Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[Lalalacasbah]

While I haven't heard of *anything* about the search being called off or remains in *any* form being attributed to the victims, I still wonder why the memorial services are now being held - this week and next week. Did something change? Did the families decide it was time?

Maybe to try to get back to some type of normalcy (as close as they possibly can given such terrible circumstances) since school has started. The O'Brien's have 2 other children to look after and one starting school. I think about JO/RO often and honestly I can't imagine how they will pick up the pieces.

It would be so hard trying to make school lunches, tend to a little baby, doing daily things like cleaning and showering, etc. all the while still falling apart emotionally. So utterly sad. But I read somewhere JO is quite strong willed, so hopefully someone in the family can be a rock, but rocks need rest and healing too.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

deleted by ldbd

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Tinkerbel1 I saw that link earlier, but the post was snipped and so I didn't know what it was, so I didn't open.. and now I can't open yours either, it is broken , but thanks for posting.

Lol...awww Here, maybe this one will open...https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...Rob_Tripp/blog

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Maybe to try to get back to some type of normalcy (as close as they possibly can given such terrible circumstances) since school has started. The O'Brien's have 2 other children to look after and one starting school. I think about JO/RO often and honestly I can't imagine how they will pick up the pieces.

It would be so hard trying to make school lunches, tend to a little baby, doing daily things like cleaning and showering, etc. all the while still falling apart emotionally. So utterly sad. But I read somewhere JO is quite strong willed, so hopefully someone in the family can be a rock, but rocks need rest and healing too.

You are soooooo right! It's unimaginable....walking through a fog like zombies probably. And the other little ones missing their brother Totally heartbreaking.
Sending love, light, blessings and prayers for God to lift the pain from their hearts and minds. May they find peace, healing, strength and joy in the treasured memories of their little boy and parents.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Sorry Tinkerbel1, I hadn't seen your post yet when I posted, .. great minds think alike?

Yes! They do!

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, I wasn't sure.. just threw it out there as a potential possibility.. what is requied for a death certificate in the absence of the dead body though?

I have never heard of any insurance policy that requires a memorial service to be held in order to pay benefits. All they need is a death certificate.

 

[deugirtni]

No, sorry, it doesn't.. is anyone else having same difficulty? Or just me?

Lol...awww Here, maybe this one will open...https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...Rob_Tripp/blog

 

[winnnancy]

I have never heard of any insurance policy that requires a memorial service to be held in order to pay benefits. All they need is a death certificate.

I'm wondering about timing... The Facebook picture blackouts? Now the memorial service in a family who maintained that they would hold out hope until they are found.

 

[news.talk]

Yes, I wasn't sure.. just threw it out there as a potential possibility.. what is requied for a death certificate in the absence of the dead body though?

The Medical Examiner can declare that death occurred if there is evidence of death in the form if blood loss incompatible with life and/or other human remains such as brain tissue.

 

[news.talk]

I'm wondering about timing... The Facebook picture blackouts? Now the memorial service in a family who maintained that they would hold out hope until they are found.

That was my point. It's hard to judge any family's choices in these circumstances, but I know I would have a hard time without a body or verdict. Maybe they are doing it for the other kids - that would certainly make sense.

I just query the timing.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

No, sorry, it doesn't.. is anyone else having same difficulty? Or just me?

It didn't work for me either, I think the 'sho…' part of the link doesn't work. There should probably be letters were the …'s are.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm wondering about timing... The Facebook picture blackouts? Now the memorial service in a family who maintained that they would hold out hope until they are found.

The Facebook blackout cover photos are a Facebook glitch or the new default (the backgrounds used to be a gradient white/gray before), so the blackouts weren't Liknes/O'Brien specific.

And I never thought about it like that, why the memorial when they had so much hope for them to be found…That does signify they might've changed what they believe happened. Maybe they're just exhausted and realizing they have to accept the words of LE to start trying to get through day to day.

 

[winnnancy]

The Facebook blackout cover photos are a Facebook glitch or the new default (the backgrounds used to be a gradient white/gray before), so the blackouts weren't Liknes/O'Brien specific.

And I never thought about it like that, why the memorial when they had so much hope for them to be found…That does signify they might've changed what they believe happened. Maybe they're just exhausted and realizing they have to accept the words of LE to start trying to get through day to day.

