Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[otto]

Depends if you want the dry academic version or the easy to understand language most of us speak. Not everyone cares about the protocol for sharing academic information, and why would we? We aren't writing a thesis here.

I don't think so. In discussing cases like this on this forum, it is fairly common that there is an appreciation for references, such as forensic anthropology, that inform rather than entertain. It is worth noting that there is a very good reason that blog remarks cannot be copied and pasted into this forum, and it has nothing to do with "dry academic" versus "easy to understand". It relates specifically to accuracy and validity of source.

 

[Slebby]

There is an obituary for NO in the Calgary Herald today. I don't know if we are allowed to post the link, but you can search "Calgary Herald obituaries" to find it.

 

[otto]

With all due respect Otto, we can't just go adjusting things when we're talking about subjects like this. The exact calculations have already been done specifically for this case and Calgary's temperatures. It was posted this morning.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...Rob_Tripp/blog

Exactly, with all due respect, we can't go around posting broken links to opinions that do not state facts, statistics, formulas, calculations or references, but which then draw conclusions as though an authority on this case.

 

[otto]

There is an obituary for NO in the Calgary Herald today. I don't know if we are allowed to post the link, but you can search "Calgary Herald obituaries" to find it.

Of course you can post a link to the victim's obituary. Links to the obituaries of Alvin's mother and Kathryn's mother have already been posted.

 

[Krystine]

I don't think so. In discussing cases like this on this forum, it is fairly common that there is an appreciation for references, such as forensic anthropology, that inform rather than entertain. It is worth noting that there is a very good reason that blog remarks cannot be copied and pasted into this forum, and it has nothing to do with "dry academic" versus "easy to understand". It relates specifically to accuracy and validity of source.

Accuracy and validity are important if you are the people in charge of determining the exact stage of decomposition of a deceased missing person. Seems to me we are just 'people on the street', who could care less what the exact formula to determine that might be. It's just one topic among many being discussed by a group of lay people. We don't pretend to be anything more than bystanders.

 

[Slebby]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/ca...aspx?n=nathan-obrien&pid=172366448&fhid=18552

 

[Krystine]

Exactly, with all due respect, we can't go around posting broken links to opinions that do not state facts, statistics, formulas, calculations or references, but which then draw conclusions as though an authority on this case.

This is not a forum for forensic anthropologists, scientists and academic elite.
I take exception when someone states something about an individual or group as an absolute, and usually jump in to say we shouldn't label and generalize about people. But on the topic of figuring exact stage of decomposition? I personally could care less whether we have it 'right' or not.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Since we are discussing weather & exposure...the elements and the estimated time until skeletonization...I saw an interesting show a few years back *possibly even a decade or more* on Dateline or 60 Minutes...some such program...about The Body Farm in Tennessee...I am trying to find the full episode...it was fascinating...

I did find a small clip of 3 minutes with a bit of information...if you are in any way squeamish...you may not want to watch it...

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/body-farm-sci

and another article...

http://fac.utk.edu/

Since when is a blog a more reliable reference than MICROBIOLOGYTODAY 192 VOL 28/NOV 01. I think that all due respect should go to Microbiology Today, rather than the blog.]

My apologies, being new, I didn't realize the rules regarding posting of blog material. Despite the vehicle of information perhaps not being the best, the information provided in the blog is derived from Dr. Bill Bass who is the founder of The Body Farm, and also of the Fort Knox Forensic Centre, which Lori McA references in her quote above. IMO, the information provided is very accurate and research in decomposition is ongoing on a daily basis and is certainly on par, if not superior with the text you reference in your quote. JMO. My post was for information purposes for the decomposition rate of the bodies, and not so much to incur a debate as to which source is better than the other. Please refer to the links that Lori McA has provided regarding Dr. Bass' theories of decomposition.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I haven't noticed any changes in FB photos of people I kno

A couple of my friends have the black, it's seems to be black for people who don't have a cover photo uploaded. When they have no cover photo it used to default to a white/gradient to slightly gray at the bottom, now it's black. Still not sure if Facebook said why this is, will try to find out.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Exactly, with all due respect, we can't go around posting broken links to opinions that do not state facts, statistics, formulas, calculations or references, but which then draw conclusions as though an authority on this case.

LOL...true! When I posted the link, it wasn't broken...strangest thing! Anyway, I've reposted the information...properly this time. Thanks

 

[Tinkerbel1]

The Facebook blackout cover photos are a Facebook glitch or the new default (the backgrounds used to be a gradient white/gray before), so the blackouts weren't Liknes/O'Brien specific.

And I never thought about it like that, why the memorial when they had so much hope for them to be found…That does signify they might've changed what they believe happened. Maybe they're just exhausted and realizing they have to accept the words of LE to start trying to get through day to day.

I'm wondering if perhaps it was presented to them by the Ministers of their church to go ahead and put NO's soul to rest. Some religions place a huge importance of ensuring that the deceased (especially a child) are safe in God's Kingdom...that is typically the reason for baptising a baby as well, to ensure that it will be safe with God should something happen. It may have been said that it is fine to continue to have hope, but that there's no harm done in performing the ceremony for NO's protection and home with God. Just a thought.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I don't think so. In discussing cases like this on this forum, it is fairly common that there is an appreciation for references, such as forensic anthropology, that inform rather than entertain. It is worth noting that there is a very good reason that blog remarks cannot be copied and pasted into this forum, and it has nothing to do with "dry academic" versus "easy to understand". It relates specifically to accuracy and validity of source.

