Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[seattlechiquita]

From this link "Greek police also tonight said they were “close” to discovering and arresting the Bulgarian couple who sold Maria to the foster couple.

They said they were working “in co-operation with Bulgarian police”."

Investment. Ugh.

I hope they get them as well. Truly.

 

[Linda7NJ]

From this link "Greek police also tonight said they were “close” to discovering and arresting the Bulgarian couple who sold Maria to the foster couple.

They said they were working “in co-operation with Bulgarian police”."

Investment. Ugh.

Sounds like CYA to me.

It's looking like a couple gave them their child. So the spin is on to paint it in the worst possible light playing on peoples existing fears & prejudices


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[dotr]

Wow, " How do you handle a problem like Maria?"

"The youngster is thought to have been bought young, with the intention of making big money by selling her into a forced marriage at the age of just 12.

Police are investigating whether Maria, believed to be aged five or six, was being prepared for sale to a wealthy gypsy leader.

Marriage at the age of 12 is common practice in many traditional Roma communities, with the bride’s family getting a pay-out from the new in-laws.

Because Maria was seen as a “white-skinned beauty” within the gypsy camp, she would be considered a “prize investment”.

A police source said: “The money a family gets in the case of marriage is negotiable at a high level, especially with a prize catch like Maria.

“This could be like a business deal which would give them a profit at the end of it when they sell to the highest bidder.”

It could explain why a family with 13 other registered children - and raking in more than £2,000 in benefits a month - kept another mouth to feed for more than four years."

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mystery-girl-maria-been-bought-2485445#ixzz2iajo1WIH
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
Link from Linda 7 NJ.

bbm.

 

[gxm]

IMO pedophiles have zero problems finding & accessing children. Just because someone goes through the legal adoption process, guardianship, or fostercare is no guarantee the child will be safe from physical, sexual or emotional abuse, neglect or death. Being a biological child also offers no such protection guarantee. It's a completely false sense of security if people are actually believing it makes a difference.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

A child living off the grid like M**** is a much easier mark.

 

[mrsward]

Why do we keep reverting back to cultures..

I dont care if were dealing with little green men who happen to know E.T..

Who is maria and where did she come from

So ive seen crime programmes that forensics obtain mud and folaige and pinpoint where it came from...

Can this be done with a child ? Is it humanly possible ?

 

[Harmony 2]

:modstop:

I mentioned this earlier and I guess some of you missed it.

Please discuss this CASE and not cultures. If you want to talk about the politics or cultures, etc, open a thread in the private forum.

This thread is about trying to identify a little girl.

Please adhere to the guidelines posted above... thanks!

 

[fruity]

So they admit it's child trafficking?

They admit buying her but say it was adoption in a “non-legal way”.

From the Mirror, so not exactly a reliable source.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/roma-couple-planned-sell-blonde-2485966

One line of investigation however, is that the girl was destined for illegal adoption just days after being born but ended up being sold cheap or even given to the Roma family because the criminal network was targeted by police.
Instead of securing the up to 20,000 euros (£17,000) that childless couples reportedly pay to illegally adopt a baby, neighbours of the accused pair claim that they paid as little as 1,000 euros.
<modsnip>


*snip*

Police have spent the last few days searching for the so-called Bulgarian middle man in the Frasala area 200 miles north of Athens after being passed his name and mobile telephone number by the accused couple.

There's a lot more information at the link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...r-child-traffickers-planned-to-sell-girl.html

 

[fruity]

While I was searching for news articles with police quotes about Maria, I came across this horrifying story.

http://www.news.com.au/world/child-sold-for-organ-harvesting/story-fndir2ev-1226743335651

 

[gxm]

So they admit it's child trafficking?

From the Mirror, so not exactly a reliable source.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/roma-couple-planned-sell-blonde-2485966



There's a lot more information at the link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...r-child-traffickers-planned-to-sell-girl.html

From your link:
Smile of The Child, the charity put in charge of Maria’s welfare have said she will formally be put up for adoption in six months if her biological parents cannot be found.

Good to know.

