OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #71

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  • #1,001
I missed this..unless this is answered down thread...to whom did AW tell in Montana about shoes she bought in Ohio and why was she asked that?? At that point they would have to know they were suspects so why come back to Ohio?? TIA

Who mentiioned that she could have returned them and gotten her money back?? If so there would be a return transaction on those shoes
At the Montana border with canada, Border patrol seperated the 4 wagners and then they were surprised and caught off guard when agents from Ohio's BCI walked in the room. Done for affect. Then they interviewed them seperately, and when each of them was asked about the shoes they gave conflicting answers. In reality, Jake and George wore the shoes the night of the murders and then they were burned the next morning. One of the conflicting answers that was given was they did not like them so the new shoes were thrown out. Not only does that conflict with the other answers but on its own does not make sense. Why not just take them back with the receipt. :)
 
  • #1,002
I missed this..unless this is answered down thread...to whom did AW tell in Montana about shoes she bought in Ohio and why was she asked that?? At that point they would have to know they were suspects so why come back to Ohio?? TIA

Who mentiioned that she could have returned them and gotten her money back?? If so there would be a return transaction on those shoes

She told it to BCI agents who intercepted the family at the Canadian border, IIRC, as they were going to AK.

They asked about the shoes because, by the time of the interview, they had found the receipt for them in the Wagner's belongings back in Ohio. They were already looking for a connection to the shoe prints they found at the crime scenes. They had gotten Walmart security video and found AW going to Walmart to buy the shoes. The shoes weren't returned because Walmart checked all their records for AW activity at their stores. They can do that.

The Wagners probably came back to Ohio because they ran out of money and couldn't afford to stay there any longer.
 
  • #1,003
Good call but the photos look different. I think Scheiderer's photo was taken before the prints dried. The only spray I can think of is luminol but if you heard chemicals were applied I believe you. Thanks.

I find it interesting to see 2 different photos of the blood stains.

I think it's something newer, Betty posted it early today when she was transcribing. LVQ, LQU, L.. something, the full name is in the posts.

Edit: I'm pretty sure a photo comparison was made during testimony, before and after the chemical was applied.
 
  • #1,004
Hey Joe, I was just thinking about this.

Did he specifically say no shots were inside to inside? I might have missed that (I still need to rewatch). I heard him say there were shots from outside coming inside and I heard him say none of the shots were inside going outside ( I thought they were talking about the holes in exterior). I did not hear him say there were no inside to inside shots.

Thanks!
"Did he specifically say no shots were inside to inside?" This is my question too.
 
  • #1,005
  • #1,006
I missed this..unless this is answered down thread...to whom did AW tell in Montana about shoes she bought in Ohio and why was she asked that?? At that point they would have to know they were suspects so why come back to Ohio?? TIA

Who mentiioned that she could have returned them and gotten her money back?? If so there would be a return transaction on those shoes

Ok. BCI searched Jake's truck and found Angie's shoe receipt in a box of important papers. On the Wagner's way back from AK they were stopped in Montana near the Canadian border. The Wagner's did not know that BCI found the shoe receipt.

Angie didn't tell anyone in Montana about the shoes. When BCI found the receipt they checked every Walmart in a 50 mile radius and found photos of her buying the shoes in the Waverly Ohio Walmart.

They decided to do a surprise interview on this to, in my opinion, trap the Wagners. The Wagner's had no idea what was going on. Next thing they know they are separated and interviewed and then BCI confiscated Angie's laptop which showed all these screenshots on it where she was hacking in to victim's Facebook accounts. This is where Hanna said "they would have to kill me first." 4 months later they killed her.

They came back to Ohio because they were running out of money according to a Wagner relative from a podcast. They moved into the house that Angie inherited from her dad.

They did not want to come back, they took out fraudulent loans to try to buy property in Missouri. That fell through.

AK wouldn't save them anyway, BCI went up there tracking them down. They knew they were suspects when BCI searched their property and when DeWine put out the laser focus in the MSM.

