Hannah Graham: The Search

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To be fair, we don't really know how many people he's killed. It could be that MH was the first and he got lucky. Wouldn't that kind of make sense that he graduated from rape and sexual assaults while in college to 2005 in Fairfax where he wasn't prepared. .

I disagree. Fairfax victim was "beaten bloody" and chocked to the point of being unconscious. A few more minutes/seconds, she'd have been dead.
 
I disagree. Fairfax victim was "beaten bloody" and chocked to the point of being unconscious. A few more minutes/seconds, she'd have been dead.

Yes, wasn't he startled during that attack as well?
 
Good point about the bumper not fixed if part of human trafficking but maybe he spends his money on drugs, alcohol and hookers.
 
Yes, apparently girls were missing left and right there, and detectives were chalking it up to, oh they must have run away.

You know, typical girls, getting sexually assaulted because they were just "asking " for it, and typical girls for running away, you know, with their hormones and all. You know, they can't think straight with their hormones. We need more female investigators/prosecutors....everything! It has been male-dominated for way too long.

Absolutely agree.
 
RE: WG @ themom @sixecho

I completely understand where you're coming from with WG. I'm still really torn. My first thought was to label him Creepy McCreeperson and think he was "the guy" but I quickly felt awful about that once I actually noticed that JM was walking beside Hannah, as opposed to being the reflection LE said he was. Then I jumped back over the fence thinking he was working in tandem with JM because it was just too creepy. To date though, he hasn't been mentioned by LE again and I'd think he would be if there was anything to go on as they'd want info on him too.

My current theory (and it's only MOO) with WG is this: I think he happened to be out that night,maybe a late dinner followed by drinks and was deciding whether to continue on to a bar/and or meet up with friends, hence the checking of the phone. I think the group of guys behind Hannah had made some loud comments at her expense/jokes about her being drunk (read something to that effect somewhere) and WG stopped in the alcove out of a sense of concern.

My rationale behind that is that he comes out of the alcove and places himself in between her and the 3/4 guys and JM. I'd like to think that if he were stalking her as prey, he wouldn't have placed himself in between her and the group but would have followed behind like JM did at first. Having said that, once JM strode forward and ahead to place his arm around Hannah I can see WG backing off because he assumed JM knew Hannah. Thinking to himself, "whew, at least she's with a friend".

With regards to his description of JM being off, I'm willing to cut him some slack on that. He was most likely drinking on top of the fact that he wouldn't really have had cause to pay strict attention to JM's hairstyle which was the only thing off in his description. For example, I went to the doctor's office today and passed someone that I felt was creepy or odd. If you asked me to describe him now, only 12 hours later - sober then and now, I couldn't tell you anything about him other than he had a tattoo and smelled rancid like rotting meat.

Because of all that I actually feel bad for WG. If he had absolutely nothing to do with this and everything was truly on the up and up, how horrible he must feel knowing he was suspected by the internet (not just here) for trying to do the right thing and be a good Samaritan. I can only hope that all the suspicions directed towards him doesn't cause others to decide to keep to themselves next time. After all, if it weren't for WG, little to no attention would have been paid to JM as LE had him pegged as just a reflection.

But... I could be completely wrong. And if I am, whatever shred of faith left I have in humanity is gone. This case has been predictable and heartbreaking every step of the way.

Having lost someone my self ages ago, these monsters never change. They all have the world fooled for a time, they all want power, if not caught immediately they strike again, they all cause unbelievable pain and grief and they all deserve to be in prison.

As always, MOO. Nothing here is meant to be argumentative or offend. Theory and personal opinion only.
 
I know that the search is including drones form Va Tech and certain agencies have been using helicopters in the search, but what about aerial photography? Surely there might be someone willing to donate/volunteer that service.

It may seem redundant because they're using drones and helicopters but both methods rely on human eyes viewing a moving image. Unless I'm mistaken - they could be photographing as well - I'm not familiar with how that works. With aerial photography, you have the benefit of capturing an acre + at a time and it's amazing how many ground disturbances you pick up from viewing them.

Knew a person that had this done upon completion of their home and you could still easily pick up were they had uprooted a tree 8 months prior on the land.

Just a thought. Was hoping she would be found yesterday with the fantastic ground search they've been doing but getting a little worried they may scale it back before anything of significance is found.

****This is not to assume she was buried, just to say it's easy to notice anomalies in terrain with this method.
 
I think Longo would have a very hard time telling Hannah's parents the search is over or slowing down. If my daughter was missing, I'd love his passion, obsession, grandstanding, or anything else he's doing. I think of the Grahams daily.
Thoughts and prayers to the searchers.
 
I don't think we're in disagreement.

When LE never brought up WG again, I assumed they confirmed an alibi for him but didn't disclose that in order to keep the noose loose on the perp so to speak.

As far as LE changing the description, you could be right, I just wonder if that would have helped or hurt. In my mind, putting out the wrong description would hinder tips coming in from people who actually saw JM because he has dreads. So if you're asking for info on a guy without dreads, you're not getting info you need. It sounds counter-intuitive to me. Personally, I think it may have just been a mistake.

