GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[wendybtn]

And IF...IF this does turnout to be an accident it shows Noah knew not to leave his own yard.

My mom never spent all day playing with me, choosing my friends and times we would play. She did adult things and I played with other neighborhood kids. I think that is part of why we see so many women having PPD, being unhappy, etc. My folks did not watch cartoons all day, watch me all day. A certain benign neglect is required to have a kid that knows he/she will be alright after turning 18 & not living with mommy and daddy. I think helicoptering leads to kids w/no self-confidence, who get the message "I cannot do anything w/o mom and dad, because I am not competent. If I was competent my folks would let me handle some of my own problems, do my own homework, my own science project even if it is not as good as them doing it." JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

The thing is, LE did not know what they had in Noah's disappearance and should have been open to everything, including murder, by at least day two. So septic tank should have been checked as a matter of course, whether it looked disturbed or not. It is one of the places kids have ended up before. Jmo

Totally agree, my thoughts exactly.

 

[Meemaw12]

I agree.I have the same question.I really think dogs would have tracked him there too.That's why I'm so bothered about that and feel it was not an accident.

I don't know anything about dog searching just have these questions that pop in my head that doesn't imo make sense.

Thank you


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[Tillicum]

I agree.I have the same question.I really think dogs would have tracked him there too.That's why I'm so bothered about that and feel it was not an accident.

These dogs tracked to the tank with the scents of several kids there. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...-terry-isaacs-fruitland-park-open-septic-tank

"It appears to be a very, very tragic accident," said Isaacs, who didn't immediately release the name or age of the girl because an investigation is ongoing.

He said the opening above the septic tank behind the home at 704 Jewell St. was about 1 foot wide by 2 feet long.

The group at the house included two toddlers and a baby, who were put in the fenced backyard while the adults moved belongings, Isaacs said. Police were notified that a child was missing about 11:30 a.m.

A department K9 dog, Bella, who specializes in search and rescue, "tracked straight to the back yard" and to the open septic tank, Isaacs said.

 

[blue22]

Ok gotta a question

If dogs tracked Noah to the road (don't know if side road to mobile home or main road)!

Wouldn't same dogs track him to the septic tank if he was walking to It?


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I think the purpose of the dogs was to find where Noah had gone. They were operating under the premise that he wandered off. They tracked his scent (meaning they had a scent to follow, so it very well could have gone right by or over the tank) to the road. The dogs were spot on. He did not leave. They had no cause to stay over the septic tank, since they are tracking dogs and not cadaver dogs. And actually, I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) all that human waste could even throw the ability of a cadaver dog to have a positive hit.

 

[iamnotagolem]

My mom never spent all day playing with me, choosing my friends and times we would play. She did adult things and I played with other neighborhood kids. I think that is part of why we see so many women having PPD, being unhappy, etc. My folks did not watch cartoons all day, watch me all day. A certain benign neglect is required to have a kid that knows he/she will be alright after turning 18 & not living with mommy and daddy. I think helicoptering leads to kids w/no self-confidence, who get the message "I cannot do anything w/o mom and dad, because I am not competent. If I was competent my folks would let me handle some of my own problems, do my own homework, my own science project even if it is not as good as them doing it." JMO

I think there is a misconception about "helicopter" parents. Or maybe I'm not one and think I am. I take my kids to the park and stay there w/them. They play w/their friends, they work out their differences and conflicts themselves. I am there if they need drinks or snacks but while I'm there I visit with my friends or catch up on FB or WS. I push them on the tire swing if they need it b/c it's incredibly difficult to push, and I don't mind the calorie burn I get from it.

I don't sit with them when they watch TV, I do laundry, clean, dishes, WS :blushing: projects around the house. I do sit outside with them if they are out front so they can ride their bikes to the end of the block, I keep an eye on them while I do yard work or read.

