SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #18

[Katrinepa]

Just watched a video(Part 1) 'Murdaugh Police Statement 10 Red Flags in 7 minutes' True Crime Rocket Report on Youtube...If this reference is not allowed, I apologize and understand removing it.

Many valid points, and wrote down just a couple:
M shot 5 times, once in back of head
P shot 2 times
Interview in car w/police:
If he tried to turn either over, he would be covered in blood.
No tears or snot coming from his face, as he makes all kind of wailing noises, on an off, holding a tissue in his hands playing with it, but never using it. Also no sweating(can this happen from any drugs?). OTOH, the Officer sitting next to him wipes his face with a towel, as he was sweating.
Much more, but I was occupied, so could not write it all down.
Also compares him to Chris Watts in many of his words and actions.

 

[clearskies1]

Just remembering this point -- it seems that AM gave incorrect info to LE about Maggie's whereabouts the morning of the murders. In AM's second LE interview, he said he was sure that Maggie had been home at Moselle when he left that morning to go to work. But Maggie's text that day indicated that she actually was at the Edisto beach house, not Moselle. In the text Maggie said that AM wanted her to come home and that she had to leave the door open and unlocked at Edisto for others to lock later that day. JMO.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

On the Law&Crime lawyer-talk, a couple of them said, ok, AM used some opioids, but it couldn't have been an out-of-control addiction because AM wouldn't have been able to function properly at work & people would have noticed. I agree totally. What I want to know is: What do we, the public, know so far about where in the heck all of those millions of dollars went????

 

[Cindizzi]

From October 2022

Private island owned by Alex Murdaugh and suspected drug smuggler for sale in SC

 

[Walela]

Just remembering this point -- it seems that AM gave incorrect info to LE about Maggie's whereabouts the morning of the murders. In AM's second LE interview, he said he was sure that Maggie had been home at Moselle when he left that morning to go to work. But Maggie's text that day indicated that she actually was at the Edisto beach house, not Moselle. In the text Maggie said that AM wanted her to come home and that she had to leave the door open and unlocked at Edisto for others to lock later that day. JMO.

He is very experienced with the disbursement of incorrect information and I wonder if he's as good with remembering what he said incorrectly, to whom he said it and when. It must be very stressful even for an accomplished liar-cheater-thief when he can't recall what he first said when he's asked a second time. I wonder if his attorneys have caught him in any untruths.
jmo

 

[Boodles]

I think his mother's caregiver is on the state's witness list. I can't wait to hear what she witnessed that night.

I agree. The people I most want to hear from:
Cousin Eddie
Libby Murdaugh’s caregiver
Randy Murdaugh (brother)
Blanca
Buster

And I want to know whether he had life insurance policies on Maggie and Paul.

 

[Seattle1]

AM's wife: MM was rumored to have seen a divorce attorney, over an hour away, just a few weeks prior to the murders.

^^rsbm

Most recently, Maya Millete and Suzanne Morphew are just two women allegedly disappeared by their husbands because they were investigating a divorce from their husbands.

It's a long-known fact that women are most vulnerable when leaving a relationship, and one of the strongest motives for intimate partner homicide.

The quoted People article-- dated Sept 2021, citing a law enforcement source familiar with the investigation, that MM met with a divorce attorney in late April 2021 and was beginning to look into the family finances to determine the state of their marital assets, would be the easiest link a financial motive to kill MM (and boat crash litigation to kill Paul) that if credible, would be a no-brainer for the prosecution's case.

This Attorney General is prosecuting this case and I think it naive to believe the AG would omit the number one motive to murder your spouse from this trial if they could back up this allegation!

In my opinion, MM had the best of both worlds: a separate residence and a spouse that seemingly paid all her bills for her. MM died with her real estate assets heavily leveraged and $56 to her name. And AM was in worse shape! Divorce in an equitable division state would not likely be kind to MM. MOO

As family law attorneys in Charleston, SC, we’ve been asked whether South Carolina is a community property state. The short answer is “no.” However, South Carolina is called an “equitable division,” sometimes referred to as a “separate property,” state.

