CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[LadyL]

delete

 

[Sharyne]

The SBSO MUST have had CM under surveillance, once he became the suspect in the MS's family murder. That is how I interpreted it.

But, SB didn't get involved until the bodies were found, right?

 

[Sharyne]

Found it... but the question was not just "do you know how he got the Trooper down there and got back?"

It was...

Q: Can one person kill a family of 4, bury the bodies 100 miles North in the Mojave Desert, drop the car 250 South at the Mexico border, can one, can one person do all that and then return home to make it look like he was home that night to receive a phone call from Joseph McStay?

A: Yes

Q: It's possible?

A: And we have the evidence to prove that.


IMO he is addressing the crime as a whole, not the Trooper and how he got back, which is what the original comments were about

Exactly!

 

[QueenBofOB]

Iirc both the defense and the state has mentioned his past history. I could be mistaken though.

Part of this case involves him stealing from Joey. It is very much like his past two felonies.

Yes and it would be his 3rd strike. That sounds like a pretty strong motive, to me. He then proceeded to steal as much as he could, thinking no one would find out. And even had the audacity, to rip off the mother of one of his victims. He has no self-control. And who racks up a $30,000 GAMBLING debt? He doesn't sound very intelligent, to me. Or a very good poker player, either.

 

[missy1974]

Are we sure he had any strikes? This is his criminal history:

DATE CHARGE DISPOSITION (MAX SENTENCE)
02-04-77 Burglary 66 days in jail
07-28-77 Petty theft 60 days in jail
10-24-78 Criminal trespass 30 days in jail
11-18-78 Burglary 2 years in prison
04-16-85 Receiving stolen property 365 days in jail
02-04-87 Receiving stolen property 16 months in prison
05-21-88 Receiving stolen property 14 days in jail
06-17-88 Parole violation
04-02-01 Burglary Grand theft 180 days in jail

This link has a list of strike offenses in California from back in 2011 (closest I could find to the around this time): LIST OF STRIKE OFFENSES IN CALIFORNIA | Sigal Law Group

IF he already had 2 strikes, I am surprised that the prosecution wouldn't want to show that somehow, if they could.

 

[ThorJanus]

I’m going to sound like a lawyer trying to have it both ways:

1: I don’t think we know that he passed a lie detector test.

2: Sociopaths are good at passing lie detector tests, even when they’re lying.

Call me a skeptic and I know it has been widely reported that there was a lie detector test but I have not seen official evidence. I admit I have not poured over all the pretrial info or all the public info and only going on hearsay. Did CM take a lie detector test?

 

[ThorJanus]

Are we sure he had any strikes? This is his criminal history:

DATE CHARGE DISPOSITION (MAX SENTENCE)
02-04-77 Burglary 66 days in jail
07-28-77 Petty theft 60 days in jail
10-24-78 Criminal trespass 30 days in jail
11-18-78 Burglary 2 years in prison
04-16-85 Receiving stolen property 365 days in jail
02-04-87 Receiving stolen property 16 months in prison
05-21-88 Receiving stolen property 14 days in jail
06-17-88 Parole violation
04-02-01 Burglary Grand theft 180 days in jail

This link has a list of strike offenses in California from back in 2011 (closest I could find to the around this time): LIST OF STRIKE OFFENSES IN CALIFORNIA | Sigal Law Group

IF he already had 2 strikes, I am surprised that the prosecution wouldn't want to show that somehow, if they could.

I believe the 3 strikes law went into effect in 1994.

 

[Force Ten]

Are we sure he had any strikes? This is his criminal history:

DATE CHARGE DISPOSITION (MAX SENTENCE)
02-04-77 Burglary 66 days in jail
07-28-77 Petty theft 60 days in jail
10-24-78 Criminal trespass 30 days in jail
11-18-78 Burglary 2 years in prison
04-16-85 Receiving stolen property 365 days in jail
02-04-87 Receiving stolen property 16 months in prison
05-21-88 Receiving stolen property 14 days in jail
06-17-88 Parole violation
04-02-01 Burglary Grand theft 180 days in jail

This link has a list of strike offenses in California from back in 2011 (closest I could find to the around this time): LIST OF STRIKE OFFENSES IN CALIFORNIA | Sigal Law Group

IF he already had 2 strikes, I am surprised that the prosecution wouldn't want to show that somehow, if they could.

