PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1972719574878404713

 

[Chimera]

Wouldn't a person become nearly faint after just one or two stabs such as Ellen experienced ?
No way in helll do I think this was a suicide.
Rest in peace, Ellen.
Imo.

 

[Marlowe93]

This was a big fubar. The body had been moved. No reports on evidence taken in by police. It has been proven that you can lock that specific lock from the outside. Her fiance is the only person who said that the inside lock was locked. He's the only one that entered the apartment right away and was alone until police showed up. I worked in EMS for 9 years; I have NEVER seen a female suicide stab or shoot themselves. It is always said that "women want a pretty corpse, men want to create a mess". Also, there's no way that she would stab herself 20 times with her mental state and psychiatric history.

To add to the other things I don't believe about this story (like the assumption that she stabbed herself 20 times), the article I read says he broke down the door to get into the condo.

Why didn't he have a key? They were engaged. Several people have keys to my house, including my cat sitter and my partner's daughter.

My theory is he wanted to make sure people knew he broke into that building and give the illusion he was in a state pf panic about what was waiting inside.

Also, they say her demeanor changed during the weeks leading up to this - that could absolutely be due to a change in the relationship. Things may have gone bad, and that may have been the cause of that.

Of course, I'm not saying or thinking anything new here. All of this, to me, screams murder and cover up.

If I were the investigator looking into this, I'd be talking to the fiance, his family, her friends, his friends, and anyone else close to either of them to get a better picture on what was going on leading up to her death.

 

[cujenn81]

To add to the other things I don't believe about this story (like the assumption that she stabbed herself 20 times), the article I read says he broke down the door to get into the condo.

Why didn't he have a key? They were engaged. Several people have keys to my house, including my cat sitter and my partner's daughter.

My theory is he wanted to make sure people knew he broke into that building and give the illusion he was in a state pf panic about what was waiting inside.

Also, they say her demeanor changed during the weeks leading up to this - that could absolutely be due to a change in the relationship. Things may have gone bad, and that may have been the cause of that.

Of course, I'm not saying or thinking anything new here. All of this, to me, screams murder and cover up.

If I were the investigator looking into this, I'd be talking to the fiance, his family, her friends, his friends, and anyone else close to either of them to get a better picture on what was going on leading up to her death.

I think his story is that the door was locked from the inside with a chain, latch, or barrel bolt type of reinforced interior lock. I would love to see the crime scene photos of the doorframe and the broken latch or chain (if they even exist). Some of those locks are pretty easy to circumvent with the right tools while others aren’t as easily compromised.

 

[arielilane]

'Death In Apartment 603' Director Talks About 'What Doesn't Add Up' In Shocking Ellen Greenberg Case​

As snow continued to blanket the city of Philadelphia on January 26, 2011, Ellen Greenberg, an elementary school teacher, headed home to her Manayunk neighborhood apartment that she shared with her fiancé. Just hours later, her fiancé was dialing 911 – he said he found Ellen “on the floor with blood everywhere,” before saying that she either stabbed herself or fell on a knife. Police arrived to the scene, and from the beginning, treated Ellen’s death like a suicide. After conducting an autopsy, the medical examiner’s office originally ruled her death a homicide, before reversing course and changing the manner of death to suicide. She was found dead with 20 stab wounds, including multiple to the back of her neck. For the last 14 years, Ellen’s parents, Sandee and Josh Greenberg, have been steadfast in their belief that their daughter was murdered and have been fighting to get justice for Ellen ever since. In February of 2025, the pathologist who originally conducted her autopsy said he now believes Ellen did not take her own life. Nancy Schwartzman, showrunner and director of ‘Death in Apartment 603: What Happened to Ellen Greenberg?’ joins Forbes True Crime to discuss her new series that revisits the case.

 

[Aegon_the_Conqueror]

Watching on Hulu. One episode in. First I'm hearing of this even though I'm an hour and a half away. So far I can't find one reason why anyone would think this was a suicide, and it seems obvious that every level of the criminal justice system is just covering for each other, from the first responders up to Shapiro.

Then I think... Making a Murderer.

Is there something they're not telling us, or did they really drop the ball that badly?

 

[snarast]

Watching on Hulu. One episode in. First I'm hearing of this even though I'm an hour and a half away. So far I can't find one reason why anyone would think this was a suicide, and it seems obvious that every level of the criminal justice system is just covering for each other, from the first responders up to Shapiro.

Then I think... Making a Murderer.

Is there something they're not telling us, or did they really drop the ball that badly?