On the Coy Barefoot website there is a picture of JM taken the night of the abduction. Looking at that picture, one can see how someone would think JM has shaved or closely cut hair. The braids are long enough that they are pulled fairly tight and tied behind his head. Depending on one's angle and perception, the dreads could be easily missed.
 
So frustrating! They really need to know when he was next seen after leaving Tempo in his car. Maybe they do know what time he returned home. How much time elapsed? No cameras on stoplights? What direction was he headed? No bars were open at that hour and probably very little traffic, but if he passed any driver on a country road it seems like his god-awful-ugly-orange-beater of a car would have stood out like a sore thumb. I am sure it was seen, but people just haven't searched the recesses of their memory. JMO
 
My guess is;
1. WG had a valid alibi for where he was after the video, when HG was seen by others at tempo with JM
2. WG did describe someone with dreds, but LE changed it so JM wouldn't run

I don't believe that. WG gave the wrong scrip. Happens all of the time. LE hadn't viewed the tapes entirely yet. They are in real time, and to get any info from them, they have to be enhanced and focus put on them, and someone who is pro at it has to view the selected footagle. To get that little bit LE has shared took a lot of time and work. WG came in before the tapes were aired, and LE went with his scrip, and then saw the tapes, and the scrip didn't match. It's not like WG was focused much on the guy, it was Hannah who caught his eye, not him. Once she went off with someone, that was it.

It shows how off eye witnesses could be. That it's on tape is a good thing, because he is so way off with the bald head. Couldn't be off more. I don't think in something this critical, that LE would publicly give out a false scrip on purpose. They needed to find that guy FAST, as a life was likely hanging in balance and throwing out a false description would so confuse matters. They didn't even have enough stuff on JM when they traced his car down to pick him up or to hold him at the police station. They needed info on Hannah, first and foremost, anyone who saw her that night at that point, so they would have wanted ANYONE that saw her to talk to them.
 
RE: WG @ themom @sixecho

I completely understand where you're coming from with WG. I'm still really torn. My first thought was to label him Creepy McCreeperson and think he was "the guy" but I quickly felt awful about that once I actually noticed that JM was walking beside Hannah, as opposed to being the reflection LE said he was. Then I jumped back over the fence thinking he was working in tandem with JM because it was just too creepy. To date though, he hasn't been mentioned by LE again and I'd think he would be if there was anything to go on as they'd want info on him too.

My current theory (and it's only MOO) with WG is this: I think he happened to be out that night,maybe a late dinner followed by drinks and was deciding whether to continue on to a bar/and or meet up with friends, hence the checking of the phone. I think the group of guys behind Hannah had made some loud comments at her expense/jokes about her being drunk (read something to that effect somewhere) and WG stopped in the alcove out of a sense of concern.

My rationale behind that is that he comes out of the alcove and places himself in between her and the 3/4 guys and JM. I'd like to think that if he were stalking her as prey, he wouldn't have placed himself in between her and the group but would have followed behind like JM did at first. Having said that, once JM strode forward and ahead to place his arm around Hannah I can see WG backing off because he assumed JM knew Hannah. Thinking to himself, "whew, at least she's with a friend".

With regards to his description of JM being off, I'm willing to cut him some slack on that. He was most likely drinking on top of the fact that he wouldn't really have had cause to pay strict attention to JM's hairstyle which was the only thing off in his description. For example, I went to the doctor's office today and passed someone that I felt was creepy or odd. If you asked me to describe him now, only 12 hours later - sober then and now, I couldn't tell you anything about him other than he had a tattoo and smelled rancid like rotting meat.

Because of all that I actually feel bad for WG. If he had absolutely nothing to do with this and everything was truly on the up and up, how horrible he must feel knowing he was suspected by the internet (not just here) for trying to do the right thing and be a good Samaritan. I can only hope that all the suspicions directed towards him doesn't cause others to decide to keep to themselves next time. After all, if it weren't for WG, little to no attention would have been paid to JM as LE had him pegged as just a reflection.

But... I could be completely wrong. And if I am, whatever shred of faith left I have in humanity is gone. This case has been predictable and heartbreaking every step of the way.

Having lost someone my self ages ago, these monsters never change. They all have the world fooled for a time, they all want power, if not caught immediately they strike again, they all cause unbelievable pain and grief and they all deserve to be in prison.

As always, MOO. Nothing here is meant to be argumentative or offend. Theory and personal opinion only.

My first reaction, and it may still be the case, is that WG's interest in Hannah was not so savory. Attractive girl, looking confused, probably clearly inebriated, alone at that ime of the night with skimpy shiny top, yeah, it would catch some male eyes. But at this point, it doesn't matter. WG's story fits the facts right on tape. He sees Hannah, shows interest for whatever reason and then JM embraces her and off she goes with him willingly All on tape. And then WG probably has an alibi and is probably still on video footage afterwards, and no Hannah. JM and Hannah are the focus now as they go off tape, are placed around Tempo afterwards, and then disappear off tape.
 
