Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

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  • #1,121
EFHARISTO Patric! You were the BEST :) In my opinion you would make an excellent crime reporter - if you get bored with your current job that is :)

Thank you, my friend.

I didn't have time to translate this video below for you all, and another translator did the translation.

But I wanted to highlight this part for you Dotta, because you will appreciate the nuance:


Can sb translate it please? From 6.00 Apparently one of police officers asks important questions THANKS :)

26:15 AK: "I want to believe (that the investigation) will lead to a (successful) result and maybe then we will (all) be amazed* . . . this I want to believe"

*be amazed: literally "rub our eyes" (because we won't believe our eyes)
 
  • #1,122
You mean that you wouldn't lie to the police, hide a body under a deck, or destroy evidence? ;);)
I would probably be shocked and so traumatized I couldn't get out of bed. At least for awhile.

I do feel bad for both sides of the family, but especially Caroline's parents because they have lost their beloved daughter.
 
  • #1,123
How can we believe anything he says now?? Everything he does is now suspect and digging for sympathy. Even the age gap I used to consider generously given Caroline's parents large age gap I now see as power unbalanced and manipulative. The neighbour didn't hear shouting. That night and I haven't seen it reported (not to say it wasn't....to the police, but in press however...) they were ever heard to argue. Domestic abuse or snap killings rarely happen without pre occurring signs in hindsight.

I don't think she was shouting at him, I think he caught her unawares.
 
  • #1,124
  • #1,125
From day one, many people close to her, teachers, ex-classmates, even reporters, and random strangers, kept talking about her "perfect relationship", her "dream life", her "great husband", how she, at age 20, had experienced "things that others envy at age 40". Many people were quick to defend B, because he was "a Greek, a handsome, educated man, and he couldn't have possibly done this". They appeared happy on social media, they appeared to be living that luxurious, happy life, so there couldn't be a problem in their relationship. I kept reading everywhere "No way", "She would have told someone", "Such things (spousal homicides) happen only in the US, not here in Greece.". No one dared to say the obvious, that a 28 year old having a relationship with a 15 year old was wrong, from the very beginning. Even myself, it did struck me as odd at first, but I didn't give it too much thought. Don't let me start on the "therapist" and her whole involvement. Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to shift the blame here, he was the one responsible, and I wish more than anything that he pays for this for the rest of his life. But I believe that, if there was a different mindset here, there is even a 0.01% chance that she would have been saved.
That's no fault of theirs, though. Nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors. They apparently thought they had the perfect marriage and that is what they observed. We have no evidence that there were any warning signs.

Caroline was of the age of consent when they met, so there was nothing illegal about their relationship. Either way, there was probably nothing anyone could do to stop them from getting married. The only person at fault here is the person who killed Caroline and that is her husband. Imo
 
  • #1,126
From day one, many people close to her, teachers, ex-classmates, even reporters, and random strangers, kept talking about her "perfect relationship", her "dream life", her "great husband", how she, at age 20, had experienced "things that others envy at age 40". Many people were quick to defend B, because he was "a Greek, a handsome, educated man, and he couldn't have possibly done this". They appeared happy on social media, they appeared to be living that luxurious, happy life, so there couldn't be a problem in their relationship. I kept reading everywhere "No way", "She would have told someone", "Such things (spousal homicides) happen only in the US, not here in Greece.". No one dared to say the obvious, that a 28 year old having a relationship with a 15 year old was wrong, from the very beginning. Even myself, it did struck me as odd at first, but I didn't give it too much thought. Don't let me start on the "therapist" and her whole involvement. Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to shift the blame here, he was the one responsible, and I wish more than anything that he pays for this for the rest of his life. But I believe that, if there was a different mindset here, there is even a 0.01% chance that she would have been saved.

agreed.

Older men don’t fall for young girls because they’re “mature for their age” or whatever BS they say: it’s always because they’re easier to control and manipulate. Imagine being nearly 30 and having a single thing in common with a 15 year old girl!