No time to look it up but he was in prison twice, not once. The jury is not allowed to know his prior convictions as it may prejudice their deliberations. I have varying feelings about this and I believe there are certain instances where the courts allow it into evidence, such as if the defendant has some prior convictions for the same crime(s) and even that has it's conflicts and deliberations. In this case, it's a little sketchy because he has a lifetime of theft, but as far as we know, no murders.

 

[MsFacetious]

To the contrary actually, I am feeling hesitant to post about my doubts about this case lol I maybe didn't make myself very clear... I really do think that he most likely is guilty, do I believe that the State is proving it right now? Nope, not to me anyway, and I have watched almost all of the testimony ( I think I have missed bits and pieces).

You are right about the Avery forum, and it's great to have all views and respectful discussion about it. After following that case for years now, I have come to the conclusion that I don't believe ANYTHING that a prosecutor says or LE says just because they say it, and it also goes the same for the Defense. I also don't believe that someone is automatically guilty just because they were arrested. I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work, is it? There are a ton of parallels that I see in these cases. Confirmation bias being one. I have learned a lot about wrongful convictions stemming from the Avery case, it's alarming to say the least. JMO

Yes, exactly this. I know there is plenty of time left but right now, the prosecution is not inspiring confidence at all. I am just not sure they have enough.

This is a very wise attitude to have about LE and attorneys! It's refreshing to see someone who doesn't automatically believe arrest = guilt. Working with a defense attorney who is an amazing man has really opened my eyes. I knew injustice happened before, of course. There is just something about witnessing it up close while trying to rectify it... with everyone against you because "they all claim they are innocent" that totally changes your perspective.

Confirmation bias is a HUGE issue. Especially if you have lazy investigators in addition.

I beg to differ with your opinion that all views are not welcome. They are, if they are reasonably and intelligently supported. To quote Missy's prior post, "I do want to hear from those that think he is not guilty, I want to know why... tell me why!!!!! I am open to the discussion." Exactly. Have the posters who are questioning his guilt clearly stated why they are? If so, I highly doubt if anyone here would shun them.

I am totally a dissenter in this thread but I'm not afraid to say it.

I question it simply because I haven't seen proof beyond a reasonable doubt, yet. My standard is higher than many I am sure and I've agreed with some very controversial verdicts because of that.

I don't know who killed them, because I was not there. It does seem like A LOT for one man to do. I'd PREFER to believe it was a man who didn't have children that was capable of this. I also feel like there were several people with means, opportunity and motive.

I absolutely agree that the Quick Books, phone records, grave location, theft and possible firing are indeed damning. If Chase was getting fired then his motive to keep Joey around is gone, he won't be profiting from him anymore. If he wasn't getting fired, I think there are better suspects.

I will chime in here because I didn't find the neighbors video helpful. I have difficulty hearing the case through all of the objections and the judge mumble but I have concluded the time stamps and the recordings had been tampered with. I think she said she did some rerecording after that date in order to save her hard drive space. I found the evidence to be very weak. Later the detective disputed the neighbor (Mitchely) was not cooperative with the police as she came across during examination. Although there has been a lot of discussion in the forums regarding the recordings. The prosecution did ascertain that the tailpipe proved that it was NOT the Trooper (Isuzu) leaving that night. Still what do we have so far? CM has been charged and at least we know there is enough evidence for the court to hold him for almost 5 years in prison. I still haven't been convinced there is a smoking gun against CM. The courtroom antics have been less than impressive. I have to say the defense team as despicable as they may come across are more convincing than the prosecution. The judge is unimpressive. This is my first cover to cover crime story that I have taken any interest in since the OJ Simpson case.

Really all that is required to hold him, is the charges. The length of time has been because he was willing to waive his right to a speedy trial, in order to be prepared for his defense. A quadruple murder suspect is going to be held until trial. Whether there is a smoking gun or not.

I do believe a shocked person would be standing bolt upright, wide-eyed, and struggling as best they could. Not shuffling and stumbling along, head way down ... they got me ..

MOO, of course.

I have seen a few defendants who were wrongly accused and arrested.
One was ANGRY... he looks downright homicidal in his prison ID picture. He's normally an extremely mellow guy.
Another was hysterically crying, because he couldn't afford a lawyer and thought he was doomed. He's a big tough guy normally.

Yet another who was facing life in prison, looked just like CM did. Dejected. Maybe wondering if he even has a chance to prove his innocence. Stunned that he has really been arrested for a crime he knows he didn't commit. It's just unreal that this is actually happening to him.

The reactions are as varied as the people. Wrongful convictions have shown that as well. Everyone reacts differently to being falsely accused, convicted and then exonerated.

