Trial Discussion Thread #44 - 14.07.1-2, Day 34-35

[JudgeJudi]

While we're on a tea break ...

I posted this close to the end of the last thread and thought it would be good to link it with that of Cottonweaver’s upthread:

“When OP arrived home shortly after 6pm, Reeva was preparing dinner. He chatted to her for a short time while looking at cars on his iPad, then went upstairs, "showered" and changed into his pyjamas. He went downstairs about 7pm. Roux interrupts him at this point to clarify his use of the iPad. OP then says he went upstairs and was on his iPad while "drawing the bath". Yesterday Dr Versfeld testified that OP had told him “I bath rather than shower because I can’t stand long. I have a bench in my shower. I can’t stand and wash myself in the shower. I have slipped lots of times in the shower”. In the attached link you can see just about the entire shower and there is no bench in it, nor anywhere else in the bathroom.
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2014/...s-murder-trial

This appears to be yet another discrepancy in his story and an example of tailoring his disabilities to Dr Versfeld.

And from Cottonweaver:

<Respectfully snipped>

&#8220;Whilst looking at sponsorship deals for cosmetics, came across this from a mens mag:

Q Do you have a daily grooming routine?
A I usually shower as I wake up to get my day going, after my morning gym session I usually have an ice bath or shower again. We have training on the track in the afternoon and it&#8217;s pretty much the same after we have finished up there. I shave when I have to but make sure my face is always clean&#8221;.
http://thegroomingguide.com/icon/oscar-pistorius/

It just gets better and better doesn&#8217;t it. He may fool his family, he may fool his lawyers, he may fool his doctors, manager, and friends &#8211; if he has any &#8211; but he won&#8217;t fool Websleuthers!!! What a disgusting liar.

 

[Giles]

I think the combination of Oldwage and Derman might be the lowest point of the Trial so far.

 

[sicknote]

True. But is there any reasonable doubt surrounding that ? Not for me, but perhaps for the Judge, there might be.

Perhaps. That would mean the Judge throwing out the neighbours evidence. The neighbours either heard arguing or they lied. A few minutes after hearing arguments someone was shot dead. It's a big call.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

mod note:

Once court commences, we will be remaining on this current thread since there aren't many pages.

Please bump up this post, as necessary, so others can be aware that there will not be a new thread for the day's proceedings.

Thank you!

I assume this is the reason the thread I tried to start yesterday did not appear :-(

 

[Jake18]

The reports say that Oscar had no diminished capacity at the time of the killing. So he knew exactly what he was doing. And he was capable of telling right from wrong. Psychologically he was fit as a fiddle at the time of the killing.

If Oscar had a mental disorder he could not have been held responsible for his deeds. So no trial.

Also now he can not say that there was an underlying psychological condition that made him shoot.

And when it comes to sentencing he can not plead diminished capacity for mitigation. This is not good for Oscar.

Edit: And also he can not use this as the basis for an appeal should he be found guilty.

I agree. Once Nel ascertained that one of the points of Dr Voster's GAD diagnosis was for possible mitigation of sentencing he wanted a formal review. Which has shown him to be fully criminally responsible with no diminished capacity. From now on the DT can talk all they like of him being hypervigilant etc and it's just irrelevant noise.

 

[jassy writer]

Another thing about that report... surely the primary function of it (which they were testing for) was whether or not he had an anxiety disorder which might have caused him to act in the way he did at the time of the killing?

So this was tested and found not true. Surely anything else that is picked up along the way in terms of his condition now, his relationships, his temper etc. are observations and opinions, rather than being the primary reason that he was undergoing the testing for?

 

[katydid23]

Perhaps. That would mean the Judge throwing out the neighbours evidence. The neighbours either heard arguing or they lied. A few minutes after hearing arguments someone was shot dead. It's a big call.

Not necessarily lied. Perhaps she will think they were mistaken. Maybe she will think they heard OP screaming after the shooting?

 

[kaos]

Did he say that OP suffers from asthma or was it just allergies?

 

[zwiebel]

And this is an important part of the defence case?

I believe all the refs to OP not touching prohibited substances is vital to him, and he has asked his defence team to fight any suggestions about that.

So he can resume his career/sponsorship exactly where he left off, when he's freed.

I really believe he believes he can do that.

 

[Jake18]

Another thing about that report... surely the primary function of it (which they were testing for) was whether or not he had an anxiety disorder which might have caused him to act in the way he did at the time of the killing?

