CANADA Canada - Samuel Lottery, 17, London, Ont, 19 Jan 1996

[newone]

I have found something but am unable to link it as it is a another crime site...

1999 Patrick Maloney London Free Press is the article's author

one of the investigators of Sam's murder was Officer Dave Lucio who was murdered (domestic violence) who felt the letters were the 'heart of the investigation'.

The mother of Samuel indicated that the first letter arrived 3 weeks after Sam's disappearance and included an unsigned note indicating that they killed him and that they should look in the river. His mother was sure he was murdered.

A second letter was set to the Lottery home.

There is no mention of siblings but father and mother are named in the article.

 

[newone]

This is what I've been saying!!!!! I mean, what are the odds... seriously? How far could Samuels remains have shifted in relation to weather conditions & proximity to the church & other clear and easily accessible paths to the riverbank?

This is why I felt the need to explain posting via my phone. I cannot provide links without having difficulty & frustration so I have notes & maps saved but can't contribute much to this thread yet. And no wonder I never found anything about Pillar Of Fire or 27 Gunn St! I even checked the phonebook & yes, it would have been tiny. Meaning small congregation, few staff, small pool of people etc

the name of the church seems to have ''rebranded'' at least once or twice since his death....and thanks to dotr - even a discrepancy in the address - none of the buildings I have seen on that street resemble a church ((thinking signage)) to me .

 

[whiterhino]

I totally forgot, if you visit the LTC Bus website there is a way of viewing the city via aerial photo which might give more detail? I can't imagine it being better than google maps but it might be helpful? I haven't tried that yet but if you check the left menu on the LTC site, you can view routes by entering an address & click the option for aerial view.

I was actually thinking about Sams' physical description when I posted here yesterday. Bc I didn't recall him being very big or tall but high school feels like it was so long ago & it's hard to remember so many things. Downtown & the river paths have been almost made over. Beal was totally renovated. Blackfriars bridge & the bridge at Oxford have been rebuilt & even that church is gone.

I'm considering walking around over there by the church & river. Idk if that's a good or bad idea... But I also remember that story of the officer! How strange not only is the church gone but one of the investigating officers was killed too?! (unrelated but still bizarre & how unfortunate for Sams' case)

 

[newone]

I totally forgot, if you visit the LTC Bus website there is a way of viewing the city via aerial photo which might give more detail? I can't imagine it being better than google maps but it might be helpful? I haven't tried that yet but if you check the left menu on the LTC site, you can view routes by entering an address & click the option for aerial view.

I was actually thinking about Sams' physical description when I posted here yesterday. Bc I didn't recall him being very big or tall but high school feels like it was so long ago & it's hard to remember so many things. Downtown & the river paths have been almost made over. Beal was totally renovated. Blackfriars bridge & the bridge at Oxford have been rebuilt & even that church is gone.

I'm considering walking around over there by the church & river. Idk if that's a good or bad idea... But I also remember that story of the officer! How strange not only is the church gone but one of the investigating officers was killed too?! (unrelated but still bizarre & how unfortunate for Sams' case)

Have you gone to a HS Reunion?

If you can get to the School Library I would think they might have a copy of that yearbook -- just might be some nice comments to read about Sam....from other students....

 

[newone]

just fyi.....the Patrick Maloney London Free Press Article of 1999 indicated that the letters were ''threatening'' which is probably why we haven't heard about the ''contents'' of the letters. MOO

 

[whiterhino]

This is what I had down:

Missing January 19, 1996
March 1996 -first letter found at Pillar Of Fire church w pic of Samuel
November 1996 -second letter on floral stationary recieved at Lottery home

May 1997 -remains recovered near Blackfriars Bridge
November 2003 -mandible recovered from bank of Thames near Napier
April 2008 -skull recovered near Guy Lombardo Bridge

However here is the info from one Free Press article:

February 1996 -first of 2 anon. letters surfaces

6 months later, second note

May 1997 an arm bone is recovered, police recover a number of more bones & case is declared suspicious (no kidding?!)

April 2008 skull recovered from Greenway Park. Police launch homicide investigation.

Please correct me if I am missing something. The info doesn't seem to match?

No, newone I have never been to a school reunion. I didn't graduate from Beal. I don't think I could just walk into their library & do that?

