Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #16

[Hatfield]

Thanks, aa9511--neat map. I used your borders map to make a new map that superimposes the waypoints navigational route over the airspace borders map:



Been busy thinking about theories in more detail today after reading ToutCa's post (about pilot as hero, villain, or victim). Need to catch up reading, and hopefully will post more tomorrow.

Whoa. If I am looking at that map properly with the air borders showing, it sure looks like the plane went to specific spots which were in the farthest reaching corner of quite a few of the borders. Sure looks deliberate if that is the case. Sure seems like purposeful evasive manuevers.

 

[Isabelle]

IMHO, if their aircraft maintenance records were audited, they would fail.

We've already witnessed holes in their security.

Before long I think someone is going to squeal.

 

[ilovepierre]

Thanks for the clarification. I was confused by what the "experts" have been discussing. I initially had thought there were two parts, however, what I just heard tonight made it appear he would have had to exit the cockpit to another part of the aircraft.

MOO

He would only have to leave the cockpit if he wanted to disable the second part of ACARS.

 

[CARIIS]

Basically has two parts - one in the cockpit that can be and was turned off . The part that talked to sat and is the bings are below in the electonics bay. That was not tampered with.
There is a door right when you come out of cockpt that leads to electronics bay. Under the carpet. It also requires a special tool to take the screws out to get down there .

https://www.google.com/search?q=doo...ng_Enroute_to_Bejing.html%26page%3D34;400;321

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder how searchers are doing...driving me crazy...

 

[ElleElle]

Is it that many? I thought it was less than that. Most 777's fly their intended route 2-3 times a week. I don't know how to check how many times that particular route was flown.

I saw it somewhere, maybe Flight Tracker.

 

[ilovepierre]

I wonder how searchers are doing...driving me crazy...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...0-search-crews-race-to-beat-weather-1.2586654

Aircraft and ships scouring the southern Indian Ocean for wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 were racing to beat bad weather on Thursday and reach an area where new satellite images showed what could be a debris field.

 

[CARIIS]

But time is very much of the essence, because the recorder comes with an expiration date of about 30 days of battery life.



CNN safety analyst David Soucie, author of "Why Planes Crash," says the specific batteries on this missing plane, could already be dead.

Auditors at the maintenance base that took care of this particular flight, MH370, told Soucie the batteries were stored incorrectly.

"Among that audit was the handling of the pinger, of the little battery in the pinger. Those batteries and pingers need to be stored either in a refrigerated area, or room temperature area," said Soucie.

Malaysia is not a cool country, and summers are extremely hot and humid. The auditor found the batteries and pingers were stored in an area with a temperature of more than 100 degrees.

"He wrote that up as a finding, he said, 'We need to change this.'

http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/26/expert-data-recorder-batteries-could-already-be-dead/

 

[lawstudent]

Did the engines stop running? Wouldn't a fire in cargo fry the electronics? How can an aircraft fly for that long on fire missing every radar?

Cargo holds are built to suffocate any fire and put it out before anyone is aware of it. This can fail if there was a raging fire from something like tons of batteries, but the spread would still be contained for a while. Smoke could incapacitate everyone long before the electronics got fried, and if it was flying low it would be off radar, I guess. Doesn't seem extremely likely, though.

This is a good angle and point. I could see Malaysia sharing some of the responsibility financially but Boeing would probably be the larger target. Plus it gives us another entity to talk about IF this is mechanical failure but good point.

Malaysia doesn't own the airline right? The airline would be responsible if it didn't keep up with maintenance - more responsible than Boeing. It's harder to blame the government if the airline is private and wasn't doing the right things. I don't know how it works internationally.

But wouldn't ground controllers know that? Aren't signals sent that something is malunctioning? I know all about the transponder, but wouldn't the communication system still work?

I don't think ATC is told about malfunctions, but I could be wrong. It's the pilot's job to address and radio this stuff in - ATC is useless unless the pilot is asking them for clearance to land or stuff like that. ATC is already so busy, and the pilot has a better grasp of what's causing the alarm.

BBM ~ If you have hypoxia, is it possible your decisions are not sound before the unconscious state?

Also, if there was danger, wouldn't you declare an emergency and head to the nearest airport?

Hypoxia can make you extremely confused way before unconsciousness - confused enough to turn off things you should not be turning off. Re: the earlier discussion about the word "deliberate" - I agree that this could mean turning something off due to confusion. It means someone turned the switch, not that they did it maliciously. That tends to be the implication, but it's not definite at all.

What is this concept of which you speak? I am intrigued...



Wrong as in ill advised - no disagreement. Wrong as in something that should be contrary to law or that staff here should remove from the board? Not so much. I know you're not suggesting it, but we do get "demands" that we remove posts that are not properly backed up by the facts - generally meaning posts that the person complaining doesn't agree with.



That's comedy gold right there.

Right - I know it's impossible to regulate which posts are "okay" - I'm actually okay with discussing anything, no matter how far-fetched, as long as people don't state that it's the truth and ignore all the other info. But obviously that's just my opinion and it's unenforceable, and people differ on what substantiated means.

 

[LambChop]

Did the engines stop running? Wouldn't a fire in cargo fry the electronics? How can an aircraft fly for that long on fire missing every radar?

ITA with the Iranians. They were seeking freedom and that's all. JMO.

No. The engines continued to run and the airplane few for 7 more hours until the fuel would have run out from what has been reported. If the fire was extinguished with the foam in the cargo hold it had to have been put out. Or the sudden rise to 45,000 feet may have put it out.

