out the teeth should have not been filled in the first place, but endodontistry done from the beginning.
I think there was finally one endodontist and one oral surgeon in a 35 mile radius of my home shortly before I left the state.

 

[redheadedgal]

can we move past the jawbone? it's irrelevant. no source has mentioned one being currently involved. if i am wrong, please correct me.

 

[lonetraveler]

In the Dutch media they are very skeptical about the findings....and everything the father claims....

But of course they are skeptical.