 

[pieper4]

Rudimentary ROI (return on investment) here. Say Mom and Dad Roma paid $700 for Maria ~6 years ago. They didn't pay for food or shelter for her (Greek govt did), and probably had hand-me-downs from other kids or friends for clothing or minimal clothing expenses. Perhaps even free medical care. If reports are even vaguely accurate (22K pounds for marriage), they stood to net over $35K after their initial investment. Of course, this wouldn't include any income derived from her during her years with the 'parents'... Oh but wait. All the fru-fru in her bedroom. Scratch the net. Maybe $34,990 net. (ouch)

Disturbing.

 

[whovillebaby]

Not excusing what they have done or the reason the house was raided in the first place at all, they love her because she has been part of their family and she is valuable. Kind of a double edge sword vibe....they grew to care for her and received, without question, benefits.
I would think the LE in Greece is also looking for all KNOWN prostitute types as a possible mother...women they may have in custody or women that fit the profile that have been around Greece for awhile. Then there is also the possibility of a female in hiding, and it is she that has the answers, and those keeping her.

 

[not_my_kids]

I've been wracking my brain, and I can't come up with any possibilities that haven't been mentioned.

Either Maria was given to them, bought by them, found by them as an orphan or abducted by them. There really aren't any other options, since we know that she wasn't born to them. I do know that if a Roma woman were going to abandon her child, she would be likely to do it within the Roma community. They are very distrustful and pretty secular.

Two things that I really do believe the Roma wouldn't do, is steal children (at least on an organized level) or sell their children. I am not talking about accepting a dowry when they are married off, that, to me, is simply a cultural difference, and I'm not going there. Selling a child, for the majority of traditional Roma families, is the equivalent of selling a house for one month's rent, instead of charging the rent over and over again. (This, I see as a side effect of the abject poverty most communities live in. They love their children, but they see the financial opportunity in everything. For girls, stealing or begging and then finding a husband are rites of passage, and while most girls do stay out of prostitution, because they are more valuable at the time they are married, but if they don't find a husband, or if they do and are poor enough, prostitution is all that's left. So, yes, children are valuable, well into their thirties, because in Roma communities, a family is not two or three generations consisting of 10 people, some families are three generations (or even four) and that one family may number as high as fifty. All living together or within very close range. They may be travelers, but they travel together. So, if anyone in the family is bringing in money, it benefits the whole family.

This also explains where the money goes. Imagine this. You, your parents, grandparents, three aunts, four uncles, seven children, 8 siblings, 17 cousins, husband, and 14 members of his family, are all dependent on one communal income. But not everyone contributes. Some of the family are too old to work. Some may be injured, or too young. Some may drink every penny they do make, plus more. It is the unwillingness to split into smaller family groups that often drags them all down.

That said, Roma families do not trust the police, or outsiders. Especially police. While they do steal, and they do prostitute themselves, these are both things that have been handed down through generations. The stealing and begging is taught even before the fear of the police, and these are both crimes that are right now, committed in the moment, and then they can run. They are not involved crimes like kidnapping, which require planning, and carry a serious risk of bringing a lot of unwanted attention for outsiders.

That said, I do believe that someone gave her to them, or they bought her, but it would have had to have been a significant amount of money that they paid. I don't believe they simply found her wandering. I also don't think that her parents will ever come forward. But if they work backwards, and find out where this family was, every step of the way, and find and talk to every single person that had contact at with them, they may be able to figure out where she did come from and exactly when. Children do not just appear. Even among Roma, there would be questions asked. Especially by those that truly fear police and outsiders, instead of just being very distrustful of them. Kidnapping is not the norm for their society, someone would have noticed.

 

[whovillebaby]

While I was searching for news articles with police quotes about Maria, I came across this horrifying story.

http://www.news.com.au/world/child-sold-for-organ-harvesting/story-fndir2ev-1226743335651

Money, money, money! There are cruel people in this world many of them, that would ruin this child's good health for profit money! Her organs!!! Protect and look out for the underclass, which includes seniors and children these days. There are so many good people on this board that have access to good education and have come here out of interest for the subject at hand. I do think our opinions help, any speaking out for those that can't is admirable.