[..]

In an “equitable division state,” such as South Carolina, most of the marital property is considered the “separate property” of the spouses. It does not matter who the property is titled or deeded to or whose name an account is in. All that matters is whether the property is marital or non-marital. We explain how it is determined whether the property is marital or non-marital here.

If you are getting a divorce in South Carolina, you can basically forget the term “community property” because it will not have an impact on your case at all.

Is South Carolina a Community Property State?

Our Charleston legal experts explain if South Carolina is a community property state and the difference between community property & equitable division.

www.charlestonlaw.net

 

[clearskies1]

The jury knows about AM being sued in Paul's boat case. Is there any evidence before the jury about why Maggie's death would help AM?

 

[LetsSolvIt]

His defense will for sure have a 'plausability' for the video 'voice' and the stained-not-stained shirt. I want to see if what they say is what I think they will say.

As for the planing portion, I definitely believe he had a plan in his mind but wasn't sure just when or if he would need it. I believe as the opportunist AM is, he found the 7th of June to be the opportunity needed to carry out that plan. As we all know, plans have a way of not turning out like we imagine when we make those plans. Particularly if you plan to kill someone and you have only ever killed animals and not a human being you don't know what to expect from yourself. I keep thinking about the "I did him so bad" and what could that possibly mean beyond being a confession of sorts and have concluded that he thought it would be a straight up shot, one-and-done, to Paul and a quick turn to Maggie with the second shot. I don't believe he was expecting himself to fire the second shot to Paul. I think after the first shot failed to take him down, Paul may have staggered toward the door, coming toward him, and AM freaked and pulled the trigger a second time. He was just shooting at a figure, not paying any attention to where the shot was going. I don't think he meant to blow his son's head off and the "I did him so bad" was a subconscious slip of the tongue because the second shot was a startled reflex. I think the 300 Blackout was already down there and within reach. Who took it, put it, or left it there, or who caused it to be there, I don't have a clue.

I agree with a hasty cover up by a lawyer that up to then had been successful with bait-and-switch paper money cover ups but what happened at the kennels was a botched plan reality and he found himself in unfamiliar territory.

JMO, MOO

@Walela -- Boy, I think you have good instincts, and that's why I think some of Alec's sobbing is real. Yes, he is indignant and sorry for himself because he got caught, but he also has to be horrified by what he did to his son -- his own flesh and blood.

Putting together other ideas posted and what I heard in testimony, this is where I have landed on the guns:

I think Alec had left the Benelli shotgun he used down in the hangar/"shop" area at some point so it was ready for this event. (In the first interview with SLED in the car the night of June 7, AM mentioned that "someone" had left a shotgun down in the shop.)

It sounds like Paul usually carried his brown ArmaLite rifle (AR) with him at the farm. Out of habit, Paul probably brought it down to the kennels when they went to play with dogs, leaning it against the feed room wall or the fencing where he could grab it quickly if needed.

Alec shoots Paul with the Benelli in the manner @Walela suggests. Maggie, terrified, no doubt begins running away after the first shot. Alec shoots Paul again and then grabs Paul's AR to use on Maggie since she is moving and a further distance from him. The AR might have been an opportunity seized or Alec may have counted on Paul bringing his AR and had always planned to use it.

As far as the AR, Agent Greer said that the casings around Maggie had the same markings (my word not his) as the casings found around the side door up at the house and over at the gun range. The casings near the side door and at the gun range were more than likely from Paul and WL sighting Paul's brown camouflage AR a few weeks before when they bought the scope.

In other words without saying so specifically, Greer indicated that the shells from around Maggie, at the side door, and at the shooting range had all passed through the same gun, presumably the AR used to murder Maggie [Paul's brown AR, which is missing, right? -- and conveniently Alec can say how Paul misplaced stuff all the time including firearms].

(Do we know when Paul's brown AR was last seen?)

Further, my feeling is that the camouflaged Benelli shotgun that Alec had with him when LE arrived was probably used on Paul and quickly cleaned of incriminating evidence. (Gun owners, is a five-minute clean realistic?) He didn't go up to the house, that's just what he told LE.

OMO. MOO. MOO.

 

[keek]

@Walela -- Boy, I think you have good instincts, and that's why I think some of Alec's sobbing is real. Yes, he is indignant and sorry for himself because he got caught, but he also has to be horrified by what he did to his son -- his own flesh and blood.

Putting together other ideas posted and what I heard in testimony, this is where I have landed on the guns:

I think Alec had left the Benelli shotgun he used down in the hangar/"shop" area at some point so it was ready for this event. (In the first interview with SLED in the car the night of June 7, AM mentioned that "someone" had left a shotgun down in the shop.)

It sounds like Paul usually carried his brown ArmaLite rifle (AR) with him at the farm. Out of habit, Paul probably brought it down to the kennels when they went to play with dogs, leaning it against the feed room wall or the fencing where he could grab it quickly if needed.

Alec shoots Paul with the Benelli in the manner @Walela suggests. Maggie, terrified, no doubt begins running away after the first shot. Alec shoots Paul again and then grabs Paul's AR to use on Maggie since she is moving and a further distance from him. The AR might have been an opportunity seized or Alec may have counted on Paul bringing his AR and had always planned to use it.

As far as the AR, Agent Greer said that the casings around Maggie had the same markings (my word not his) as the casings found around the side door up at the house and over at the gun range. The casings near the side door and at the gun range were more than likely from Paul and WL sighting Paul's brown camouflage AR a few weeks before when they bought the scope.

In other words without saying so specifically, Greer indicated that the shells from around Maggie, at the side door, and at the shooting range had all passed through the same gun, presumably the AR used to murder Maggie [Paul's brown AR, which is missing, right? -- and conveniently Alec can say how Paul misplaced stuff all the time including firearms].

(Do we know when Paul's brown AR was last seen?)

Further, my feeling is that the camouflaged Benelli shotgun that Alec had with him when LE arrived was probably used on Paul and quickly cleaned of incriminating evidence. (Gun owners, is a five-minute clean realistic?) He didn't go up to the house, that's just what he told LE.

OMO. MOO. MOO.

Interesting thought about P's AR used. A not going up to the house.. wow, I feel this is true that he did not go up to the house, he just 'made that up' to sound 'danger danger, I went and got my gun'.. IT was odd how he put all that too it felt about gotta go git mah gun to the LE dispatcher. Him and his 'scenarios' he was planning out.

 

[Seattle1]

The jury knows about AM being sued in Paul's boat case. Is there any evidence before the jury about why Maggie's death would help AM?

The tried and true would be a pending divorce!

However, I think the rumblings proved to be more rumor than fact, and why there's been no mention of separation and/or divorce, beginning in the opening statement or in testimony before the jury. MOO

 

[MinnesotaMary]

If some 'mysterious person/s' had blown up Maggie and the son, the reaction of the father/Alex should be TERROR - a real father would go get his other son and have the sheriff whisk them away to a hiding place. What ACTUALLY unfolded was absolutely RIDICULOUS!

 

[clearskies1]

@Walela -- Boy, I think you have good instincts, and that's why I think some of Alec's sobbing is real. Yes, he is indignant and sorry for himself because he got caught, but he also has to be horrified by what he did to his son -- his own flesh and blood.

Putting together other ideas posted and what I heard in testimony, this is where I have landed on the guns:

I think Alec had left the Benelli shotgun he used down in the hangar/"shop" area at some point so it was ready for this event. (In the first interview with SLED in the car the night of June 7, AM mentioned that "someone" had left a shotgun down in the shop.)

It sounds like Paul usually carried his brown ArmaLite rifle (AR) with him at the farm. Out of habit, Paul probably brought it down to the kennels when they went to play with dogs, leaning it against the feed room wall or the fencing where he could grab it quickly if needed.

