Trial Discussion Thread #31

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I was referring to this post you made.



BBM 1: Here you say that Van Staden was not on Motha's photo because the photos were not taken at the same time and even though both times are the same those photos could have been taken almost a minute apart.

BBM 2: Yet here you say that the fact that things look the same in both Van S. and Motha's images prove the pictures were taken at the same time.

You can't have it both ways.

By your own reasoning one can then just as easily say Motha's photos could have been taken shortly after Van Staden took his.

What I meant was that Motha and Van Staden were both taking photos of the crime scene during the same time period. Maybe seconds apart, maybe a minute apart - but they were both there in the bathroom and the hallway and the bedroom during the same time period when Van Staden was supposed to have been alone.
 
I am particularly interested, may the great god of trials allow me to find out, just what Oscar told Standar that got Standar there at warp speed.. . so far, and this is from Van Rensburgs testimony as to what Clarice Standar said, was.. that Oscar asked Standar to drive Reeva to the hospital in his own car, Standar declined this dubious suggestion and told Oscar to lay her down in the hallway..


but that's all I know, and I want to know what got them there, fully dressed at 3.27 or thereabouts...

re the Netcare call. I think he got the recording and then hung up. The one that one could get if it was a busy night... ( 3 other women in Pretoria were murdered that night) .... the one that says, press 1 if you need an operator, press 2 if you want an ambulance, press 3 etc..
 
Has there been any reference to where the dogs were kept? If they were normally kept outside for example, they would surely go off if an intruder was skulking around. Am wondering if OP got the dogs for security purposes?

If you visit OPs twitter account he has photos posted there, one has him with the tan / blonde dog in his bed. They were inside dogs, pets. He also said that he had to put on his legs before he opened the bedroom door to let them in with him because otherwise they would knock him down to the floor upon entering.

Who really knows what his dogs did that night? I have a German Shepherd, one brought over from Germany not an American GSD, and I can tell you that she goes ballistic at anything unusual, literally anything! She's a complete maniac!!! But our family loves her for it! But in the past I had a wonderful Bassett Hound, his name was Barney - God bless him; he too was noisy if something unusual happened, but only when I was at home, otherwise he remained completely quiet (he wanted backup just in case! :smile:).
 
Yes, OP removed Reeva and carried her downstairs, retrieved his phone and called Stander, Netcare and security. Are you suggesting he should have just remained perfectly still until a crime scene photographer stumbled upon the scene?

possibly removed a watch when he went back upstairs. Where did the blood smear come from? If you know.
 
I am particularly interested, may the great god of trials allow me to find out, just what Oscar told Standar that got Standar there at warp speed.. . so far, and this is from Van Rensburgs testimony as to what Clarice Standar said, was.. that Oscar asked Standar to drive Reeva to the hospital in his own car, Standar declined this dubious suggestion and told Oscar to lay her down in the hallway..


but that's all I know, and I want to know what got them there, fully dressed at 3.27 or thereabouts...

re the Netcare call. I think he got the recording and then hung up. The one that one could get if it was a busy night... ( 3 other women in Pretoria were murdered that night) .... the one that says, press 1 if you need an operator, press 2 if you want an ambulance, press 3 etc..

yes that makes sense. but if this was the case... the lack of any conversation recorded at the netcare end, would expose a really big op lie [even by his standards]. imo.

just saying it is a shame there is no recording, to see one way or the other. i guess the netcare system cannot determine/record a 'call' unless something is said...
again the absence of something is just as damning as the presence.
 
also:
empty gun holster on the left hand bedside table...
op version' he reached under the bed for the gun.
where under the bed was the gun? on the left hand side? has it ever been said where exactly his gun was 'under the bed'?

was the gun under the bed but not in a holster?

i feel the need to listen to see if op mentions the holster at any point...