While I don't share your or Missy's opinion that Merritt may be innocent, I do share your view about Missy being an asset in this forum along with so many others.

We are extremely fortunate to have many posters who have posted very informative information about this case, and have done so throughout.

That is why I always make sure I read every single post that has been posted here by everyone since day one.

Imo

I read every single post as well. Which is why I JUST caught up. I haven't posted since early in thread #3. So, I have about a billion posts quoted to respond to, sorry in advance.

 

[MsFacetious]

Ha! This would be a great question for the prosecution to ask the detective on the stand: Did you take fingerprints on the eggs and coffee (the "breakfast items") to determine whether they were from the victims or from.....someone else. Wouldn't the jury get the idea?

This would be something for the defense to point out. Because we pretty much know that they didn't do those things. It would be stupid for the prosecution to draw attention to it because it weakens their case.

How many chances for evidence collection were LOST?
How do we know that if they had investigated more thoroughly they wouldn't have found exculpatory evidence?
This is absolutely something I would point out if I was defending a guy that didn't commit the crime.

Yes, she's already been caught lying to LE and giving him an alibi. I wonder if that will be presented to the jury, at some point. Probably not. However, *I* think it's relevant.

Hmmmm if she has a proven history of lying that could possibly be used against her. If they both want to use her then they will likely not want to show her as a liar. If only one side wants to use her then the other side may try to use the dishonesty to impeach her testimony. To prove her less credible. If the lies are part of the case file, it may very well come in. Will be interesting to see how that is handled.

My problem with this is why no one checked up on the family when they were planning a party for the baby. No family or friends. Do you think someone would have gone by to check up? What about Friday night soccer? All I can think of is how people are so callus about people they are suppose to care for.

This has always bothered me as well. I'm not a social person at all. However, I'd be noticed missing in a couple of days. Even while living out of state from all family and friends. If I wasn't on social media or responding to messages for 48 hours SOMEONE would freak out. Especially if we were coming up on one of my children's birthdays.

Yes I think they will refute the cell phone data too. How will he explain the 90 min call to quikbooks using his own phone though I wonder? I think QB have notes of the conversation where he’s asking for the account to be closed. I really do hope the jury is bright enough to put the jigsaw puzzles together to create the bigger picture. He had the three strikes situation hanging over his head, CM was literally fighting for his life as he knew it vs a lifetime in an 8ft cell.

The 3 strikes has always been what I felt to be the most likely motive. However, I can't seem to verify it was on the table. So I'm wavering on that.

Are we sure he had any strikes? This is his criminal history:

DATE CHARGE DISPOSITION (MAX SENTENCE)
02-04-77 Burglary 66 days in jail
07-28-77 Petty theft 60 days in jail
10-24-78 Criminal trespass 30 days in jail
11-18-78 Burglary 2 years in prison
04-16-85 Receiving stolen property 365 days in jail
02-04-87 Receiving stolen property 16 months in prison
05-21-88 Receiving stolen property 14 days in jail
06-17-88 Parole violation
04-02-01 Burglary Grand theft 180 days in jail

This link has a list of strike offenses in California from back in 2011 (closest I could find to the around this time): LIST OF STRIKE OFFENSES IN CALIFORNIA | Sigal Law Group

IF he already had 2 strikes, I am surprised that the prosecution wouldn't want to show that somehow, if they could.

Maybe he didn't already have two strikes. Regular burglary doesn't appear to qualify, only residential or with a weapon.
If he didn't have 2 strikes that changes the whole thing from my view. Obviously not for the jury, since they don't know about priors anyway.

I can't find ANYTHING saying that he already had 2 strikes. Can anyone else? Surely it would have been mentioned in a news article at some point!

 

[katydid23]

It might not have been 3 strikes that he was afraid of. But he was recently incarcerated, IIRC.

Could he have been on parole?

 

[asyousay]

I have been thinking about Joey’s personality and he strikes me as somebody from what we know that he wouldn’t of gone to the police over Chase regardless of what he had done.

He just doesn’t seem the type at all to me and I think he would of sacked him and chalked it up to a life lesson.

 

[Tortoise]

Can anyone tell me what all these lights are on the Trooper?

Rear:

Red - brake light
White - ?
Orange - indicator

Front:

Headlight
Between headlight and orange light - is that a vertical running light, or ?
Side orange - indicator

photos- click to enlarge

 

[Tortoise]

The only thing I guess they are saying is a tail pipe is this -


click to enlarge

 

[Tortoise]

It might not have been 3 strikes that he was afraid of. But he was recently incarcerated, IIRC.