Statistically, the single most dangerous time for a woman experiencing domestic abuse of any kind is during pregnancy and when the baby is young. It’s why, in the UK at least, expectant mothers are now asked privately if they are experiencing any abuse at every appointment. It’s common and preventable enough that such a thing has become a routine policy.

Sometimes contact phone numbers are given in the form of a barcode sticker, so they can be safely placed somewhere like on a book or magazine should the woman need it. Because if the man finds their partner has any plans to leave, the woman is at drastically increased risk of murder - as it seems may have been the case here, with Caroline searching for hotels.

It’s a hidden world that most men and any woman in a healthy relationship will have little idea about, but trained professionals know how to identify those at risk, are constantly on the look out and should be positioned to help.

Her having PND, and her apparently attending therapy *with* her husband should also have increased the red flags.
If the therapist also had information regarding the husband and eg, substance abuse or addiction, more red flags. Enough to make some pretty red bunting, I suspect.

Obviously none of these things on their own, or even combined conclusively point to domestic abuse, and I’m not suggesting any of them are morally wrong or suspicious alone. But DV and DA does generally follow a recognisable pattern, and had somebody been joining up all the puzzle pieces in Caroline’s case, they might have been able to help her leave safely.

None of this makes it anyone’s “fault” except the killer’s, of course. But just as when a child is killed by family we review the agencies and professionals involved, it’s important to reflect on what happened in cases like this so we can look for opportunities to intervene sooner in other similar cases in future.

[For anyone reading this who might be in a similar situation: there are lots of agencies and support out there who can help you make a safe exit plan. Trying to leave is a notoriously dangerous time for women in abusive relationships.
Also, if a man ever chokes or puts his hands around your neck, statistically he is now significantly more likely to murder you at the next escalation. Get out. Stay safe.]
 
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  • #1,127
How can we believe anything he says now?? Everything he does is now suspect and digging for sympathy. Even the age gap I used to consider generously given Caroline's parents large age gap I now see as power unbalanced and manipulative. The neighbour didn't hear shouting. That night and I haven't seen it reported (not to say it wasn't....to the police, but in press however...) they were ever heard to argue. Domestic abuse or snap killings rarely happen without pre occurring signs in hindsight.

I don't think she was shouting at him, I think he caught her unawares.
That's exactly how I feel. He gets now to try to mitigate his actions so that he can plead for forgiveness and a reduced sentence but he waited until he was cornered and knew he'd lost, and it could just as well have been a long and cold premeditation. No defensive injuries makes me think she was sleeping. How do you have your hand over someone's mouth and then change to using a blouse to cover their mouth and nose? I'm not sure we know for definite that the memory cards were removed before or after, so that's not part of my thinking yet.
 
  • #1,128
How can we believe anything he says now?? Everything he does is now suspect and digging for sympathy. Even the age gap I used to consider generously given Caroline's parents large age gap I now see as power unbalanced and manipulative. The neighbour didn't hear shouting. That night and I haven't seen it reported (not to say it wasn't....to the police, but in press however...) they were ever heard to argue. Domestic abuse or snap killings rarely happen without pre occurring signs in hindsight.

I don't think she was shouting at him, I think he caught her unawares.

There’s definitely a sense of Chris Watts about this case, somehow…
 
  • #1,129
It's amazing really. Time of death could hardly be more accurate - to be wearing a Fitbit. Crime scene nectar from the gods. How unbearable for her parents.
 
  • #1,130
Don't remind me!
I almost fell for that.
I didn't because he was plainly aware of the media camped outside and he glanced across at them after and then made it look as if he was just pausing to think and ran his hand through his hair, before he went back inside. Always the furtive glances to monitor if he was being believed.
 
  • #1,131
It is absolutely horrifying that a man can do this to the Mother of his child. I know there are many cases where this has happened here but it doesn’t make it any less deeply disturbing. I can’t believe he went to his wife Caroline’s funeral and memorial service and held his baby daughter there knowing he was the one responsible. How could he sit there beside Caroline’s parents and loved ones playing the grieving widower when he is the one who is causing their suffering?