He testified that the gun was in the holster and that it was under the bed
 
The police report about the mssing watch may be pretty standard if the OP definitely knows there's a watch missing and might have been encouraged by Van M to report it as such but I'd be curious to know if he's since made a claim on insurance for it and what date as that to me would show how he was more worried about the watch than he was his dead girlfriend.

I'd also completely forgotten about Reeva's sandals being found on the left hand side of the bed. Which now means OP's prosthetics, vest and gun are all on the balcony side of the bed and yet we're to believe he spent the night on the left hand side?

Another thing I failed to notice until looking at some of the recent photos were the horizontal blinds on both the bathroom and toilet windows and I don't recall at any moment of OP's testimony that he heard the blinds moving - which they most definitely would have and they'd also be quite loud.

I was thinking about the blinds also in the bathroom. In some photos it looks like the blinds are lowered about halfway down the window, but open. I dont remember anyone testifying about this or how it would affect what the Stipps could have seen - and not sure it matters
 
possibly removed a watch when he went back upstairs. Where did the blood smear come from? If you know.

Blood smear was from Reeva's hair as he was carrying her.

The watch was stolen at a time during which only police and their team had access to the crime scene upstairs.
 
Am so pleased somebody else mentioned the dogs ... this is an aspect that has been bothering me from the get go, and yet it's never been mentioned. I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Can anyone relate to how their dogs react when there's anything out of the ordinary within their territory?
RBBM
I have two dogs. One was abused as a puppy and is extremely sensitive. She hates arguing and is very anxious around yelling. If my kids even start bickering (which is a lot!) she frantically starts barking. If they don't stop she'll start jumping on them and if they still keep at it, she becomes a mad, unstoppable, barking, shivering mess. She's really scared of any loud sound. But she's also petrified of ironing boards and vacuum cleaners. It takes a really long time to calm her down whenever she gets upset too. She is a lap dog trapped in a Rottweiler/Alsatian body...and obviously my baby. ;)

My other dog, a black lab, always starts barking when she does...only he barks at her and won't calm down himself until she stops.

So there's just no way there could even be an argument in our house without alerting most of our street as well.
 
yes that makes sense. but if this was the case... the lack of any conversation recorded at the netcare end, would expose a really big op lie [even by his standards]. imo.

just saying it is a shame there is no recording, to see one way or the other. i guess the netcare system cannot determine/record a 'call' unless something is said...
again the absence of something is just as damning as the presence.

We might yet hear the call. The defense case has only just started.
 
If you visit OPs twitter account he has photos posted there, one has him with the tan / blonde dog in his bed. They were inside dogs, pets. He also said that he had to put on his legs before he opened the bedroom door to let them in with him because otherwise they would knock him down to the floor upon entering.

Who really knows what his dogs did that night? I have a German Shepherd, one brought over from Germany not an American GSD, and I can tell you that she goes ballistic at anything unusual, literally anything! She's a complete maniac!!! But our family loves her for it! But in the past I had a wonderful Bassett Hound, his name was Barney - God bless him; he too was noisy if something unusual happened, but only when I was at home, otherwise he remained completely quiet (he wanted backup just in case! :smile:).

I have always owned Rottweilers, ADRK Rottweilers from 100% German Lines imported from Germany OR from dams and sires who have been imported from Germany and mated with another German import, and honestly - they have always ignored loud bangs (even tested on it in their ZTP with gunshots - breed assessment test) but they have always let me know the minute a person approaches the pavement, never mind the front door. Not hysterically, but with enough menace to let me know it's not my mother pulling up. I have never felt a moments fear over the years. I have a firearm that has never been drawn, but I have had to physically remove my (Now deceased RIP) Rottie male from an intruders bicep muscle.

My Rotties have always been pets first(children actually), working dogs second but they are simply programmed to act as 'early warning' systems.

Ditto for when out walking, backfiring vehicles mean nothing - but may the saints help the 'threatening toad' who happened to be strolling near the river.