 

[newone]

there was a note ((unsigned)) indicating "they killed him and look in the river'' with the first letter that arrived three weeks after his disappearance (Feb) and was left at the Church with the first 'threatening' letter

2nd letter came in November to the Lottery home

per Patrick Maloney London Free Press (1999)

 

[newone]

This is what I had down:

Missing January 19, 1996
March 1996 -first letter found at Pillar Of Fire church w pic of Samuel
November 1996 -second letter on floral stationary recieved at Lottery home

May 1997 -remains recovered near Blackfriars Bridge
November 2003 -mandible recovered from bank of Thames near Napier
April 2008 -skull recovered near Guy Lombardo Bridge

However here is the info from one Free Press article:

February 1996 -first of 2 anon. letters surfaces

6 months later, second note

May 1997 an arm bone is recovered, police recover a number of more bones & case is declared suspicious (no kidding?!)

April 2008 skull recovered from Greenway Park. Police launch homicide investigation.

Please correct me if I am missing something. The info doesn't seem to match?

No, newone I have never been to a school reunion. I didn't graduate from Beal. I don't think I could just walk into their library & do that?

If Oxford ((thinking either Gunn Av or Western University location)) those are all upstream from where the lower jaw was first found and then the skull further south.....with spring floods etc remains could be dislodged and redistributed throughout the river.

I would be inclined to check in at the office and ask if I could use the library to check yearbook ((indicating also that you are in fact a former student - which is the truth)) wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

 

[newone]

A yearbook might give us a clue whether or not Sam was aspiring to attend university -- given the closeness of UWO I would wonder if he had a reason to go to the campus given it may or not have been his graduating year. ((just a thought))....

 

[whiterhino]

there was a note ((unsigned)) indicating "they killed him and look in the river'' with the first letter that arrived three weeks after his disappearance (Feb) and was left at the Church with the first 'threatening' letter

2nd letter came in November to the Lottery home

per Patrick Maloney London Free Press (1999)

It's the discrepancy between February & March. Also the difference between Greenway Park / Guy Lombardo bridge. To get technical, as you follow the bike path along Greenway Park, once you cross Guy Lombardo bridge, you're sort of leaving Greenway & entering Springbank park or in between parks. Not that it makes a difference, I just don't understand why one says the park & the other says the bridge.

The timeline I posted is from the London Police Department website. It doesn't really conflict with the article but is not exactly the same so idk. I wonder what the threats in the letter were about? You would think that if someone was threatening the Lottery family/Samuels' parents, wouldn't LE have looked into it?

 

[whiterhino]

A yearbook might give us a clue whether or not Sam was aspiring to attend university -- given the closeness of UWO I would wonder if he had a reason to go to the campus given it may or not have been his graduating year. ((just a thought))....

Along the same vein, the CSI ep made me think someone might have signed one of Samuels yearbooks from the year before? Also, this is back when people still wrote notes in class & passed them around.

Tbh even just walking around the Thames makes me nervous let alone going into the Beal archives. Esp since women have gone missing from parks & along Oxford street (the other missing woman is Vanessa Fotheringham, last seen around Oxford Street E & Quebec St), I'm not too keen on wandering around & sleuthing an old murder!

 

[whiterhino]

If Oxford ((thinking either Gunn Av or Western University location)) those are all upstream from where the lower jaw was first found and then the skull further south.....with spring floods etc remains could be dislodged and redistributed throughout the river.

Yes, that is correct. I think the distance can be attributed to the passing of time. I'm sure when they examined the remains they could have determined that there was no dismemberment involved however the fact that all remains were found near bridges would make it appear that dismemberment was a possibility (thinking if you were on the bridge discarding something). I don't know if that info would have been disclosed & it really makes no difference. Except to say that in the case of dismemberment there would be more than one crime scene & a lot more evidence to hide or destroy.

 

[newone]

Along the same vein, the CSI ep made me think someone might have signed one of Samuels yearbooks from the year before? Also, this is back when people still wrote notes in class & passed them around.

Tbh even just walking around the Thames makes me nervous let alone going into the Beal archives. Esp since women have gone missing from parks & along Oxford street (the other missing woman is Vanessa Fotheringham, last seen around Oxford Street E & Quebec St), I'm not too keen on wandering around & sleuthing an old murder!

