Demanding an apology for themselves smacks of an inability to separate their feelings from hers. They come across as very entitled too
UK - Lucy Letby - Post-Conviction Statutory Inquiry
- Thread starter Tortoise
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That's called enmeshment.
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I don't believe it for a second. The sole source for this story is LL who is a convicted murder and verified fantasist and liar.
Even if it's true I don't see how it would hugely influence her choice of career given that she would have no recollection of it.
I've always assumed she spent 12hrs in there for jaundice, but has made it sound like she was fighting for life, for months on end
[...]
"The legal team representing former managers at the Countess of Chester is expected to submit that continuing the inquiry without considering the alternative hypotheses being looked at by the CCRC would be a breach of the duty to act fairly under the Inquiries Act.
It comes as protestors gathered outside Liverpool Town Hall, where the hearing is taking place, to protest against Letby’s convictions.
Barristers representing the families are expected to argue that the managers are trying to absolve themselves of blame."
[...]
Live updates:
10:14AM
Previous requests to pause the inquiry have come from the former senior managers of the Countess of Chester and Sir David Davis, the former Brexit Secretary.
“A few moments ago I received a letter from a new firm of solicitors on behalf of Lucy Letby,” she said.
“I’ve not had the time to read it, but I can see from the second paragraph, it’s a request that I should suspend the inquiry. I’ve asked that the letter be sent to all core participants.”
The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) is opening the closing submissions this morning.
10:23AM
Lady Justice Thirlwall said she wanted “very clear reassurance” that “this is actually going to happen”.
“I would need to be very clear about what the process was going to be and who was going to be responsible for it,” she said.
Neil Shelton KC, representing DHSC said: “Through the Secretary of State, the Department bears ultimate responsibility for the healthcare system, both at the time of the events being examined and now.
“It exercises oversight through a range of other bodies and systems. Those oversight mechanisms did not protect the babies born at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
“For its part, the Department acknowledges that there has been a failure to learn from past incidents. Recommendations have been made but insufficient action has been taken.
“The Secretary of State has been unequivocal that this must change, describing the NHS as “broken” and announcing that it is the mission of the Government to build an NHS that is fit for the future.”
Lucy Letby hospital managers ‘to call for end to baby deaths inquiry’
"The legal team representing former managers at the Countess of Chester is expected to submit that continuing the inquiry without considering the alternative hypotheses being looked at by the CCRC would be a breach of the duty to act fairly under the Inquiries Act.
It comes as protestors gathered outside Liverpool Town Hall, where the hearing is taking place, to protest against Letby’s convictions.
Barristers representing the families are expected to argue that the managers are trying to absolve themselves of blame."
[...]
Live updates:
10:14AM
Letby’s solicitors call for inquiry to be suspended
Lady Justice Thirlwall has said she has received a new letter this morning from solicitors representing Lucy Letby calling for the inquiry to be suspended.Previous requests to pause the inquiry have come from the former senior managers of the Countess of Chester and Sir David Davis, the former Brexit Secretary.
“A few moments ago I received a letter from a new firm of solicitors on behalf of Lucy Letby,” she said.
“I’ve not had the time to read it, but I can see from the second paragraph, it’s a request that I should suspend the inquiry. I’ve asked that the letter be sent to all core participants.”
The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) is opening the closing submissions this morning.
10:23AM
Abolition of NHS England causes headscratching for inquiry
The abolition of NHS England is causing some head-scratching at the inquiry as the Department of Health will now need to soak up any recommendations addressed to the body.Lady Justice Thirlwall said she wanted “very clear reassurance” that “this is actually going to happen”.
“I would need to be very clear about what the process was going to be and who was going to be responsible for it,” she said.
Neil Shelton KC, representing DHSC said: “Through the Secretary of State, the Department bears ultimate responsibility for the healthcare system, both at the time of the events being examined and now.
“It exercises oversight through a range of other bodies and systems. Those oversight mechanisms did not protect the babies born at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
“For its part, the Department acknowledges that there has been a failure to learn from past incidents. Recommendations have been made but insufficient action has been taken.