My new princess will be born on the 15 May of an imported ADRK (German) sire and dam. The purest of working dogs GSD and Rottweiler, are German in bloodline, and it seems you agree.

I find that the 100% German bloodlined working dogs in general really enjoy 'order and structure' - just like their countrymen.

A pleasure to raise and own.
 
But they could have checked DNA or lip prints (or lipstick!) around the rim

My guess is that they didn't check all of these individual things is because they already have one, if not two or more, pieces of damning evidence .. one of them, I think, is something to do with Reeva's clothing ... see this from 32:00 - 32:57 (particularly from 32:43) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYRFEnT9-d0
 
We might yet hear the call. The defense case has only just started.

Well I hope we will still be getting 'The Evidence Room's' animated version of events according to Oscar, along with the 'Scream 7' recordings.

Wolmarans/vd Westhuizen and their ballistic evidence will be utterly boring by comparison. (Although the re-introduction of the wonderful interpreter might shake things up a bit; Wollie will need her in order to be understood)
 
note:
the pillow
does it look like a pillow that has been slept on for 5 hours?

imo. no.

What is also interesting about that photo is that the grey pillow on the side where Reeva was supposed to have been sleeping, is propped up against the headboard .. now assuming that bit wouldn't have been touched right from the time OP shot Reeva (and there's no reason why it would've been, either by OP or by crime scene officers) then why is it in that position? Reeva wouldn't have slept with a pillow up like that, surely? That's yet one more thing that indicates to me that neither he or she were asleep, and they had been up pretty much half the night before the shooting.
 
Since Dr. Saayman's testimony was blacked out, none of us know exactly what he said. We're left to pick at the pitiful scraps of excerpts the media deemed worthy of reporting.

I knew problems would arise when the Judge ruled that his testimony wouldn't be televised, and here we are.

We know her heart and liver were pale (ischemic i.e. insufficient blood flow) - due to severe blood loss from the gunshot wounds.

The liver is the most vascularized organ in the human body. 20% of the cardiac output rushes through it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21452433

The fact that Reeva's liver was pale tells me that she suffered significant enough blood loss to the point that her liver became ischemic.

A person doesn't have to lose their entire blood volume to die from blood loss.

Class III Hemorrhage involves loss of 30-40% of circulating blood volume. The patient's blood pressure drops, the heart rate increases, peripheral hypoperfusion (shock), such as capillary refill worsens, and the mental status worsens. Fluid resuscitation with crystalloid and blood transfusion are usually necessary.

Class IV Hemorrhage involves loss of >40% of circulating blood volume. The limit of the body's compensation is reached and aggressive resuscitation is required to prevent death.


Bleeding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the above information, as blood loss reaches 30-40% of circulating blood volume, the heart rate increases. This could account for the arterial spurts that Col van der Nest testified to.

Thank you for all of those links Sorrel. But here is the question: Where is the blood? Where did all of that blood go, if Reeva bled to death starting at 3:17 when she was shot and ending at 3:27 when she was placed on the entryway floor? Where is all of the blood?

And regarding the BIB. This is where some are trying to have their cake and eat it too! If Nest's observations are in fact arterial spurt from Reeva, and she was still alive, her heart racing now as OP carries her out and downstairs, then Professor Saymaan's opinions about her time of death are wrong; because he said that after receiving the bullet to her brain Reeva died, she died after 2-3 last breaths.

So which do you prefer to believe, Professor Saymaan or Nest. You cannot believe both, that is impossible.
 
It's mid-morning here and so delightful to read the overnight/early morning posts from so many different posters on so many different topics. Unfortunately, at some point later today, the forum will become The Provocateur Show with a majority of posts responding to one poster's "unusual" views of the case. It then becomes unreadable imo.

I wholeheartedly agree! Had to put myself in time out a few times over the last couple of days. I am so thankful for the posters that are so knowledgeable and can refute those views with facts.

For the record, I am a send OP to prison for a very long time supporter and don't mind being labeled as such.
 
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