Staying safe is job 1......there has been a lot of violence in London lately -- --

We just know nothing of the victim in this sad case....his movements at school on the Thursday for example and his friends would tell us a lot.

The yearbook might reveal something as you point out - pretty sure that his family might have that ((from previous year)) but I have wondered more about the one that poor Sam never received....for details about what his dreams and goals were.

The handwriting of the notes compared to the yearbook would be really good start but it would be hard to find. ((Maybe LE has already done that - we hope))

That Church was pretty tiny - I wonder if the congregation took turns cleaning the building - it would be interesting if Sam was involved with that and it was a ''security issue'' that caused his death....or an accident that someone wanted to cover up. ((guessing wildly))

 

[newone]

Yes, that is correct. I think the distance can be attributed to the passing of time. I'm sure when they examined the remains they could have determined that there was no dismemberment involved however the fact that all remains were found near bridges would make it appear that dismemberment was a possibility (thinking if you were on the bridge discarding something). I don't know if that info would have been disclosed & it really makes no difference. Except to say that in the case of dismemberment there would be more than one crime scene & a lot more evidence to hide or destroy.

Wouldn't spring flooding create some good currents that could 'dismember' while a body was perhaps 'hung up' on debris or bridge footings?

 

[whiterhino]

If you search "Fire Baptized Holiness Church Of God Of Canada" you find what we've been calling Pillar Of Fire. It seems a bit of a dead end but maybe I didn't search properly?

Dotr posted a link on I believe the second page regarding the history of the Pillar Of Fire International but idk if they are all related or were founded by the same people? The wikipedia article makes it sound as though at one point the church had some issues with racism & possibly the KKK?! So there's that.

You'd think that if Samuel had been wrapped in something & put into the river "whole" & fully clothed, that something would have to appear eventually? Would nobody see that?

Like what if you find a shoe while walking your dog? Or someone fishing sees a pair of pants? I've seen shopping carts, bicycles, random clothing, old wrappers etc & don't think twice. Who calls the police when they find random stuff like that? Would the police take it seriously? Have all of Samuels remains been found?

 

[whiterhino]

Wouldn't spring flooding create some good currents that could 'dismember' while a body was perhaps 'hung up' on debris or bridge footings?

As much as I don't want to imagine that, I'd say it's possible. Makes me wonder what kind of trail might have been left behind that was never discovered. If it was that mild, it would also be muddy. Meaning footprints, marks in the earth, tire tracks, someone with muddy shoes & pants that need to be cleaned & possibly explained. If it was a peer, surely they would go home & someone would see that? Unless it was someone older who maybe lived alone & didn't have to hide or account for anything?

 

[newone]

I did find this......((in the google street view there is no sign on the property indicating it is a Church))

Fire Baptized Holiness Church Of God Of Canada

27 Gunn St, London, ON N6G 1C4

519-433-4400

from 411.ca


http://www.fbhchurch.org/theatonement.html

This link lists address as 22 Gunn.

http://www.bridgetofaith.org/church...Ontario&City=London&ChurchName=Pillar of Fire

This is what I've been saying!!!!! I mean, what are the odds... seriously? How far could Samuels remains have shifted in relation to weather conditions & proximity to the church & other clear and easily accessible paths to the riverbank?

This is why I felt the need to explain posting via my phone. I cannot provide links without having difficulty & frustration so I have notes & maps saved but can't contribute much to this thread yet. And no wonder I never found anything about Pillar Of Fire or 27 Gunn St! I even checked the phonebook & yes, it would have been tiny. Meaning small congregation, few staff, small pool of people etc

the name of the church seems to have ''rebranded'' at least once or twice since his death....and thanks to dotr - even a discrepancy in the address - none of the buildings I have seen on that street resemble a church ((thinking signage)) to me .

If you search "Fire Baptized Holiness Church Of God Of Canada" you find what we've been calling Pillar Of Fire. It seems a bit of a dead end but maybe I didn't search properly?

Dotr posted a link on I believe the second page regarding the history of the Pillar Of Fire International but idk if they are all related or were founded by the same people? The wikipedia article makes it sound as though at one point the church had some issues with racism & possibly the KKK?! So there's that.

You'd think that if Samuel had been wrapped in something & put into the river "whole" & fully clothed, that something would have to appear eventually? Would nobody see that?

