Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #21

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legalmania said:
Pings becoming more consistent. I just heard on CNN that they are getting pings that are lasting long enough to pin point an area. 4 sets of pings 17 miles apart. I just have to give my gratitude to those countries who have not given up looking even though the cost are enormous.
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Tell them we need a link. :truce:
 
Hatfield said:
We are all confused so dont feel bad. I think I can help answer most of your questions because this mystery has kept me close to the news and I am learning about all kinds of things I never expected to learn about.

-There are 2 boxes because 1 is the Flight Data Recorder and 1 is the Flight Cockpit Voice recorder. They are both in rear tail of the plane but not exactly together because they truly are separate boxes and bolted in the tail section usually.

-They both have pingers and ping the same sort of frequency and same sound but they are not synced up with each other. So they are truly separate. There is no difference in the sounds they make though. They could be off-sequence or happen to be in sequence or maybe only 1 pings for awhile and then the other one for awhile due to the batteries dying.

-The experts said when the batteries die they usually just quit but there is some confusion and some guests think they could start back up and ping for awhile more and then die again. Over and over until truly no more battery life. Most think if they quit they will not ping ever again.

-This is why it seems confusing why they only hear it for only short periods of time and also why do they hear it in different spots and not the exact same spot the next day. Silt on bottom and salt water and temperature and things like that could be affecting how they hear it which is what they are telling us to explain these types of questions.
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Thank you for this, Hatfield. I wanted to ask too but since everyone else seemed to know what was going I was embarrassed.
 
Hatfield said:
I agree that the safety record is still giving us good odds that nothing should happen during our flights. It becomes an odds thing and the odds are very good that we should be ok. The only problem is the unlucky ones on that 1 in a million flight that has issues.

I do have a question if you know the answer. Many years ago it was common for airports to spray that flame retardant foam on the runway if a plane was coming in for a possible crash landing. Like if their landing gear is not showing as locked and down.

My question is they dont seem to ever do that anymore and wondering why?
Is it because they dont want to have all the cleanup for other flights or is there some other reason they stopped doing that?

I always liked that old method and I thought it worked really well to give planes a softer landing and also helped put out any flames.










A perfect example is the Iowa disaster. Why wasnt that landing strip totally covered in spray retardant foam as it came in for landing. I really think it would have helped them a lot.
Instead, the plane's wing caught the tarmac and it ended up doing cartwheels off to the right and burst into flames.

They had quite a bit of time to know that plane was coming and could have used the foam and did not use it. I know the pilot changed runways at the end but they had never sprayed foam on even the original runway so it was obvious they did not even try to use the foam and it has bothered me ever since that crash. I started to think about it and realized I have not seen the foam used for many years now. Its like they quit using it.
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To make sure I gave you the correct answer, I talked to our Fire Chief.

The foam used in the past was a protein foam that required a special vehicle, and was not environmentally friendly, and is no longer manufactured.

Aviation fluids have changed also, and are not as volatile as in the past, as well as the composition of the materials used to manufacture aircraft have changed, reducing sparks.

The fire trucks have improved also. They are made just for aircraft fire fighting. We have one with a "snozzle" that can puncture the aircraft and spray water inside.

I hope that helps answer your questions.
 
Guess I had better nap...seems like any news can't come before about 10pm where I am...
 
RT51 said:
To make sure I gave you the correct answer, I talked to our Fire Chief.



The foam used in the past was a protein foam that required a special vehicle, and was not environmentally friendly, and is no longer manufactured.



Aviation fluids have changed also, and are not as volatile as in the past, as well as the composition of the materials used to manufacture aircraft have changed, reducing sparks.



The fire trucks have improved also. They are made just for aircraft fire fighting. We have one with a "snozzle" that can puncture the aircraft and spray water inside.



I hope that helps answer your questions.
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That's really interesting! Thanks for researching!
 
RT51 said:
To make sure I gave you the correct answer, I talked to our Fire Chief.

The foam used in the past was a protein foam that required a special vehicle, and was not environmentally friendly, and is no longer manufactured.

Aviation fluids have changed also, and are not as volatile as in the past, as well as the composition of the materials used to manufacture aircraft have changed, reducing sparks.

The fire trucks have improved also. They are made just for aircraft fire fighting. We have one with a "snozzle" that can puncture the aircraft and spray water inside.

I hope that helps answer your questions.
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Plus don't they only use foam prior to a plane landing if they can't get the wheels down? I remember my husband telling me they had to foam the runway when he was in the Navy and they were headed back from Germany. The pilot could not get the wheels down so they had to land on foam. jmo
 
If the pings stop, and they conclude that the batteries have died, will they then be able to send down more than one of the remote operated sub's at a time? Also if they believe the batteries have died then will they change the payloads on them from pinger detectors to cameras for their first dives? I stay confused on the next moves, but if they believe the batteries have gone dead it just seems like they don't need the silence from only one remote sub down there, and also could send them down right away with cameras.
 
RT51 said:
Kind of OT, but for those of you scared to fly, I work at an airport, for the airport itself. I'm the one who answers the "crash phone" and gets the rescue crews rolling when we have an aircraft coming in with "trouble". We've never had a crash, usually it's something simple like a light bulb burnt out for the landing gear indicator.

While this disaster seems huge (and it is for the families involved, and I'm not brushing off their anger or grief), there are thousands of flights that fly daily without any problems. I myself am flying in May, and my only concern is if my luggage makes the transfer and it arrives at my destination with me.