When I was listening to the trial yesterday I heard how Angie threw the shoes away rather than simply return them. My information comes from George's Bond Hearing of which I linked above. Alot of information to cover so if I missed something just ask. I will try to answer if possible. When Angie saw Hanna say "they would have to kill me first" it was Angie who showed it to Jake.

I also learned from listing to the trial that the reason Angie was spying on Facebook messenger was to dig up dirt on Hanna and Tabitha because she wanted custody. She hacked Hannah's Facebook and George's Ex MIL's Facebook, possibly others as well.

With the shoe receipt she had ample opportunity to get her money back on the shoes. I believe she threw out the shoes because her son's wore them at the murder scenes. None of the murder kit items can be accounted for either. All missing except what they hid at FWF.

George will go down for murder I believe. He fits Ohio's definition of being involved in all 4 parts the prosecutor said and conspiracy amongst many other things. A whole list of things in my opinion.
 
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  • #1,007
Notice the photo Scheiderer holds from Bond Hearing the blood looks wet, and very red. Blood looks more brown and black when dried as shown on floor here:

View attachment 366676

Below Scheiderer holds photo of red bloody shoe prints from George's Bond Hearing.
George's Bond Hearing
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

IMO, they were before and after pics. This might provide a little more insight. The one that is darker in the image is after LCV was applied to the bloody print IMO. It was clearer to tell when shown on screen today. I sure wish more could be shown but I also understand why it isn't. IMO Judge Deering considered the families when he made his decision.

 
  • #1,008
If he stepped one foot in any Rhoden residence, that will be aggravated burglary and conspiracy.
Also Tampering with the evidence, no doubt in my mind he helped take phones and at least security cameras and guns and hid them in the pond at FWF.
 
  • #1,009
She flat out said she bought the shoes for George and Jake to wear that night. They recorded her and probably videoed her saying this on the Montana border. She said she bought shoes in the types and sizes they don't wear, probably why they didn't care about leaving footprints. But the footprints showed there was no worn tread. Shows new tread. She bought them early April 2016.

George and Jake denied that Angela showed them the shoes. Angela said she showed them the shoes but they hated them so she threw them out.

It was mentioned in court yesterday that she could have returned them and got her money back.

But BCI split the Wagner's up so they couldn't get their stupid story straight.
I am still unclear which interviews on the Montana border were held on their way up to AK (May/June 2017) and which were held on their way back to the US at the Montana border(April /May 2018).
I'd appreciate if anyone can clarify. IIRC correctly in Discovery there is a search of "Wagner Trailer" April 15, 2018.

JMO
 
  • #1,010
I don't remember hearing that there were any dogs at Dana's house. Does anyone remember if there were or not?
 
  • #1,011
I am still unclear which interviews on the Montana border were held on their way up to AK (May/June 2017) and which were held on their way back to the US at the Montana border(April /May 2018).
I'd appreciate if anyone can clarify. IIRC correctly in Discovery there is a search of "Wagner Trailer" April 15, 2018.

JMO
I remember from trial they did not go through Montana on way to AK. Well, it mentioned some other States. Maybe they ended up there. But I would have to find it. I remember it was said they were stopped on the Montana border on their way back to Ohio. Again, would have to find it.

If I can find the specific information I will post it. Getting harder finding the information. Need to take notes.

Yes I remember 2018 searches.

Notes, notes notes!
 
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  • #1,012
I'm amazed with the number of shots fired, no one heard them at FR and MS Gilleys trailer, or anywhere else as far as that goes. I wonder how effective homemade silencers are after a few rounds.

It seems to me one of Dana's neighbors complained about dogs.running.loose but it could have been derby cars. I dunno
 
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  • #1,013
I don't remember hearing that there were any dogs at Dana's house. Does anyone remember if there were or not?
We know Brownie lived with Kenny and Chris Sr. had at least 2 dogs but its been so long I don't remember if Frankie had dogs. I think LM said Dana had a dog. Hard to find articles from 6 years ago. Good question.

C-Rob said they took one of the dogs for Frankie's son, so perhaps this was Frankie's dog?
 
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  • #1,014
We know Brownie lived with Kenny and Chris Sr. had at least 2 dogs but its been so long I don't remember if Frankie had dogs. I think LM said Dana had a dog. Hard to find articles from 6 years ago. Good question.