So this was tested and found not true. Surely anything else that is picked up along the way in terms of his condition now, his relationships, his temper etc. are observations and opinions, rather than being the primary reason that he was undergoing the testing for?

I think we've just said pretty much the same thing...

 

[jay-jay]

So maybe this guy is testifying about OP's disability and the problems associated with it to emphasize OP's vulnerability?

Perhaps he might like to look at this video --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3yZxCMoIf4

 

[kaos]

I think the combination of Oldwage and Derman might be the lowest point of the Trial so far.

Could have been worse, it could have been Oldwage and Mr Lin

 

[Jake18]

I believe all the refs to OP not touching prohibited substances is vital to him, and he has asked his defence team to fight any suggestions about that.

So he can resume his career/sponsorship exactly where he left off, when he's freed.

I really believe he believes he can do that.

I think so as well. Which is why he wouldn't even admit to watching *advertiser censored* while Reeva was cooking (or so he says). He's still very protective of his "image".

 

[JudgeJudi]

So here's yet another person saying OP is unable to bear full weight on one of his stumps which makes balance and walking difficult.

Don't you know Professor that OP can walk around in the pitch black between the bedroom and bathroom several times with a loaded gun in his hand and walk backwards while carrying a fan and never once fell over even though there were objects all over the floor? Would that surprise you Professor?

 

[christee]

Well, that's not what the report said

I indicated it's my opinion.

 

[G.bng]

Are you eliminating the neighbours that heard arguing?

EVDM heard one female voice talking sporadically between 2 to 3 in the morning as if arguing, without knowing where it came from, not even, iirc, from which direction.

That leaves a range possibles, e.g. it was another person/house, someone talking on the phone, Reeva unable to sleep practising the speech she was due to give the next day, etc. all of which, IMHO, gives a reasonable doubt which IMBW, but it seems to me must bar the judge from making a finding of an argument. But of course I may be wrong but we will only see this when Masipa's judgement is given.

 

[soozieqtips]

Let me get this right. Firing a gun out of a sunroof, screaming at Sam Taylor and her friends, raging about the Brazilian's blades, shouting at people on the phone so often his room mate asked to change rooms, slamming a door on Cassidy-Memmory, threatening to break someone's legs - none of these things indicate previous anger issues? Really?

 

[jay-jay]

While we're on a tea break ...

I posted this close to the end of the last thread and thought it would be good to link it with that of Cottonweaver’s upthread:

“When OP arrived home shortly after 6pm, Reeva was preparing dinner. He chatted to her for a short time while looking at cars on his iPad, then went upstairs, “showered” and changed into his pyjamas. He went downstairs about 7pm. Roux interrupts him at this point to clarify his use of the iPad. OP then says he went upstairs and was on his iPad while “drawing the bath”. Yesterday Dr Versfeld testified that OP had told him “I bath rather than shower because I can’t stand long. I have a bench in my shower. I can’t stand and wash myself in the shower. I have slipped lots of times in the shower”. In the attached link you can see just about the entire shower and there is no bench in it, nor anywhere else in the bathroom.
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2014/...s-murder-trial

This appears to be yet another discrepancy in his story and an example of tailoring his disabilities to Dr Versfeld.

And from Cottonweaver:

<Respectfully snipped>

“Whilst looking at sponsorship deals for cosmetics, came across this from a mens mag:

Q Do you have a daily grooming routine?
A I usually shower as I wake up to get my day going, after my morning gym session I usually have an ice bath or shower again. We have training on the track in the afternoon and it’s pretty much the same after we have finished up there. I shave when I have to but make sure my face is always clean”.
http://thegroomingguide.com/icon/oscar-pistorius/

It just gets better and better doesn’t it. He may fool his family, he may fool his lawyers, he may fool his doctors, manager, and friends – if he has any – but he won’t fool Websleuthers!!! What a disgusting liar.

Amazing, isn't it .. it's just lie after lie .. now we find out this morning that Reeva *wasn't* the first g/f he had wanted to accompany him to his sporting championships. Interesting to see that his invite to ST was also done in some sort of 'guilt tripping' way .. different to Reeva's 'invite', but still nonetheless neither of them were just normal invites (like for instance you would expect a couple like David and Victoria Beckham travelling together to one of his championships).

 

[minor4th]

Legal profession.

But it was the witness who said it lol

 

[zwiebel]

We are back and I just heard someone give a great big sigh in court.