What I am trying to say is: Please don't let this catastrophe cloud your future of air travel. You are safer in an aircraft than driving to the airport!

It is hard to comprehend the vast area they are searching. It is huge! They will find it, it just takes time.

Ok, enough of my pep talk, just remember, "glass half full".
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I promise it isn't that I don't know that... it is totally a lack of control for me.
In a car I am driving (almost always, I refuse to be a passenger unless we are towing the trailer, I don't like to do that.)
In a car I am in control if something goes wrong, or there are any issues.
I know the issue immediately, not when a pilot decides to tell me.
It's all about having knowledge and control in an emergency situation.
I'm not very trusting so putting my life in someone's hands is not my favorite thing in the world. :giggle:
 
Malaysia Airlines MH370: searchers narrow in on 'final resting place'

Updated 12 minutes ago

Air Chief Marshal Houston says the Ocean Shield will be looking to pick up more transmissions which would help to better pinpoint where the signal is coming from.

He says once the search area has been narrowed down, searchers could then find something in a "matter of days".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-10/mh370-closer-to-final-resting-place/5379666
 
I wish I believe they had "unquestionably" located it. :please:
 
I am starting to wonder what will be the emphasis of the "recovery". I have just re-read the transcript of last nights press conference (thank you Amee) and four times Chief Houston refers to the "final resting place" of MH370. That sounds kind of final. He is evermindful of the families and he must be well aware they are hearing these words. It is almost as if to send them the message that there are your relatives and there they will stay.

He also emphasized the importance of getting a visual. As if that will be the end of it. And I don't think he talked about bringing anything to the surface eventually.

But maybe I am reading too much into it.
 
todays search and rescue
Joint Agency Coordination Centre

Media Release
10 April 2014—am

Up to 10 military aircraft, four civil aircraft and 13 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Aircraft and ships reported spotting a large number of objects during yesterday's search, but only a small number were able to be recovered.

None of the recovered items were believed to be associated with MH370.

Today AMSA has planned a search area of about 57,923 square kilometres.

The centre of the search area lies approximately 2280 kilometres north west of Perth.

Moderate south easterly winds with isolated showers are forecast. Visibility will be fair (5000 metres) during the showers.

The underwater search continues today, with ADV Ocean Shield at the northern end of the defined search area, and Chinese ship Haixun 01 and HMS Echo at the southern end.

http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr015.aspx
 
RT51 said:
To make sure I gave you the correct answer, I talked to our Fire Chief.

The foam used in the past was a protein foam that required a special vehicle, and was not environmentally friendly, and is no longer manufactured.

Aviation fluids have changed also, and are not as volatile as in the past, as well as the composition of the materials used to manufacture aircraft have changed, reducing sparks.

The fire trucks have improved also. They are made just for aircraft fire fighting. We have one with a "snozzle" that can puncture the aircraft and spray water inside.

I hope that helps answer your questions.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for getting more information about it.

I believe this confirms that they have kind of phased out "foaming the runway" for planes coming in for a hard landing with landing gear issues. There maybe special circumstances where they may still opt to use it but we just dont see it nearly as much as many years ago.

The Navy's air craft carriers I do believe probably still have the "foaming the landing area" as part of their emergency protocol because they cannot risk a huge fire-ball on their air craft carriers.

This example is the one I remembered and the airport had plenty of time to prepare for this plane and there was never any foam put down and that is why I was wondering about it because we just dont see it much anymore like years ago.

Emergency landing (no landing gear) - YouTube
 
Hatfield said:
I had forgotten about the 2nd box. Good point that the 2nd box may make it a little more confusing.

Although it seems that they should hear it again in the exact same area if they make a pass where they heard it before. It seems a little strange that they cannot hear it in the exact same spot as the 1st time. Unless maybe they never tried to go back to that very first spot.

Just hope they can narrow it down.
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It sounds as though they don't go back to the same spot. They are searching in a 'ladder' pattern in an effort to narrow down where the black boxes actually are.


The Ocean Shield search track is in what Marks has described as a “ladder pattern” not unlike a pattern used to mow a lawn; following a straight course in one direction which is then reversed on a slightly different heading.
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedo...laysia-mh370-detect-two-new-electronic-pings/

A ship towing the locator follows a “ladder pattern,” with each leg of the search followed by a second pass in the opposite direction “on a slightly different heading,” the U.S. Navy’s Seventh Fleet said in an e-mailed statement. The course adjustments on each pass steadily expand the patrol zone.
Click to expand...

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...l-resting-place-only-days-away-searchers-say/
 
Amee said:
todays search and rescue
Joint Agency Coordination Centre

Media Release
10 April 2014—am

Up to 10 military aircraft, four civil aircraft and 13 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Aircraft and ships reported spotting a large number of objects during yesterday's search, but only a small number were able to be recovered.

None of the recovered items were believed to be associated with MH370.

Today AMSA has planned a search area of about 57,923 square kilometres.

The centre of the search area lies approximately 2280 kilometres north west of Perth.

Moderate south easterly winds with isolated showers are forecast. Visibility will be fair (5000 metres) during the showers.

The underwater search continues today, with ADV Ocean Shield at the northern end of the defined search area, and Chinese ship Haixun 01 and HMS Echo at the southern end.

http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr015.aspx
Click to expand...
Appears one US Navy P8A is enroute, along the Western Coast of AU almost to Dirk Hartog Island per flightradar24.com,,,, MY 102 call sign
 
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