C-Rob said they took one of the dogs for Frankie's son, so perhaps this was Frank he's dog?
It may sound silly but all of our dogs seemed to be 'off duty' when hubby was home but as soon as he left, they were on the job. I guess I wondered if Dana had a dog if it would be more alert than the other dogs were.
 
  • #1,015
It may sound silly but all of our dogs seemed to be 'off duty' when hubby was home but as soon as he left, they were on the job. I guess I wondered if Dana had a dog if it would be more alert than the other dogs were.
Found this:

Kendra Rhoden, who recently moved out of state, has Brownie. Paisley (one of Chris Sr's dogs) the boxer, is living with Brentley Rhoden, the 3-year-old son of Frankie Rhoden, and his mom, said his grandmother Samantha Robinson. She's exactly where she needs to be, she's a nice addition to the family.''

Ohio family clings to hope 3 months after 8 killed
 
  • #1,016
defense could argue that like JW and GW BW wore shoes that were different to his regular shoe choices, so he wore shoes a few sizes too small, and it was he who left impressions, if AW has said the same as JW that GW wasn't involved with planning, then state has shoe print evidence that will be challenged as to who wore them, it has JW saying GW was their but we now know his proffer proves he has lied and how AC is going to explain why she accepted his proffer when it doesn't match the evidence I don't know, and we have GW belonged to the Wagner cult, and I could not use that he was part of the Wagner cult who planned these murders if their is no evidence of his planning,

I am holding out hopes for him making admissions on the bugs LE planted in his truck or at home,
As I said I am not seeing any evidence George was there. Shoe prints real iffy. Jake has him in scene 1 Cr's home with shoe prints, then in scene 2 Frankies home with no prints, then in scene 4 Danas home with prints. Only one scene he could have stepped in blood. Scene 1, Chris's. So how is it he was in scene 2 Frankies and didn't leave any prints but yet the prints showed back up at scene 4 Dana's. Not adding up for me.

I think that the confusion is where the shooter stood while shooting. I think that was outside at the screen door which had 6 bullet holes in it. In other words the shooter fired the shots through the screen door. That trailer isn't very wide. Maybe 8-10 feet. Someone standing on the porch just outside the door could have killed both CR and GR in the living room.

Whoever dragged those bodies back to the bedroom had to step in blood on their way out of the bedroom.

Just one small thought. If Jake is to be believed, he fired the SKS hitting the door jam beside Cr's head. If Billy was standing in the door talking to CR as Jake says, that means, from the pictures of the bullet hole in the door jam we saw today, Jake missed Billy's head by a mere fraction of an inch. That struck me right off when I saw that picture of the bullet hole in the door jam and remembered AC saying that Jake fired that SKS at CR while Billy was standing in the doorway talking to CR.

Now that makes me wonder who Jake's real target was??????

Got to have more real evidence to put George at the scene. So far the state has nothing that can not be refuted by a first year law student.

JMO
 
  • #1,017
We know Brownie lived with Kenny and Chris Sr. had at least 2 dogs but its been so long I don't remember if Frankie had dogs. I think LM said Dana had a dog. Hard to find articles from 6 years ago. Good question.

C-Rob said they took one of the dogs for Frankie's son, so perhaps this was Frankie's dog?
FR had numerous dogs I believe. There were pictures of them from the news helicopters, IIRC, in the back yard area. I don't know if they were left out all night or brought inside though.

Edit: Found a picture...looks like two dog houses and a doggie igloo...maybe even a fourth near top of picture?
 

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  • #1,018
I am sure we will find out more about what position GR and CR were in when shot, they are the 2 who were moving targets,

if I was defense, I would want to know if any prints were Bobbie Jo , if she had blood on her shoes when police confiscated her shoes at station, tested to see if she left any prints, I doubt she was worried about where she trod when she went in saw the blood ran to their bedroom and then ran out, she must have been horrified, terrified and all the fieds in between, and she followed the path that the deceased were dragged so at some point she must have stepped in blood,

LE who went in to clear the house climbed on furniture, over the treadmill to get to the deceased as there was so much blood on floor, they didn't want to disturb crime scene
her male friend was right behind her going in according to both BJM and the friends testimony.