Could he have been on parole?

He was on parole until later in 2010, around October time I seem to recall.

ETA It was September, and it was probation not parole.

Merritt violated probation several times in subsequent years and failed to appear in court on numerous occasions, resulting in his probation period being extended and at least seven warrants being issued for his arrest between 2001 and 2010, the records showed.

His probation from the 2001 felony case ended on Sept. 14, 2010.

McStay murder mystery: Who is Chase Merritt?

 

[jash]

I wonder when the footage of the seemingly family of 4 at the Mexican border came out, whether there was a reaction by CM and what it was. Who said it's possible and who said it's impossible the missing McStay family? IIRC there were even reported sightings of a family of 4, one baby with strawberry mark on his forehead, that some said could well be the missing family. I can't recall but would like to know the reactions from various people of interests.

I watched the old E! Investigates program recently with Laura Ling. JM's mother and brother were quite certain it wasn't JM or SM on the video but both felt it was the kids. SM's friend Jesi acknowledged the clothing looked right but she didn't think it was them because SM had said a year earlier she would never take her kids there because too dangerous. Unfortunately CM was not part of the program (which is actually weird, because so many of their other friends/associates were including DK).

They also discussed the internet search a few days before the disappearance regarding passports and taking children to Mexico. It was said there were a lot of people/workers in the house so it could have been anyone. I never considered that -- it could have been as innocuous as a worker asking the homeowners if they knew the requirements and SM/JM doing a search.

 

[missy1974]

The 3 strikes has always been what I felt to be the most likely motive. However, I can't seem to verify it was on the table. So I'm wavering on that.

Maybe he didn't already have two strikes. Regular burglary doesn't appear to qualify, only residential or with a weapon.
If he didn't have 2 strikes that changes the whole thing from my view. Obviously not for the jury, since they don't know about priors anyway.

I can't find ANYTHING saying that he already had 2 strikes. Can anyone else? Surely it would have been mentioned in a news article at some point!

I was wondering where you have been! Good to see you finally caught up

I could find nothing about any strikes against him. I just can't believe that the media or the state/prosecution wouldn't have said it somewhere along the way.

I found some articles that said it was second-degree burglary and grand theft - neither charge would have resulted in a strike as far as I can tell. It applied to serious and violent offences. The law has been changed since 2010, but from what I can tell, it was in regards to how the 3rd strike was applied (it used to be that it didn't matter what the 3rd charge was if you already had 2 strikes)

He was on probation, but no way to tell how the cheque theft would have affected that? If he owed Joey money because of a loan, that's not theft, if he was overpaid, that's not theft either. The February quickbooks cheques could have been, but they had that info back in 2010 or should have (actually I don't know if they did according to DuGal) and never charged him or nothing came of it.

Nine years after the McStay family disappeared, their accused killer heads to trial

In 2001, the Riverside County resident and father pleaded no contest to second-degree burglary and grand theft after authorities accused him of stealing from a San Gabriel Valley ironworks company. Merritt, now 61, was sentenced to six months in jail and three years’ probation. His probation was extended to a decade because he skipped so many court-ordered programs and was late to pay fines.

 

[Tortoise]

I have been thinking about Joey’s personality and he strikes me as somebody from what we know that he wouldn’t of gone to the police over Chase regardless of what he had done.

He just doesn’t seem the type at all to me and I think he would of sacked him and chalked it up to a life lesson.

The more I think about the case, and I've done a lot of thinking this weekend, the more I think Joey's murder was premeditated since the end of 2009. The relevance of his prior convictions/probation and Joey reporting him doesn't factor into it therefore imo.

 

[missy1974]

Can anyone tell me what all these lights are on the Trooper?

Rear:

Red - brake light
White - ?
Orange - indicator

Front:

Headlight
Between headlight and orange light - is that a vertical running light, or ?
Side orange - indicator

photos- click to enlarge

View attachment 167386 View attachment 167387 View attachment 167388

on the rear ... the white would be the reverse light?

Front... I am thinking a running light?

The only thing I guess they are saying is a tail pipe is this -

View attachment 167389 View attachment 167390
click to enlarge

I see what you are pointing at, but I don't know if that's the tail pipe or not LOL Could be!

 

[Tortoise]

on the rear ... the white would be the reverse light?

Front... I am thinking a running light?


I see what you are pointing at, but I don't know if that's the tail pipe or not LOL Could be!

Thanks missy. Of course, reverse light.

If that is a front side running light it can't be the Trooper. IMO.