Like what if you find a shoe while walking your dog? Or someone fishing sees a pair of pants? I've seen shopping carts, bicycles, random clothing, old wrappers etc & don't think twice. Who calls the police when they find random stuff like that? Would the police take it seriously? Have all of Samuels remains been found?

I've cited all of our quotes regarding the 'confusion' of the Church - it was on the Police website as Pillar of Fire so we all took that at face value.
It has a lot of US connections from what I gathered by clicking on the link for the website. There may have been an ''issue'' ((an old crabby pants or person who didn't like him)) who held a grudge and I guess we won't know unless we attend a service :scared:

I think you are referring to this Pillar of Fire International -- ((with their empathy for white supremacy))https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_Fire_International

One would hope this wasn't the case for the congregation where the Lottery family worshipped but I really hope that was investigated

It's difficult to find any one possibility when we don't have an accounting of his last known whereabouts, associates/friends, activities etc.
We don't even know how long he lived in the community or if he had siblings that he either hung out with or was responsible for if both parents worked.
Frustrating.

 

[whiterhino]

I've cited all of our quotes regarding the 'confusion' of the Church - it was on the Police website as Pillar of Fire so we all took that at face value.
It has a lot of US connections from what I gathered by clicking on the link for the website. There may have been an ''issue'' ((old crabby pants)) who held a grudge and I guess we won't know unless we attend a service :scared:

I think you are referring to this Pillar of Fire International -- ((with their empathy for white supremacy))https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_Fire_International

One would hope this wasn't the case for the congregation where the Lottery family worshipped but I really hope that was investigated

It's difficult to find any one possibility when we don't have an accounting of his last known whereabouts, associates/friends, activities etc.
We don't even know how long he lived in the community or if he had siblings that he either hung out with or was responsible for if both parents worked.
Frustrating.

Well I feel really dumb for not seeing that in dotrs' post before. Clearly I am not a detective lol

So, I checked a phonebook from 2014 & it has Fire Baptized Holiness Church listed at 153 Wellington. But when you search that address the name of the church is Wellington United. Neither are listed in the yellow pages. Only Fire Baptized in in the white pages under businesses.

I will walk along the river & snoop around the old church but I draw the line at attending their services lol!

 

[newone]

Well I feel really dumb for not seeing that in dotrs' post before. Clearly I am not a detective lol

So, I checked a phonebook from 2014 & it has Fire Baptized Holiness Church listed at 153 Wellington. But when you search that address the name of the church is Wellington United. Neither are listed in the yellow pages. Only Fire Baptized in in the white pages under businesses.

I will walk along the river & snoop around the old church but I draw the line at attending their services lol!

the Church connection is kind of ''eerie'' though....if the Church is no longer active or moved or changed denomination...was the problem before the death of Sam or ..... did the congregation ''fall apart'' after Sam's death?? Is there a ''connection''.....suddenly poof...was it same leadership or was there a sudden retirement? Did supporters suddenly leave? so many questions.

no beating yourself up either ok?? we are all here to help! so easy to miss some details and it's great when we can all work together to solve the riddles LOL -- like a jigsaw puzzle sometimes isn't it?

oh dear.....could it be that there was a political difference or dissension in the congregation? Many churches have to ''vote'' on keeping a minister or firing one...or hiring one...just another WAG on my part but had to throw that in -- just in case this is the burr under the saddle. MOO

 

[whiterhino]

the Church connection is kind of ''eerie'' though....if the Church is no longer active or moved or changed denomination...was the problem before the death of Sam or ..... did the congregation ''fall apart'' after Sam's death?? Is there a ''connection''.....suddenly poof...was it same leadership or was there a sudden retirement? Did supporters suddenly leave? so many questions.

no beating yourself up either ok?? we are all here to help! so easy to miss some details and it's great when we can all work together to solve the riddles LOL -- like a jigsaw puzzle sometimes isn't it?

I appreciate the help very much! Ugh I knew I messed up the address too. It's 156 Wellington not 153.

I was just looking into the church & it seems like at one point Pillar Of Fire/Fire Baptized merged with Wellington United. Then somehow "Rowntree Memorial" got involved but then they ran out of money or something & they too merged with Wellington? One site said "After a year of tumultuous real estate dealings, the church property was sold on May 10, 2012". On the site associated w Rowntree it just says they "joined with Wellington United in 2012".

Sounds like some serious drama imo.