 

[blue22]

My mom never spent all day playing with me, choosing my friends and times we would play. She did adult things and I played with other neighborhood kids. I think that is part of why we see so many women having PPD, being unhappy, etc. My folks did not watch cartoons all day, watch me all day. A certain benign neglect is required to have a kid that knows he/she will be alright after turning 18 & not living with mommy and daddy. I think helicoptering leads to kids w/no self-confidence, who get the message "I cannot do anything w/o mom and dad, because I am not competent. If I was competent my folks would let me handle some of my own problems, do my own homework, my own science project even if it is not as good as them doing it." JMO

I was allowed to play with friends and be alone, as well. But I was not unsupervised at age 5 for hours at a time. I think most parents allow benign neglect, but are responsible enough to keep tabs on their children's whereabouts without hovering. None of that happened here, unfortunately. Which is not the same as benign neglect.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

What if the hard tip was odor coming from the area or backing up into the house? If the vent pipe was clogged by clothing or whatever, the odor could have built up from the gasses. Or the odor could have been coming from the vent pipe when people were outside.

It would make sense especially if it was someone who knew what decomp smelled like as it is distinct and unforgettable.

 

[courtneyb]

I think there is a misconception about "helicopter" parents. Or maybe I'm not one and think I am. I take my kids to the park and stay there w/them. They play w/their friends, they work out their differences and conflicts themselves. I am there if they need drinks or snacks but while I'm there I visit with my friends or catch up on FB or WS. I push them on the tire swing if they need it b/c it's incredibly difficult to push, and I don't mind the calorie burn I get from it.

I don't sit with them when they watch TV, I do laundry, clean, dishes, WS :blushing: projects around the house. I do sit outside with them if they are out front so they can ride their bikes to the end of the block, I keep an eye on them while I do yard work or read.

I think we are very similar. Thanks for this. This describes my level of "supervision" perfectly.

 

[Steleheart]

Ok gotta a question

If dogs tracked Noah to the road (don't know if side road to mobile home or main road)!

Wouldn't same dogs track him to the septic tank if he was walking to It?


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Well I am sure there are people who are pretty well qualified to instruct about dog search and rescue, but from the little I understand I think it is very difficult to track a child in his own yard and a dog may not differentiate between yesterday's track and today's track, and further, if Noah was carried there the dog would not have a track for him but may alert on a stranger. But I think that would depend on the dog and handler?

:cow:

 

[courtneyb]

I don't hover over my children, but I'm awake and available and nearby. My kids do their own schoolwork and projects. My daughter made a Mardi Gras float project in February that, though beautiful to me, was not picture perfect as a lot of her classmates' were, who obviously had help from or had parents who made the float. But, she independently did it and would have refused my help if I'd offered. However, if she needed help with cutting something or using the hot glue gun, which she used by herself, because I have taught her how to safely, I would have been readily accessible to help her. And now, mpnola, I'm going read my book, as promised.

 

[Steleheart]

What if the hard tip was odor coming from the area or backing up into the house? If the vent pipe was clogged by clothing or whatever, the odor could have built up from the gasses. Or the odor could have been coming from the vent pipe when people were outside.

It would make sense especially if it was someone who knew what decomp smelled like as it is distinct and unforgettable.

Something got them there quick and hurry.

 

[JeannaT]

Respectfully BBM...And then it was amazing to witness some of these very same helicopter parents not blink an eye once their children turned 13, 14, 15 and instead of staying involved, becoming actually more in tune to their preteen or teen, these same kids---who could not cross the street alone to pick up a quart of milk or go to school without an adult, or walk down the block without an adult, were free to experiment with alcohol, weed, and allowed to have their bedroom doors closed with mixed sex guests, sleep over homes without checking if an adult would be in the home etc.

Often disastrous results...

I completely agree with you. Our middle school PTA slogan was "Now is not the time to look away". Parents who had supervised really well when the kids were in elementary were now giving the kids a lot of freedom in the form of ignoring the signs of drug abuse and illicit sex.

I still think . . . allowing kids to explore the woods and the neighborhood is a good thing. Ignoring problems, though, isn't a good thing.

 

[kaen]

I don't hover over my children, but I'm awake and available and nearby. My kids do their own schoolwork and projects. My daughter made a Mardi Gras float project in February that, though beautiful to me, was not picture perfect as a lot of her classmates' were, who obviously had help from or had parents who made the float. But, she I deoendantly did it and would have refused my help if I'd offered. However, if she needed help with cutting something or using the hot glue gun, which she used by herself, because I have taught her how to safely, I would have been readily accessible to help her.