“The Secretary of State has been unequivocal that this must change, describing the NHS as “broken” and announcing that it is the mission of the Government to build an NHS that is fit for the future.”
Lucy Letby hospital managers ‘to call for end to baby deaths inquiry’
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Colour me surprised.
10:46AM
Neil Sheldon KC said: “The bottom line is that the Secretary of State is determined to ensure that the department improves its record in this regard.
“The tragic events at the Countess of Chester should not have been allowed to happen in the first place but when they do the lessons have to be learned and real lasting change has to be implemented.”
Addressing the bereaved families, he added: “The dignity and resilience that they have shown throughout this inquiry has been remarkable.”
Lucy Letby hospital managers ‘to call for end to baby deaths inquiry’
Department of Health must ‘get better’ at implementing inquiry recommendations
The Department of Health and Social Care has admitted it has “to get better” at implementing recommendations from previous inquiries.Neil Sheldon KC said: “The bottom line is that the Secretary of State is determined to ensure that the department improves its record in this regard.
“The tragic events at the Countess of Chester should not have been allowed to happen in the first place but when they do the lessons have to be learned and real lasting change has to be implemented.”
Addressing the bereaved families, he added: “The dignity and resilience that they have shown throughout this inquiry has been remarkable.”
Lucy Letby hospital managers ‘to call for end to baby deaths inquiry’
Pictures are emerging of the rabble of Letbyists in Liverpool. Most of them are holding up really cheap-looking signs with one of either two slogans: "trade unions must act" (erm, whatever!), or "no babies were murdered" (urgh, these people are ghouls).
I notice the majority of them are middle-aged.
I notice the majority of them are middle-aged.
11:31AM
Jason Beer KC, representing the body, which will soon be abolished, said that it was “an issue for the Secretary of State” which, in this case, is Wes Streeting.
“NHS England adopts a neutral position in relation to whether the inquiry should be suspended,” he told the hearing
“Whatever decision is ultimately taken, the work NHS England has described in these closing submissions as underway will continue.”
The inquiry is having a break and will resume at 11.45am.
NHS England ‘neutral’ on suspending inquiry
NHS England has said it is taking a “neutral” position on whether to suspend the inquiry.Jason Beer KC, representing the body, which will soon be abolished, said that it was “an issue for the Secretary of State” which, in this case, is Wes Streeting.
“NHS England adopts a neutral position in relation to whether the inquiry should be suspended,” he told the hearing
“Whatever decision is ultimately taken, the work NHS England has described in these closing submissions as underway will continue.”
The inquiry is having a break and will resume at 11.45am.
3. The Chair has also asked Core Participants in these closing submissions to respond to a request from the legal team for the Former Executives to suspend the Inquiry's proceedings under section 17 of the Inquiries Act 2005 (“the 2005 Act”) pending the outcome of Lucy Letby’s application in respect of her criminal convictions to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. A similar request has been made under section 13 of the 2005 Act to the Minister responsible for this Inquiry, the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.
4. NHS England’s position is that (i) the power to suspend the Inquiry rests with the Secretary of State under s.13 of the 2005 Act1, not with the Chair under s17 of the 2005 Act; (ii) that if he was considering exercising the power under s.13 of the 2005 Act, the Secretary of State would be required to consult with the Chair; (iii) the Chair may use the occasion of these submissions to obtain the positions of the Core Participants in the Inquiry to inform any representations she made to the Secretary of State in the event of such a consultation; and (iv) NHS England adopts a neutral position in relation to whether the Inquiry should be suspended. Whatever decision is ultimately taken, the work NHS England has described in these Closing Submissions as underway will continue.
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Those people protesting really disgust me.
They should all be locked in a room and forced to read the thousands of pages of evidence - I bet none of them have followed the case closely just heard little leaked snippets from her legal team.
I have no doubt she is guilty - she is also guilty of many more IMO which the jury just couldn’t all agree on.
They should all be locked in a room and forced to read the thousands of pages of evidence - I bet none of them have followed the case closely just heard little leaked snippets from her legal team.
I have no doubt she is guilty - she is also guilty of many more IMO which the jury just couldn’t all agree on.