As mentioned, I didn't realize we couldn't copy/paste from a blog. Ric Tripp quoted Dr. Bill Bass who is a Forensic Anthropologist so I assumed the information was correct. I have since responded referencing a couple of links another person posted on Bill Bass, so I'm sure you'll find all the credentials, etc required for validity there. His research is phenomenal. I hope you've had the opportunity to watch the 3 min video Lori McA posted on the "Body Farm"...fabulous. There's also a Forensic Centre dedicated to the decomposition research that is phenomenal...I had no idea! Dr. Bass is actually working on an Atlas of 'stages of decomposition' with pictures of bodies in their various stages of decomposition in order to help Crime Scene investigators get more accurate information from the bodies that are discovered.

 

[Linike]

There is an obituary for NO in the Calgary Herald today. I don't know if we are allowed to post the link, but you can search "Calgary Herald obituaries" to find it.

Thank you.
Fellow sleuthers - this should be a very huge clue that these individuals are not missing. Also would lend one to believe, as I do, there are no bodies to be found.

 

[Sillybilly]

link for Nathan's obituary

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/ca...aspx?n=nathan-obrien&pid=172366448&fhid=18552

Rest in Peace, dear little man
:rose: :rose: :rose:

 

[Krystine]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/ca...aspx?n=nathan-obrien&pid=172366448&fhid=18552

A beautiful eulogy for this little boy. Five year olds are all about curiosity and making their parents proud. I bet his good parents made his short life happy and carefree.
When little ones are taken I always picture them busy 'up above', putting the markings on puppies and kittens. We will be seeing you, sweet little man

 

[Linike]

A beautiful eulogy for this little boy. Five year olds are all about curiosity and making their parents proud. I bet his good parents made his short life happy and carefree.
When little ones are taken I always picture them busy 'up above', painting the markings on puppies and kittens. We will be seeing you, sweet little man

My heart breaks for them.........having to sit down to prepare these words for their dear innocent son.....this is when I look up and say why Lord, why.........and there is never an answer...........

 

[Slebby]

I think they did a nice job on NO's obituary. It focused on him, and the joy he brought to their lives, not the crime, or the grief. I also applaud the quiet manner in which they dealt with the matter of a memorial service - the obit ran the day after the memorial service. I hope for their sake they were able to honour their son in privacy.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Exactly, with all due respect, we can't go around posting broken links to opinions that do not state facts, statistics, formulas, calculations or references, but which then draw conclusions as though an authority on this case.

Yes... one must write those themselves.

 

[wendiesan]

Global News Calgary
Grieving Family Says Final Farewell
http://globalnews.ca/news/1544568/grieving-family-says-final-farewell-to-superhero-nathan-obrien/
September 4, 2014

This is not an official transcript, and is not connected to any of the participants.
It is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

News Hour Calgary - Family, friends, gather to say goodbye to Nathan O'Brien

Reporter = Nancy Hixt RO = Rod O'Brien = Nathan's father JO = Jennifer O'Brien = Nathan's mother NO = Nathan O'Brien

NH: Dressed in superhero costumes, Spiderman T-shirts, hockey jerseys, and bright colours, family and friends, and a lot of children, gathered together to celebrate Nathan O'Brien--his life cut horribly short at just five years old.

More than nine weeks ago, Nathan and his grandparents, Alvin and Katherine Liknes, went missing. Hope they would be found or their bodies recovered faded as police laid first and second degree murder charges in the case. Now, finally, a time to gather and remember.

Nathan's family would like to express their heart-felt thanks and gratitude for all the thoughtful expressions of love and kindness by relatives and friends during their time of loss and bereavement.

RO: [press conference excerpt] "Nathan, you are our superhero right now."

JO: [press conference excerpt] "Mummy and Daddy love you more than anything in this world."

NH: It's been a heartbreaking time for his parents who continue to struggle to come to terms with what's happened.

Voice off camera: [on home movie clip] You've got one more Nathan.

NH: Nathan was well known as a little superhero. He loved to dress up and pretend he was superhuman. The fun he had playing dress-up is forever captured on home video. Now cherished even more.

RO: [on home movie clip] You show me your new bike.

NO: [on home movie clip] My new bike?

NH: He was an active young boy who loved life, enjoying every moment of every day to the fullest.

RO: [on home movie clip] Say hi.

NO: [on home movie clip] Hi.

NH: At his memorial, Jenn and Rod O'Brien gave a Parents' Tribute. As well, several songs were written to mark the farewell that came way too soon.

"Nathan, hello, good-bye
I'll see you on the other side.
Nathan, sweet child of mine
I'll see you on the other side.?

In saying good-bye, they sang

"Godspeed, little mammon
Sweet dreams, little man
Oh my love will fly to you
Each night on angels' wings
Godspeed
Sweet dreams."

Nancy Hixt, Global News

 

[Tinkerbel1]

That was my point. It's hard to judge any family's choices in these circumstances, but I know I would have a hard time without a body or verdict. Maybe they are doing it for the other kids - that would certainly make sense.

I just query the timing.[/QUOTE]

Why do you query the timing? Do you think they should've waited for something? I'm not sure when a good time for this would be?

Wow! I sure wouldn't know what to do if I were them...it must have been so awfully hard. How do you essentially let go when there's nothing to let go of, and may very well never be? My heart goes out to all people who have now, or have ever had in the past, such a heartbreaking situation. It's bad enough to lose someone under normal circumstances, but this must be unbearable. While I'm grateful to be blessed and not have had such a thing happen in my family, I pray for deliverance from the broken emotions and pain these families must be suffering. God Bless them all.