I feel really foolish for believing his story and that he had no involvement. You don’t want to believe a Father is capable of doing something so evil. I feel so sorry for Caroline’s little girl it is absolutely horrendous that her Mum has been murdered by her Father and she was there at the time. What he has done is going to have a devastating impact on his daughter’s life. But I hope Caroline’s family are able to raise her little girl to be as happy as is possible despite the devastating tragedy they have all suffered and she grows up making her Mum proud. I can’t begin to imagine how her parents, loved ones and friends must be feeling my heart breaks for all of them.

I’m really glad the Greek police thoroughly investigated what he claimed allegedly happened and that they determined it was not possible based on the evidence they had. I feared his story was true and they would not find the armed gang responsible because they were on the run in Europe or further away. I hope he is charged with all the crimes possible including the murder of the poor family dog and that he will be in prison for the rest of his life. Hopefully he will never have any contact with his daughter ever again.

May Caroline Crouch Rest In Peace.
 
  • #1,132
I'm waiting to hear him say why he killed the dog.

Was it there when he was murdering his wife and tried to protect her.
 
  • #1,133
That's exactly how I feel. He gets now to try to mitigate his actions so that he can plead for forgiveness and a reduced sentence but he waited until he was cornered and knew he'd lost, and it could just as well have been a long and cold premeditation. No defensive injuries makes me think she was sleeping. How do you have your hand over someone's mouth and then change to using a blouse to cover their mouth and nose? I'm not sure we know for definite that the memory cards were removed before or after, so that's not part of my thinking yet.
His account sounds inconsistent with LE's repeated statements that there was no (foreign) DNA on her nails. If they had had his DNA on her nails, I think they would've arrested him much earlier.
So no DNA on her nails suggests no struggle to me, which still suggests she might have been attacked while asleep.
 
  • #1,134
From what I remember of the neighbours' statement they heard the dog about 04:30. From the reports above about the evidence from the Fitbit and Caroline's death being "about an hour before" the husband first reported (04:30-5:30 ish).... sounds like maybe the dog was killed around then or after?
 
  • #1,135
The fake psychologist should have asked Caroline to come without her husband.
 
  • #1,136
She was taken unawares. Though I imagine she woke up struggling in vain to take a breath.

It must have been terrifying.

She wasn't able to leave her mark on him. What a man :rolleyes:
 
  • #1,137
Part of the final bits of the plan to look like a gang of robbers and killers did it.

From what I remember of the neighbours' statement they heard the dog about 04:30. From the reports above about the evidence from the Fitbit and Caroline's death being "about an hour before" the husband first reported (04:30-5:30 ish).... sounds like maybe the dog was killed around then or after?
 
  • #1,138

2:00 "I suffocated her with the pillow" according to B's confession

I'm posting this clip mostly for the purpose of confirming previous MSM reports that she was suffocated with the pillow.

There are more details here regarding his confession, and I haven't watched the entire video yet.

I'm skeptical of certain other details in his confession because he appears to be a pathological liar. So I'd like some confirmation from LE before accepting his (latest) version of events.
 
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  • #1,139
He's confessed! The piece of s@!$

I thought she may have wanted to leave him. The wording on that Insta 'tribute' just said it all to me, and I said as much on here. "Together forever. Have a nice trip my love." You'll never get away from me was the unwritten message in my mind, and a cynical retort (even though it was explained by another member that term is often used in Greek; to me it smacked of insincerity).
 
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  • #1,140
I'm waiting to hear him say why he killed the dog.

Was it there when he was murdering his wife and tried to protect her.
I think it was an attempt to divert police away from him. He was after the shock factor. Heartless and cruel beyond measure. I don't think it was anger, I think every step of this was hours of methodical staging, for him no more than removing the window. He was not even traumatised by his own acts afterwards, so controlled. MOO
 
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