Care Quality Commission - extracts re pausing the Inquiry:
2. These written submissions are structured as follows: A. The February 2016 inspection; B. Events from 30 June 2016 onwards; C. Specific issues that have been raised by the Inquiry (including those identified in the Inquiry’s Note of 4 February 2025); D. Areas of reflection; E. The request, made on behalf of the former Countess of Chester Hospital executives, for the Inquiry to be paused.
[...]
E. The request to pause the Inquiry
90. By email dated 23 February 2025 the Inquiry invited Core Participants to comment on the formal request to pause the Inquiry, including the applicable law. CQC’s comments below relate only to the law. It does not seek to make submissions as to what the Chair should do in response to this request.
91. CQC notes that, in addition to requesting the Chair to pause the Inquiry under section 17(3) of the Inquiries Act 2005, a request has been made in parallel to the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to suspend the proceedings of the Inquiry under section 13 of the Act. Section 13 has recently been considered by the Supreme Court in the case of In re JR 222 [2024] 1 WLR 4877 where, at paragraph 62, Lord Stephens observed that “not only is there no prohibition in the Act on an inquiry proceeding if there are criminal proceedings but the Act expressly envisages that in the exercise of discretion an inquiry can continue if there are such proceedings.” Lord Stephens further added (judgment, paragraph 85) that it would be contrary to the statutory purpose of an inquiry (“which is to address public concerns”) “if an inquiry were to be suspended unless it was necessary to do so for one of the stated purposes”. The Supreme Court thus read section 13 as imposing a high bar (namely a strict test of necessity for one of the statutory reasons specified) before suspension of a public inquiry by the minister would be appropriate, and considered that the mere fact of parallel criminal proceedings would not, without more, be sufficient to satisfy this hurdle.95*
(*95 A fortiori, it might be thought, in the present case where there are no parallel criminal proceedings but an undetermined application to the CCRC.)
The exercise of the power in section 13 is a matter for the Secretary of State (subject to a mandatory duty of consultation with the Chair), but the nature of that power (as construed by the Supreme Court) may be relevant to the Chair’s consideration of the request to pause the Inquiry under section 17(3)of the Act.
92.Section 17 contains no express power to “pause” an inquiry, but provides that the procedure and conduct of an inquiry “are to be such as the chairman of the inquiry may direct” (section 17(1)) and that “In making any decision as to the procedure or conduct of an inquiry, the chairman must act with fairness and with regard also to the need to avoid any unnecessary cost (whether to public funds or to witnesses or others)” (section 17(3)). It may be arguable that section 17 empowers a chair to “pause” an inquiry where it would be unfair to continue.
93.Having regard to both sections 13 and 17, CQC suggests that:
a. Halting an inquiry is principally a matter for the minister under section 13 (which expressly provides for suspension).
b. The minister’s powers under section 13 are highly circumscribed and can only be exercised, following consultation with the chair, where it is necessary for one of the statutory purposes.
c. That a ministerial decision to suspend is subject to such a high bar suggests that a similar decision by an inquiry chair should be similarly constrained.
d. If the fact that parallel investigations are ongoing does not, without more, require a minister to suspend an inquiry, it follows that the mere fact of parallel proceedings would not, without more, require the chair to do so on grounds of fairness.
e. Assuming that section 17 does empower the Chair to “pause” the Inquiry, this would require the Chair to consider whether it would be fair to all the participants in the Inquiry to suspend it for an indefinite period pending a decision by the CCRC as to whether the case should be referred to the Court of Appeal, in circumstances where (as things stand) there is a conviction and matters have proceeded no further than a reference to the CCRC.96*
(96* Section 17(3) refers also to the need to avoid any unnecessary cost. However, section 17(3) requires the chair to have regard to this factor, rather than requiring the chair to act so as to avoid unnecessary cost. In other words, it is a relevant consideration, but no more.)
Written Closing Submission of the Nursing and Midwifery Council
FORMER senior executives at the Countess of Chester Hospital have asked for the public inquiry into the events surrounding the crimes of Lucy Letby to be suspended.
Inquiry chair Lady Justice Thirlwall said she had received the request last month from counsel for the management team at the time that killer nurse Letby attacked babies in 2015 and 2016.