Alec shoots Paul with the Benelli in the manner @Walela suggests. Maggie, terrified, no doubt begins running away after the first shot. Alec shoots Paul again and then grabs Paul's AR to use on Maggie since she is moving and a further distance from him. The AR might have been an opportunity seized or Alec may have counted on Paul bringing his AR and had always planned to use it.

As far as the AR, Agent Greer said that the casings around Maggie had the same markings (my word not his) as the casings found around the side door up at the house and over at the gun range. The casings near the side door and at the gun range were more than likely from Paul and WL sighting Paul's brown camouflage AR a few weeks before when they bought the scope.

In other words without saying so specifically, Greer indicated that the shells from around Maggie, at the side door, and at the shooting range had all passed through the same gun, presumably the AR used to murder Maggie [Paul's brown AR, which is missing, right? -- and conveniently Alec can say how Paul misplaced stuff all the time including firearms].

(Do we know when Paul's brown AR was last seen?)

Further, my feeling is that the camouflaged Benelli shotgun that Alec had with him when LE arrived was probably used on Paul and quickly cleaned of incriminating evidence. (Gun owners, is a five-minute clean realistic?) He didn't go up to the house, that's just what he told LE.

OMO. MOO. MOO.

I think Will Loving testified that he last saw Paul's AR around March 22, 2001 -- when turkey hunting season opened and they went turkey hunting. I don't remember any evidence about it being seen more recently than that. I feel like the State does not believe that the 12 gauge shotgun that AM was holding when they arrived (that had 16 gauge ammo in it) was not the murder weapon, but I don't know why I think that -- I can't remember what the State said about it. I do remember testimony that preliminary blood tests on the rifle that AM was carrying were positive for blood, but I don't remember anything further on that point, which is odd. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. JMO.

 

[Katrinepa]

His defense will for sure have a 'plausability' for the video 'voice' and the stained-not-stained shirt. I want to see if what they say is what I think they will say.

As for the planing portion, I definitely believe he had a plan in his mind but wasn't sure just when or if he would need it. I believe as the opportunist AM is, he found the 7th of June to be the opportunity needed to carry out that plan. As we all know, plans have a way of not turning out like we imagine when we make those plans. Particularly if you plan to kill someone and you have only ever killed animals and not a human being you don't know what to expect from yourself. I keep thinking about the "I did him so bad" and what could that possibly mean beyond being a confession of sorts and have concluded that he thought it would be a straight up shot, one-and-done, to Paul and a quick turn to Maggie with the second shot. I don't believe he was expecting himself to fire the second shot to Paul. I think after the first shot failed to take him down, Paul may have staggered toward the door, coming toward him, and AM freaked and pulled the trigger a second time. He was just shooting at a figure, not paying any attention to where the shot was going. I don't think he meant to blow his son's head off and the "I did him so bad" was a subconscious slip of the tongue because the second shot was a startled reflex. I think the 300 Blackout was already down there and within reach. Who took it, put it, or left it there, or who caused it to be there, I don't have a clue.

I agree with a hasty cover up by a lawyer that up to then had been successful with bait-and-switch paper money cover ups but what happened at the kennels was a botched plan reality and he found himself in unfamiliar territory.

JMO, MOO

If Maggie was looking into divorce, and he found out, as he probably heard from a lawyer friend, he was so angry, as She owned some of he Properties and was going to cut him off(?), so he Planned to kill her, and set that up(as Paul's friend said he only saw her go to the dogs pen in the daytime). I don't think he knew Paul would be at the dog kennels, and was surprised when he came out, hearing the shots, seeing his Mother murdered(5 Shots, shows Hate IMPOV, as one was in the back of her head), (AM probably no longer had the first murder weapon in hand, or perhaps it stuck, so he grabbed another-insane that guns were everywhere) Paul caught/challenged his Father, who then shot and killed him with 2 shots. Can't leave any witnesses.

 

[Boodles]

I think I agree but sound like focus groups did not, according to Condon. I guess maybe I shouldn't waste energy on stuff like this. We won't know what THIS jury thinks until we know! Just praying there is no tampering or intimidation, or anyone who was a "plant."

AMEN!

 

[Katrinepa]

On the Law&Crime lawyer-talk, a couple of them said, ok, AM used some opioids, but it couldn't have been an out-of-control addiction because AM wouldn't have been able to function properly at work & people would have noticed. I agree totally. What I want to know is: What do we, the public, know so far about where in the heck all of those millions of dollars went????

Gambling.

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

Thanks! Is there any opinion as to which way the judge is leaning?

I'm fairly confident it will come in. The question is how much. It may be limited to wrongdoing close in time to the murders and thus not include the Satterfield and other later discovered, earlier cases. But should include the law firm theft, which itself is HUGE. Honestly, I don't think they need much more. I kind of wonder if the state was more sending a message by presenting the Satterfield son's testimony. Whatever the case, I'm glad that part of the story was told. Because this kind of theft, like the Girardi case, involves just the scummiest behavior for a lawyer. Breaching your fiduciary duty and stealing client funds. Those funds represent actual people who were victimized first by some accident and then by Alex Murdaugh who came to them as some attorney angel who truly cares about them. He would even sue himself. What a guy.

IMO under 404(b) I think at the very least the confrontation evidence will come in. Testimony from the CFO about her finding him out and the later confrontation on the day of the murder. That's a fairly extraordinary event and extremely close in time and, IMO, convincing evidence of AM's inner frantic, jig is up state.

Even using the states theory of the case, which seems to be more focused on the murder being an event designed to be a distraction and provide AM with sympathy as the sh*t was hitting the fan, this CFO testimony would be relevant as he greatly needed a distraction & some sympathy at that point and murder does attract attention & sympathy. But sympathy tends to be limited to the victims and AM's staging may not end up being as effective as it usually is/was.

Something I'm curious about is the part of that rule that differs from the federal one. In South Carolina the prosecution does NOT have to inform the defendant about what evidence they intend to introduce under it. Now I don't practice in SC so not sure how it works in practice as prosecutors have other ethical rules to follow in regard to evidence but that's really about exculpatory evidence NOT inculpatory evidence. Makes me wonder/hope the prosecution might even have some surprises to elicit from testimony. Maybe Cousin Eddie...might they have done some criming back in the day?

 

[MinnesotaMary]

IMO what was going through Alex's mind was typical domestic abuser: It's THEIR fault. THEY made this happen. THEY pushed me too far. THEY wrecked my life. THEY caused this. 'Sorry.....but THEY MADE ME DO IT'. Gives me the heeby-jeebies how Alex literally blew both their heads to bits with those big rifles - TOTALLY premeditated. I'm anti-gun, but Alex 'played' with guns - Alex TOTALLY KNEW what effect shooting at his son's head and 2 shots at his wife' s head would do.
I'm not from the south - all I know about the south really is what I've learned from the Borat II movie - someone posted that 'southern society people' act totally phony, so none of us should ever think for a moment that they were actually a 'happy household'.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

I read that the housekeeper's two sons both are special needs - is that true? I am so, so revolted at Alex stealing from such a clearly entirely trusting and entirely vulnerable young man. Another thing I noticed Alex did: As a part of tricking his 'best friend', that separate lawyer, Chris, Alex wrote on a lot of the money Alex laundered through Chris that Alex had steeply - 'oh, so generously' - discounted Alex's own lawyer fees, for example, for a big insurance payout of ~$400,000, Alex would have Chris think that Alex was only taking a measly $20,000 - Alex did that to have Chris thinking Alex 'is such a hero, so very generous, giving, only cares about other people not himself - oh what a hero and role model Alex is'.

 

[clearskies1]

Interesting -- starting at 6:58, a discussion of Alex possibly testifying.