Could you elaborate on making a murderer? I guess I’ll never be able to see this hulu thing anyway. I’m in Europe.

 

[Aegon_the_Conqueror]

Could you elaborate on making a murderer? I guess I’ll never be able to see this hulu thing anyway. I’m in Europe.

Sure... About 10 years ago Making a Murderer came out on Netflix. It was about Steven Avery, who was exonerated by DNA for rape after spending 18 years in prison. A couple years later, he's arrested for the murder of Teresa Halbach, and later on, his nephew, Brandon Dassey, was also arrested after being interrogated. Both were convicted. The documentary made it seem like they were framed for the murder by cops that were inept and/or corrupt, and that Dassey was convicted based solely on a forced confession wherein he gave false details about the crime scene. The series was a sensation and the country was in an uproar; there was even a petition to have pardon them (unfortunately for them it was a STATE crime, not federal, and the pardon would have to come from the Wisconsin governor, not the president). The creators of the doc won Emmys. For the record, I would only go as far as to say they should get a new trial, convinced that there has been misconduct or incompetence but leaving open the possibility that we weren't being told something that implicated them in the murders. Over time, journalists would find various issues with the evidence as it was presented in the documentary, but the public was extremely slow to take notice; after several years, the calls for them to be exonerated mostly vanished, and while the general consensus might not have been that they were definitely guilty, the public was no longer convinced that they were innocent or that police misconduct had occurred. Finally, recently, Candice Owens came out with a docuseries called Convicting a Murderer that completely ripped the original series to shreds. Not only did the documentary leave out damning evidence that implemented both in the murder, but it was extremely deceptive in how it presented the evidence... Splicing questions with answers to to completely different questions, suggesting that a pinhole in a blood vial was evidence that blood had been removed (if you've ever had your blood drawn, you'll notice that the pinhole is how blood goes INTO the vial, not out), editing Dassey's interrogation to make it look forced when it was actually HIM that began divulging ACCURATE details of the crime scene to THEM when he wasn't even on their radar as a suspect, omitting that Avery basically stalked this woman prior to her murder, etc.

Hence why I'm hesitant to jump to conclusions in this case. I just finished the Hulu series and it still seems obvious that this was a murder, because the number and location of the stab wounds makes suicide seem absurd. So if there actually is evidence that makes suicide seem plausible... I'm all ears.

 

[snarast]

Sure... About 10 years ago Making a Murderer came out on Netflix. It was about Steven Avery, who was exonerated by DNA for rape after spending 18 years in prison. A couple years later, he's arrested for the murder of Teresa Halbach, and later on, his nephew, Brandon Dassey, was also arrested after being interrogated. Both were convicted. The documentary made it seem like they were framed for the murder by cops that were inept and/or corrupt, and that Dassey was convicted based solely on a forced confession wherein he gave false details about the crime scene. The series was a sensation and the country was in an uproar; there was even a petition to have pardon them (unfortunately for them it was a STATE crime, not federal, and the pardon would have to come from the Wisconsin governor, not the president). The creators of the doc won Emmys. For the record, I would only go as far as to say they should get a new trial, convinced that there has been misconduct or incompetence but leaving open the possibility that we weren't being told something that implicated them in the murders. Over time, journalists would find various issues with the evidence as it was presented in the documentary, but the public was extremely slow to take notice; after several years, the calls for them to be exonerated mostly vanished, and while the general consensus might not have been that they were definitely guilty, the public was no longer convinced that they were innocent or that police misconduct had occurred. Finally, recently, Candice Owens came out with a docuseries called Convicting a Murderer that completely ripped the original series to shreds. Not only did the documentary leave out damning evidence that implemented both in the murder, but it was extremely deceptive in how it presented the evidence... Splicing questions with answers to to completely different questions, suggesting that a pinhole in a blood vial was evidence that blood had been removed (if you've ever had your blood drawn, you'll notice that the pinhole is how blood goes INTO the vial, not out), editing Dassey's interrogation to make it look forced when it was actually HIM that began divulging ACCURATE details of the crime scene to THEM when he wasn't even on their radar as a suspect, omitting that Avery basically stalked this woman prior to her murder, etc.

Hence why I'm hesitant to jump to conclusions in this case. I just finished the Hulu series and it still seems obvious that this was a murder, because the number and location of the stab wounds makes suicide seem absurd. So if there actually is evidence that makes suicide seem plausible... I'm all ears.

That’s good thinking. Always be critical of your own assumptions.

Did they address Ellen’s rather strange mood in the hulu doc? Something was wrong.

Edit: now I’m starting out with the MAM-series…bit late but anyway