Lawyers representing chief executive Tony Chambers, medical director Ian Harvey, director of nursing Alison Kelly and HR director Sue Hodkinson made the application...
more at link
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
BBM
Inquiry chair Lady Justice Thirlwall said she had received the request last month from counsel for the management team at the time that killer nurse Letby attacked babies in 2015 and 2016.
Lawyers representing chief executive Tony Chambers, medical director Ian Harvey, director of nursing Alison Kelly and HR director Sue Hodkinson made the application...
more at link
Hospital executives call for suspension of Lucy Letby public inquiry
FORMER senior executives at the Countess of Chester Hospital have asked for the public inquiry into the events surrounding the crimes…
BBM
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Ooooh I believe it. This is exactly how these individuals behaved towards the consultants while refusing to investigate properly and call in the police. We're drawing a line under this...all emails cease forthwith...you have no evidence...apologise to LL or you'll be reported to the GMC...
It sounds like consciousness of guilt to me.
MOO
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1:51PM
In the four-page document, they argue there was no direct evidence against the nurse, and said “compelling” new data from international experts suggest there were no crimes.
Setting out 11 reasons why the evidence presented to the jury was deficient, they urged the inquiry to be paused to wait for the outcome of the Criminal Cases Review Commission
“Ms Letby maintains her innocence,” the letter states. “There is now substantial evidence that undermines all the convictions. The terms of reference of the Inquiry were drafted on the basis that Lucy Letby is guilty and therefore will not consider any evidence which contradicts this.
“If, given the overwhelming evidence that the convictions are unsafe, they are overturned, then any report produced by the inquiry will be based on the wrong premise.”
Letby’s legal team said they planned to submit all their new evidence to the CCRC this week.
The letter adds: “There will soon be a meeting between the defence team and the allocated Commissioner to talk though the large, authoritative, body of new clinical evidence.
“Following this meeting, it is likely that the CCRC will not take long to consider the application before referring it back to the Court of Appeal.”
Lucy Letby’s lawyers call for end of inquiry amid miscarriage of justice fears
Revealed: The letter sent by Lucy Letby’s legal team
The Telegraph has seen the letter sent to Lady Justice Thirlwall this morning from Letby’s lawyers in which they ask for the inquiry to be suspended.In the four-page document, they argue there was no direct evidence against the nurse, and said “compelling” new data from international experts suggest there were no crimes.
Setting out 11 reasons why the evidence presented to the jury was deficient, they urged the inquiry to be paused to wait for the outcome of the Criminal Cases Review Commission
“Ms Letby maintains her innocence,” the letter states. “There is now substantial evidence that undermines all the convictions. The terms of reference of the Inquiry were drafted on the basis that Lucy Letby is guilty and therefore will not consider any evidence which contradicts this.
“If, given the overwhelming evidence that the convictions are unsafe, they are overturned, then any report produced by the inquiry will be based on the wrong premise.”
Letby’s legal team said they planned to submit all their new evidence to the CCRC this week.
The letter adds: “There will soon be a meeting between the defence team and the allocated Commissioner to talk though the large, authoritative, body of new clinical evidence.
“Following this meeting, it is likely that the CCRC will not take long to consider the application before referring it back to the Court of Appeal.”
Lucy Letby’s lawyers call for end of inquiry amid miscarriage of justice fears
Written Closing Submission of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health "RCPCH"
EXTRACT:
1. The RCPCH does not wish to make written or oral submissions on the application made on behalf of the former directors of COCH and the separate request by Sir David Davis MP in his letter of 28 February 2025.
EXTRACT:
1. The RCPCH does not wish to make written or oral submissions on the application made on behalf of the former directors of COCH and the separate request by Sir David Davis MP in his letter of 28 February 2025.
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I totally agree. These people are disgusting, quite frankly.
She is very clearly guilty and anyone who followed the trial in any detail can put the pieces together. And this is coming from someone who was convinced she was innocent when I first heard of the case way back in 2020.
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Complete fantasy! There is zero chance of this getting to the Court of Appeal, imo.
If they present that rubbish about baby A dying due to contracting a condition from his mother which was already dealt with in court they'll be laughed at.
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