An active fire would have brought the plane down or it would have blown up. It had just taken off so there was a lot of fuel on board. If it caught fire it was put out immediately. But it may have damaged some of the controls and the communications system. jmo

 

[lawstudent]

O/T sort of,

For law student, or anyone thinking about international corporate law.

This image is of paid lawyers, paid by the team they will oppose. No poker face. Sold out.

While these families will need attorneys, who do you think sent these there? Not their own money was it? Could it be Boeing and Rolls? Article linked below, but I think this round of attorneys knew that the internet age would expose and they couldn't hide. JMO. If I didn't work for attorneys for so long, I might have just wondered what the heck. (There are other areas of law that are great, just not when employed like this.)

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...-law-firm-to-sue-boeing-mas-over-mh370-traged

I don't think Boeing can pay for lawyers to represent the families - I think that is an ethical violation that would prevent approval of a settlement if litigation was initiated - not positive though. Conflict of interest laws would probably prevent the attorneys from agreeing to represent parties with adverse interests, even potential ones. I do think the attorneys may have decided this was a good way to get attention and put their name out there first and are agreeing to work on a contingency basis, so everyone is flocking to them.

 

[MLO]

See, and I disagree with this. I think a “mechanical failure” explanation leaves the Malaysian gov’t open to liability through either faulty upkeep or oversight as owner of the airline, kwim?

I would think (no legal experience whatsoever) that a explanation of pilot action would limit their liability and also paint them as “soft” victims, because after 30 years, how could they ever have predicted that?

Yep, because if they admit to mechanical failure, it makes all their other planes suspect. If it's pilot suicide it is just an unfortunate one off and the air line is the victim too. I assume they still want the tourism and for people to use their airline and people aren't going to do that if the believe all the planes are dodgy. A dodgy pilot it bad, but he's gone now anyway so the airline is all safe again.

 

[Momoffourboys]

"Even if the black box is located, it may not provide the answers that investigators are hoping for.
The plane’s communications systems were disabled in the first hour of the flight, before it took a sharp turn westward and continued flying silently for about seven hours.
The black box records cockpit communication on a two hour loop and then deletes all but the last two hours.
Flight data would have survived but Mr Barry said: “The bit we are interested in – where they lost contact with air traffic control – would have been overridden unless power to the recorder was lost”.
Commercial airliners are obliged to carry two black boxes, the Digital Flight Data Recorder which contains data about the speed, altitude and direction, while the Cockpit Voice Recorder keeps track of cockpit conversations and other sounds and announcements in the pilots' cabin."



http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...have-been-erased/story-fnizu68q-1226866095474

 

[lawstudent]

It's also worth nothing that in the U.S., it could be an ethical violation to represent families of multiple passengers while it's still possible one of them was responsible - the parties could become adverse to each other. Not sure how likely that is, but it's possible.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo, I don't think lawyers should be allowed to get involved until debris is found, at least...

 

[popsicle]

O/T sort of,

For law student, or anyone thinking about international corporate law.

This image is of paid lawyers, paid by the team they will oppose. No poker face. Sold out.

While these families will need attorneys, who do you think sent these there? Not their own money was it? Could it be Boeing and Rolls? Article linked below, but I think this round of attorneys knew that the internet age would expose and they couldn't hide. JMO. If I didn't work for attorneys for so long, I might have just wondered what the heck. (There are other areas of law that are great, just not when employed like this.)

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...-law-firm-to-sue-boeing-mas-over-mh370-traged

Since they are posing with an airplane in front of them... I reckon airplane chasers works just fine for me. I believe some they are representing are among those that are saying they want prove the plane really crashed into the Ocean before they believe. idk.

 

[panthera]

No. The engines continued to run and the airplane few for 7 more hours until the fuel would have run out from what has been reported. If the fire was extinguished with the foam in the cargo hold it had to have been put out. Or the sudden rise to 45,000 feet may have put it out.

An active fire would have brought the plane down or it would have blown up. It had just taken off so there was a lot of fuel on board. If it caught fire it was put out immediately. But it may have damaged some of the controls and the communications system. jmo

That is basically what has been going through my mind, trying to figure out a scenario that would disable part of the control system while ruling out nefarious activity by either the pilot or co-pilot.

MOO

 

[Tiepos]

People should immediately stop quoting my theory about blame, because I made a terrible grammatical error of the “a” vs. “an” variety.

For some reason, I am under the impression that because Australia is in charge of the search and recovery operations at the moment, they would gain possession of the voice and data recorders.

I have absolutely no idea why I’m under that impression though, and at this point, it’s completely possible that I dreamed that up.

 

[HulaMum]

No import on "unofficial". I deem it "unofficial" since the first second it came out. So that is moot. Just what I call it.

I think the phrasing, even if transcribed and disclaimed, is all I am asking about. Is it normal to ask a plane to ascend repeatedly, that is what I ask.

Yes, it is normal. ATC directed a climb to 25000' and THEN a climb to 35000'. Two stages. Normal and to be expected on a departure. The a/c appeared to comply each time.

However, my own opinion is that this transcript has been written for our viewing pleasure only. It's not real.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

People should immediately stop quoting my theory about blame, because I made a terrible grammatical error of the “a” vs. “an” variety.

For some reason, I am under the impression that because Australia is in charge of the search and recovery operations at the moment, they would gain possession of the voice and data recorders.

I have absolutely no idea why I’m under that impression though, and at this point, it’s completely possible that I dreamed that up.

When Tony Abbott addressed parliament he said anything recovered would be handed straight over to Malaysia as it will be their investigation.