I haven't noticed any changes in FB photos of people I kno

 

[Cherchri]

I understand the reasoning behind LE and MSM not wanting to report on suicides.. but.. in this case on Saturday where an unidentified, presumably male body of unknown age was found dead in Fish Creek Park/Bow River, and considering that I haven't read any reports of still-missing males lately in the area, and considering this Liknes case continues to have 3 missing bodies... you would think that the least LE/MSM could do is to report that the body has been ID'd, no foul play suspected, etc., just so that people like me, and perhaps you, aren't left wondering, you know?????????? PMO!

There was an obituary for a seemingly wonderful, handsome, talented, athletic and much loved young man who passed on August 29. 4th year of business studies MRC and only 21 years old. Nothing published as to how he died. I wonder if this is related. I spent hours checking FB pages etc and no ref to cause of death. Celebration of his life tomorrow.

 

[otto]

https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...Rob_Tripp/blog

It's actually dependant on the temperature outside. It is based on 'Accumulated Degree Days'. At an ADD of 800, the body is well on it's way to skeletization, (that would be 10 x 80 deg F. days). Based on Calgary's temperature since the trio has gone missing, by August 24th there was an ADD of 3500...triple what is required for a body to be reduced to bare bone or bone with dry mummified tissue.

So according to the above information, they would have been skeletal before the end of July, give or take.

Since when is a blog a more reliable reference than MICROBIOLOGYTODAY 192 VOL 28/NOV 01. I think that all due respect should go to Microbiology Today, rather than the blog.

Ref: http://www.archeo.uw.edu.pl/zalaczniki/upload617.pdf

 

[otto]

Maybe to try to get back to some type of normalcy (as close as they possibly can given such terrible circumstances) since school has started. The O'Brien's have 2 other children to look after and one starting school. I think about JO/RO often and honestly I can't imagine how they will pick up the pieces.

It would be so hard trying to make school lunches, tend to a little baby, doing daily things like cleaning and showering, etc. all the while still falling apart emotionally. So utterly sad. But I read somewhere JO is quite strong willed, so hopefully someone in the family can be a rock, but rocks need rest and healing too.

The O'Briens have one surviving toddler together. The oldest child most likely lives with his mother.

 

[otto]

Perhaps a little more effort should be put into reading the scientific article rather than trying to figure out the link to a blog. It would take the guesswork out of calculating decomposition rates.

At the time that the article was written, "Dr Arpad A. Vass is currently a Senior Staff Scientist at Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Adjunct Associate Professor at the University of Tennessee in Forensic Anthropology. Oak Ridge National Laboratory, 1 Bethel Valley Road, X-10, Bldg 4500S, Rm E148, MS 6101, Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6101, USA."

http://www.archeo.uw.edu.pl/zalaczniki/upload617.pdf

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Deleted

 

[Krystine]

Southern Alberta is dry so we get those big swinging hot and cold temps over a day and a night. Actually we had a longer hot than normal summer, usually once Stampede is done it's mid to low twenty's in the day but we were getting high twenty's up until last week. However, when night falls so does the temperature, we don't get those nice hot summer nights, I think the altitude plays a part in this too.

As for decomposition outside of the elements, flies and their larvae really get things moving too. There was a great old documentary on a small town Sherriff who solved a murder because he had backwoods experience; after forensics had deemed that bodies were not in the area, he argued (and was correct) that they were, as, it was only common to see a certain fly if there were carrion nearby. There's also (or was a website/livecam) from UVic on what happens and how fast crabs and such take care of bodies that get dumped in the Ocean.

Oh my!!

 

[Krystine]

Perhaps a little more effort should be put into reading the scientific article rather than trying to figure out the link to a blog. It would take the guesswork out of calculating decomposition rates.

At the time that the article was written, "Dr Arpad A. Vass is currently a Senior Staff Scientist at Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Adjunct Associate Professor at the University of Tennessee in Forensic Anthropology. Oak Ridge National Laboratory, 1 Bethel Valley Road, X-10, Bldg 4500S, Rm E148, MS 6101, Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6101, USA."

http://www.archeo.uw.edu.pl/zalaczniki/upload617.pdf

Depends if you want the dry academic version or the easy to understand language most of us speak. Not everyone cares about the protocol for sharing academic information, and why would we? We aren't writing a thesis here.