What you write is key. Encourage independence, offer support if asked for and needed, and remember that the best work is their work because it fosters learning, problem solving and executive skip building. Your kids have a great model in that you are delivering the message that they can achieve their best by doing their best.

 

[Steleheart]

I think the purpose of the dogs was to find where Noah had gone. They were operating under the premise that he wandered off. They tracked his scent (meaning they had a scent to follow, so it very well could have gone right by or over the tank) to the road. The dogs were spot on. He did not leave. They had no cause to stay over the septic tank, since they are tracking dogs and not cadaver dogs. And actually, I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) all that human waste could even throw the ability of a cadaver dog to have a positive hit.

Yes. If anything they showed that Noah never left the yard. Didn't go in the woods, not down the road, not the neighbors. In fact Noah's scent was all over the yard because he lived there. Septic tank, the perfect cover.

Argh.

 

[JeannaT]

My mom never spent all day playing with me, choosing my friends and times we would play. She did adult things and I played with other neighborhood kids. I think that is part of why we see so many women having PPD, being unhappy, etc. My folks did not watch cartoons all day, watch me all day. A certain benign neglect is required to have a kid that knows he/she will be alright after turning 18 & not living with mommy and daddy. I think helicoptering leads to kids w/no self-confidence, who get the message "I cannot do anything w/o mom and dad, because I am not competent. If I was competent my folks would let me handle some of my own problems, do my own homework, my own science project even if it is not as good as them doing it." JMO

Yes. Thank you.

 

[TeganJeff]

Not sure if this has been brought up or not since I'm still catching up, but if this were an accident, wouldn't they know from the autopsy already? If he fell in and drowned, wouldn't his lungs be full of liquid and waste?
Why would they have to wait for toxicology reports?
So sad...


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[Tillicum]

If I were going to hide something in that septic tank knowing that within hours, searchers would be all over that yard, I would pull the little red building on wheels over the top of it to give the appearance it was inaccessible and obscure any slight disturbance to the sod.

 

[Steleheart]

I don't hover over my children, but I'm awake and available and nearby. My kids do their own schoolwork and projects. My daughter made a Mardi Gras float project in February that, though beautiful to me, was not picture perfect as a lot of her classmates' were, who obviously had help from or had parents who made the float. But, she independently did it and would have refused my help if I'd offered. However, if she needed help with cutting something or using the hot glue gun, which she used by herself, because I have taught her how to safely, I would have been readily accessible to help her. And now, mpnola, I'm going read my book, as promised.

O/T, but,
You know, you are all wonderful, really! I made a mistake. My daughter came to me in the 5th grade and said "Daddy I need some ideas how to build a robot. First Prize it this awesome back pack." I said YES! Let's go to Home Depot! YAYYY. Then Hobby Town! YES!!! We got dryer vent hose, a Radio control car, teeny lights, battery packs screws, glews and tapes of all kinds.
She said Dad I am supposed to do it myself and I don't know what all this stuff is. I said don't worry! You WILL do it.
So I showed her where to put the screws, the glues and the does plus the don'ts
She won first prize, but when I went there with her it was then that I realized it was a project about "ROBOTICS" Not Lost in space, LOL.
If I had listened and read the project there were so MANY Other Options I could , er SHE could have done, LOL
Long story short she graduated Laude With a BS in Psych.... without my help,,, I just wonder though,,,

 

[Steleheart]

Not sure if this has been brought up or not since I'm still catching up, but if this were an accident, wouldn't they know from the autopsy already? If he fell in and drowned, wouldn't his lungs be full of liquid and waste?
Why would they have to wait for toxicology reports?
So sad...


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Because drugs could have made him unconscious but he would still drown. Many different scenarios. Someone could have given him a sleeping pill which slowed his heart and they mistakenly thought he was dead, or half awake he got up and went out and fell in, etc. Tox is vitally important. So if the post mortem showed drowning, no reason not to release the body while awaiting the tox.


:cow: