Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #2

[iulia]

One of the many faces of a life lost and a future gone..May you rest in peace

24 year old Canadian Andrei Angel was a 2nd year medical student from Ajax, Ontario who was on his way to Bali for a vacation with his German girlfriend (not sure if she was on this flight as well)

His parents applied for a Visa to come to Canada and after many years they were granted the visa and moved the family to Canada from Romania in hopes of a better life

Andrei Anghel, medical student from Ontario, identified as Canadian victim in MH17 disaster


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...entified-as-canadian-victim-in-mh17-disaster/


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...dren-aids-experts-and-others/article19672910/

From what I've read in the Romanian press, he was travelling with his girlfriend. I checked the passenger manifest posted by MAL and there is a German passenger named Olga.

 

[SouthAussie]

I just want to post this, so we can all remember what Russian-controlled radio first said, while they are all now saying they don’t know where the black box(es) are ..


"The “black box” from the airplane traveled to Moscow “for investigation,” Russian radio station Kommersant FM reported."

http://www.thedailybeast.com//artic...ack-box-sent-to-moscow-for-investigation.html

 

[SouthAussie]

And I also want to post this, so we can all see the propaganda that is being published to the Russian people ….


“Malaysia would send two C-130 Hercules military transport planes to Ukraine to participate in the operation to establish causes of the airliner crash, a military official said on Saturday, adding they were entirely ready to provide any help where needed.

Malaysian Prime Minister said his country did not intend to draw conclusions based on suppositions about the crash, but would look for irrefutable evidence.”

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741449

 

[CARIIS]

could not get links at bottom!
http://www.macon.com/2014/07/18/3203768/rescuers-comb-scene-of-malaysian.html?sp=/99/148/837//
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/17/world/europe/maps-of-the-crash-of-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17.html?_r=0
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=LsC&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=np&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=uoLKU4HCA8vKsQSC_4HQBw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1088&bih=506&q=crane%20used%20to%20remove%20asian%20crash#channel=np&q=crane+used+to+remove+asiana+crash&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&tbm=isch
http://www.macon.com/2014/07/18/3203768/rescuers-comb-scene-of-malaysian.html?sp=/99/148/837//#storylink=cpy
http://www.citypopulation.de/php/ukraine-doneck.php


ponder this! Look at this pic, check out ROADS! I see what looks like a two lane road in the area . And anywhere else in the debris feild just wide open spaces. Just logistically how would the cavalry get there? how long would take? I dont know if giant cranes can cruise through fields?

In the two little towns nearby where do they put bodies? To get refriderated trucks there on the two land road how long would that take to stop the decomp?

.....The road from Donetsk, the largest city in the region, to the crash site was marked by five rebel checkpoints Friday, with document checks at each.

One of the closest towns has a population of 5,000 while the other has a population of 18,000

 

[zwiebel]

Today.

'Concerns were raised over the investigation into the disaster today when a team of international observers say they have been refused full access to the site, with one “visibly intoxicated guard” firing a warning shot into the air during their visit......

However, the OSCE monitors are now back at the crash site after rebels allowed them access on foot, but said they were not allowed access to part of the fields where the wreckage is located..'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rom-site-and-destroying-evidence-9616490.html

 

[Snoopster]

According to a comment made by the buzzfeed reporter, @maxseddon, by one of his twitter pics, the LifeNews reporter is accompanied by his rebel minder and he has the best access to the scene.

Here is a link to an article on the LifeNews website. (Content is in Russian and I am posting a quote translated with google.)

Vice Premier of the People's Republic of breakaway Donetsk Purgin Andrew said that the situation at the crash site of a Malaysian ship is deteriorating with each passing hour: Kiev authorities are delaying the arrival of experts to the crash site. Because of this, the bodies are still at the crash site, as they can not be exported to the commission soon.

http://lifenews.ru/news/136920

So, it appears that the rebels are blaming Ukrainian officials for the delay in arrival of investigators (naturally). So let's see, the rebels control the area, but are blaming the Ukrainians for not dealing with the situation expediently?

 

[SilkySifaka]

Waking up here on the West Coast of the US to the latest updates on WS and MSM leaves me utterly saddened :cry:

I'm left with no answers as to how to resolve this, without escalating the situation on a worldwide scale. :moo: I weep for the souls lost. Each and every person, innocent in my eyes, and the children and the animals, all so defenseless! :no:

How can we bring them home? How can we allow them the dignity they deserve? My heart aches as the stories of their lives and those who survive them are brought to light. It's just not right! :no:

The conflict that has gripped the area has now risen to a level that the world has no choice but to do something. But what? How? When? Will their decision affect us all?

I pray with every fiber of my being that the choices they make are the right ones. I am bewildered, and so very thankful that I don't have to make those decisions.

If only everyone were able to see what marlywings posted earlier:

Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one ..............John Lennon

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10766393


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I am thankful I don't have to make the decisions as well. What scared me the most was hearing Rep. King say yesterday that the congress needs to stand behind Obama. That is something that repulicans don't normally say to a democrat and makes me wonder if boots on the ground are a contingency plan.

However I do think there has to be strong action taken no matter how little i like it or how much it scares me. I trust both superpowers to keep their hands off nukesm its to neither advantage even as they work through this issue with a far outside possibility of military intervention.

If those bodies keep laying in the field i will want military intervention to get them back. This is, as you said, so saddening...and sickening as well

 

[jslk]

I thought Obama/Cameron (UK PM) were pressing for an emergency meeting of the UN? That really needs to happen IMO so some kind of coordinated effort can take place, the recovery of bodies and investigation really needs expediting. No one country can act unilaterally IMO - it needs a truly international approach.


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[SilkySifaka]

max seddon (@maxseddon) tweeted at 2:12am - 19 Jul 14:

Rebels denying access to #MH17 crash site until "investigative brigade" finishes work. Won't say where the bodies are being taken. (https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/490423811201064960)

This tweet was posted approximately 5 hours ago




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Now I have lost any patience I had, move these rebels out militarily if necessay

 

[SouthAussie]

Today.

'Concerns were raised over the investigation into the disaster today when a team of international observers say they have been refused full access to the site, with one “visibly intoxicated guard” firing a warning shot into the air during their visit......

However, the OSCE monitors are now back at the crash site after rebels allowed them access on foot, but said they were not allowed access to part of the fields where the wreckage is located..'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rom-site-and-destroying-evidence-9616490.html

Funny that, because Russian MSM says ....

They apparently are the ones who have asked OSCE to investigate the “crash” and travel to the site “when necessary”.

They have asked the OSCE to be present at checkpoints to make sure that no evidence leaves the area.

They have asked the local authorities to “preserve intact all the pieces of equipment, fragments, personal belongings and other things so as to preserve the crash site in a proper state.”

They don’t understand why Obama is calling for sanctions when it is all Ukraine’s fault.

:banghead:

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741413
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741357

 

[SilkySifaka]

I thought Obama/Cameron (UK PM) were pressing for an emergency meeting of the UN? That really needs to happen IMO so some kind of coordinated effort can take place, the recovery of bodies and investigation really needs expediting. No one country can act unilaterally IMO - it needs a truly international approach.


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They had it yesterday, Ambassador Samantha Powell spoke very strongly at it.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, Germany's Angela Merkel has been having a chat with Pres Putin today.

BERLIN - German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, "agreed that an international, independent commission.... should quickly have access'

They've also agreed that Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should quickly get together to establish a ceasefire and safe passage to investigate the crash/collect the bodies. But. Sigh. Russia's insisting the rebel separatists now blocking access should be included, Ukraine doesn't like that.

So I doubt a single bit of progress will be made.

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/interna...in-agree-on-international-probe-of-mh17-crash

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I don't know how long this video will be available, but if you have a few minutes to watch, this local (metro-Detroit) couple is currently in Kiev as they continue the process of adopting teens from Ukraine.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/novi-family-now-stuck-in-ukraine/27033532

 

[CARIIS]

I hope the pricks that did this get sore - they are the ones that are having to move the bodies in weeds serves em right!