I am speaking for the child not the parents or community.

 

[txsvicki]

How many wealthy Roma have blonde wives or daughter in laws? The theory of getting a large marriage price makes perfect sense if they really want a blonde wife. I think they should keep an eye on grown women. That gal that Maria was dancing with is the grand daughter of the leader, and very fair complected. If some were taken in as babies they probably would not leave their family now though.

 

[branwynbreeze]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/greece-girl-maria-gypsy-couple-2477760

Babis Dimitriou, president of the Gypsies of Northern Greece, said yesterday Maria’s natural parents offered him the child for 1,000 euros when she was 15 days old in 2009. -Quote from link

If she is actually older than 4 one would think they'd realize the difference between a toddler and 15 day old baby. Just sayin'

 

[pieper4]

^^^ This is why I asked earlier on if they typically pooled their incomes for the good of the clan/encampment, paid dues, tithes, protection money, or otherwise had familial/clan financial obligations.
I really don't see the point in locating the birth family, aside from making sure the child wasn't abducted. It seems pretty likely they didn't want her as an infant and may not want/be able to take her in now. Which begs the question: is it better to place her with a 'foreign' family (non-Roma) or keep her with those whose culture she's accustomed to.

 

[concernedmother]

From this link "Greek police also tonight said they were “close” to discovering and arresting the Bulgarian couple who sold Maria to the foster couple.

They said they were working “in co-operation with Bulgarian police”."

Investment. Ugh.

Hopefully they can find these people and shake the truth out of them where they got her.

 

[whovillebaby]

Babis Dimitriou, president of the Gypsies of Northern Greece, said yesterday Maria’s natural parents offered him the child for 1,000 euros when she was 15 days old in 2009. -Quote from link

If she is actually older than 4 one would think they'd realize the difference between a toddler and 15 day old baby. Just sayin'

Exactly what is being dealt with...they don't know...The Roma they will keep making up stories until they can't anymore. Somehow they acquired her and they know she is valuable.....if they could keep her under the radar....but she peaked out from under the covers....now they start checking every Roma community.

 

[Brightbird]

Is that the law in Greece? That one can just hand off a child to whoever they want? No custody/adoption hearings or paperwork? I seriously doubt it. It's certainly not the case here in the U.S.

That's debatable. I was surprised to read this article on the practice of "re-homing" adopted kids in America. It makes for a disturbing read.

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1

Giving away a child in America can be surprisingly easy. Legal adoptions must be handled through the courts, and prospective parents must be vetted. But there are ways around such oversight. Children can be sent to new families quickly through a basic "power of attorney" document – a notarized statement declaring the child to be in the care of another adult.

By obtaining a power of attorney, the new guardians are able to enroll a child in school or secure government benefits – actions that can effectively mask changes of custody that take place illegally outside the purview of child welfare authorities.

There is one potential safeguard: an agreement among the 50 U.S. states, the District of Columbia and the U.S. Virgin Islands called the Interstate Compact on the Placement of Children, or ICPC. The agreement requires that if a child is to be transferred outside of the family to a new home in a different state, parents notify authorities in both states. That way, prospective parents can be vetted.

The compact has been adopted by every state and is codified in various statutes that give it the force of law. Even so, these laws are seldom enforced, in part because the compact remains largely unknown to law enforcement authorities. Each state is also left to decide how to punish those who give or take children in violations of the compact's provisions. Some states attach criminal sanctions – generally, misdemeanors. Other states aren't explicit about how violations should be handled.

A child might be removed from the new home if an illegal re-homing is discovered. But seldom is either set of parents punished. No state, federal or international laws even acknowledge the existence of re-homing.

 

[whovillebaby]

Exactly what is being dealt with...they don't know...The Roma they will keep making up stories until they can't anymore. Somehow they acquired her and they know she is valuable.....if they could keep her under the radar....but she peaked out from under the covers....now they start checking every Roma community.

Most likely Human trafficking. A HUGE problem worldwide!!!!