JMO
 
  • #1,019
I don't remember hearing that there were any dogs at Dana's house. Does anyone remember if there were or not?
I thought I remembered Leonard Manley saying Dana had a dog.
 
  • #1,020
Agent Hansuck

Missed start of testimony, they waited to try to get bullet from under trailer, trajectory work done later,
Item 33 shell casing found in kitchen, fired 40 caliber cartridge case
front door turn to left (photo shown to jury) treadmill there, other officers climbed through treadmill to avoid disturbing scene,
blood patterns, drag marks on floor (only in court people can see blood photos) spent cartridge case 33
lost feed
bed, trash bag, clothing, copper jacket bullet, Item, collected projectile, ballistic evidence in living room, bedroom and front porch, kitchen
no shots came from inside to outside, shots from outside to inside from front yard
only I cartridge casing found, looked extensively for others, 40 calibers so would look for a gun that could fire 40 calibers, if more shell casings from differing scenes could match them, and if more shell casings could match to gun or suspects
blood evidence, could see where person was when bloodletting happened, ballistic item 13 by chair
blood on floor saturated, blood dragged across floor, going toward kitchen swabs from blood in front of chair,
bullet still in situ in photos bullet item 13, swab x2 collected from blood on floor. Stipulation A503 photo of blood, lab results positive for blood DNA CRsr, living room by chair
blood splatter on wall, Item 19 2 swabs from wall, lots of blood on wall, direction descending down, blood on wall stipulated to be blood/DNA CRsr,
transfer or drag mark to kitchen partial footwear impressions in blood, followed blood trail into kitchen, disrupted separate pattern swirl pattern area shows a person murdered in that area, footwear impressions in photo, disruption in drag,
second pattern individual bled lots of blood, blood pool, individual turned and dragged to kitchen, 2 swabs from large blood pool item 20
my opinion rug moved could have been used to clean up, Agents opinion not mine
Stipulation Item 20 swabs DNA was GR, blood pool on floor
blood splatter on back wall of living room,
stipulation item 21 DNA from blood on wall GR
multiple splatter blood stains on ceiling, look towards curtain and cabinet look up see blood on ceiling,
22 - 2 swabs off ceiling stipulation not sent to lab
wet blood leave shoe prints better than dry, saw footprints easily, blood dry when I got there, covered prints whilst working scene, photographed and collected footprints later, luco crystal violet enhanced detail in print, has a fixative to keep the print in place, cut floor out with some footprints on to take to lab,
chair, blood, footwear impressions in blood, where some of them were found in living room, 2 prints, item 23,
item 23 footprint photograph, details I could see on shoe no wear pattern, ruler in photo for scale
photographing so other experts can look at them later, detail in heel area photographed,
showing jury floor, he cut out with footprint on
other experts learned brand and size of shoe
Item 24 shoe print transfer of blood onto footwear leaving an impression in blood it was somewhat close to where 23 shoe print was, luco crystal violet used, photo with scale of print, zoom in, try to get this printout off floor, cut into floor and removed it, showing jury piece of floor cut out with footprint on,
Item 47 shoeprint, by door, (not sure which door) luco crystal applied after photos taken, scale in photos, cut out from floor, floor shown to jury
blood drag front door through living room to kitchen, rugs in photo, that were moved, blue tote, Item 33 only cartridge casing found under kitchen table, footwear impressions here, remarkable to him blood on floor going to bedroom footwear on top of blood footwear consistent throughout scene,
35 photo of footprint in kitchen, collected footprint off linoleum,
Item 33 cartridge kitchen between backwall and table
item 33 stipulation DNA insufficient data for analysis, submitted that could have touch DNA of suspects, heat and pressure from firing weapon destroys DNA on cartridge casings no DNA on cartridge casing

all mistakes my own

court done till Monday


,
Thank you for taking the time to type out this excellent recap! Please know that it’s much appreciated!!
 
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