 

[CARIIS]

Oh, Germany's Angela Merkel has been having a chat with Pres Putin today.

BERLIN - German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, "agreed that an international, independent commission.... should quickly have access'

They've also agreed that Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should quickly get together to establish a ceasefire and safe passage to investigate the crash/collect the bodies. But. Sigh. Russia's insisting the rebel separatists now blocking access should be included, Ukraine doesn't like that.

So I doubt a single bit of progress will be made.

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/interna...in-agree-on-international-probe-of-mh17-crash

I agree IMO it is just a political dance, stalling while everything gets destroyed then sure come on in.One would think that if one is starting to move bodies , it might make some sense to have somewhere to place already there. Piling bodies up on the side of the road, IMO, is not really doing much. What is the diff between a body lying in heat 100 yards from the road ---they are just playing for media (notice how many videos are being released)

Its all a act, political, treating everyone like idiots .....................

Anyone heard any news of some sort of transportation at least in action or something a pickup truck?

 

[alreetlike]

Donations and tributes have been pouring in in memory of the two football fans local to me who were killed in the disaster, including a huge amount from our rival team. Fantastic response, really heartwarming.

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-07-19/...or-newcastle-pair-killed-in-mh17-plane-crash/

I found out why the younger of the two looked familiar to me - he worked in my local supermarket so I'll have seen him around there.

 

[zwiebel]

Here is another twitter from a journo at the scene, but it's in Dutch. Maybe ZaZara will drop back in later and tell us if there's anything enlightening. he does have one English tweet there though, that says the OSCE have said the relationship with the rebel leaders 'is improving'.

https://mobile.twitter.com/obk

ETA: That was only three hours ago.

 

[ZaZara]

Here is another twitter from a journo at the scene, but it's in Dutch. Maybe ZaZara will drop back in later and tell us if there's anything enlightening. he does have one English tweet there though, that says the OSCE have said the relationship with the rebel leaders 'is improving'.

https://mobile.twitter.com/obk

Do I hear my name? I translated Olav's tweets yesterday. Today's are heartbreaking.

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree IMO it is just a political dance, stalling while everything gets destroyed then sure come on in.One would think that if one is starting to move bodies , it might make some sense to have somewhere to place already there. Piling bodies up on the side of the road, IMO, is not really doing much. What is the diff between a body lying in heat 100 yards from the road ---they are just playing for media (notice how many videos are being released)

Its all a act, political, treating everyone like idiots .....................

Anyone heard any news of some sort of transportation at least in action or something a pickup truck?

The only truck I have heard of is the one that drove an anti-aircraft battery toward the Russian border at 4:50am that morning.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-at-the-flight-17-crash-site/article19682941/

 

[hayaletcatcher]

I was sitting at Prague airport as this news broke, just casually browsing twitter while waiting for my gate number.

The screens around that normally show BBC News changed to EuroSport pretty quick, the departure board got a lot of red on it for cancellations of planes that would be heading that way. Everyone just hit their phones/laptops/tablets, it was really strange feeling within the whole place.

Still catching up in first thread as I haven't been able to have the news on until now but I am just so horrified by it all. I just hope it was super quick for those poor people. And also feel for, not only friends and family but other crew of MA, what a horrific year they have had. Such a massive lost to the scientific community, all that expertise lost. Of course every single person is a massive lost to someone, but it just makes it hit home that much more what the world will miss over such a disgraceful act.

Watching BBC and just hoping international efforts are allowed all access and quickly because it sounds like it is being trashed, the local people are having to pull bodies from their roofs?! Ugh. They are still saying they want to search the site for the BB so do they believe it's like to still be there?( again I'm still catching up!)

No matter what nationality of those on board, no matter if it was an accident or not, we can't just turn a blind eye to this. It's just the beginning of what's yet to come. Putin is a loose canon, yet he has a lot of support because he has been very, very smart about it. I think David Cameron is poopin' his pants.

*back to catching up*