To be fair, we don't really know how many people he's killed. It could be that MH was the first and he got lucky. Wouldn't that kind of make sense that he graduated from rape and sexual assaults while in college to 2005 in Fairfax where he wasn't prepared. Then MH, where he got lucky. And then HG where he's not so lucky and we have cameras in more places? Also, WG will forever freak me out. What he did was unnatural. Shoot, maybe WG is a serial killer too. He just happened to cross paths with JM. I'm sure the chances of that are close to zero but you never know. WG's behavior disturbed so much that I wouldn't be surprised.

From the two college attacks, one thing that is clear, is that some victims will raise a stink, and though JM did not get charged by LE and the girls dropped the charges for whatever reason, the consequences were there for JM He got kicked off the team and out of school. The colleges did not care that he was "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". That the law wanted to drop it, was their business, the colleges kicked him out, did what they could without going awry of the law themselves. It's not up to them and they are not permitted to get involved in these things beyond what they did which give JM their most severe sanction: expulsion Anything else was up to LE and the court system. What more could a college do?

So he lost his way of life TWICE, not just once, but twice,when his victim told on him, and that's not even with the police getting heavily involved.

So I think he kinda got it that if he took without permission from girls, they can fight back with charges that will affect his life. He has a job with UVA right now at the medical center. If Hannah had gotten loose and filed a complaint with LE and the unversity, even if LE did not go after him, it's pretty clear what would likely happen.

But also, Hannah could have been so out of it, that he just dumped her still alive in a field or woods somewhere. That's a motivation to keep looking as well as the evidence she has on her.

JM had a lot of chances to "get it" . If he was just too impulsive, too aggressive in his approach to women and sex, the two college cases should have pounded it into his brain, that this is seriously wrong, and you can lose it all. Instead, he kept it up, knowing it was wrong, and the consequences. He had to have been told that he could have been convicted of rape and assault inthose cases that were dropped, and he saw first hand how you get dropped like a hot potato even when the case doesn't go that far He got expelled from 2 colleges, and he still continued this way? I think he is sick in the head and a sociopath. He needs to be locked up away from people for the rest of his life because he's just too dangerous to be around others.
 
On the Coy Barefoot website there is a picture of JM taken the night of the abduction. Looking at that picture, one can see how someone would think JM has shaved or closely cut hair. The braids are long enough that they are pulled fairly tight and tied behind his head. Depending on one's angle and perception, the dreads could be easily missed.

No argument from me at all. As I said, in my long-winded post, it's totally conceivable that WG just misidentified the hair in general. Who really pays attention to the hair on most guys?...lol

Plus, it's not as if WG knew in that moment that it would be beneficial to notice every detail of JM anyway. I couldn't tell you what color shirt my doctor was wearing yesterday as I had no reason to pay attention. The info WG provided was way better than I could have done, even if he got the hair wrong.

What we need to know is what JM did with his time after Tempo. I would have hoped JM's roommates could have been of some assistance. Did he come home that night? What time did he get home? Was he dirty? etc. Even just something as small as knowing he got home at 6:00 am Saturday morning could drastically narrow the search area.

I'd also really hope that LE has requested and received CCTV from all area businesses, gas stations, car washes etc. for Saturday. Not that going through them all wouldn't be tedious, but it'd be worth it if they caught JM's car on CCTV anywhere that night. Even if he was caught on a McDonalds CCTV on Rte X at X time it would be benefical.
 
This whole sad story makes me wonder just how many college campus RAPES are brushed under the rug across the country, all in the name of preserving the "good name" of the school :(. I know of a very specific example of sexual impropriety at my very tiny rural liberal arts college, and the staff member involved is still employed there nearly 20 years later.....I'm sure it happens virtually everywhere! (Students and staff)
Sad :(.

Actually, the two case where JM is involved, the colleges did not "brush it under the rug". They EXPELLED a football player based on the allegations. What else can a college do? They are not LE. It was up to the victims and LE to follow up in the legal venue. They didn't. Maybe they couldn't. There has to be a certain standard of proof, evidence for even a chance of a conviction in these types of cases, and most of the time when it sexual harrassment, molestion, rape, that standard is not met. It's too important that the accused is not falsely accused. Those rights are strongly in place, and yes, the victims have to be scrutinized just as they must be in any cases. The problem with rape is that often the circumstancial evidence is againt the victim, and it comes down to her word against his. ANd in such cases, the courts cannot convict due to the presumption of innocense.

There was a case brought up here, where a victim agreed to sex, and then when she tried to leave, she says, the guy decided to rape her. Now how the heck do you win a case like that? It could be a lie Maybe when she left, the guy let her know he thought she was a *advertiser censored* and a low life and made crude remarks that cut to the quick, so she decidest to accuse him And yes, guys will do that. Pick up a girl, court her and afterwards dump her like she's garbage, and through the ages it's well know how bad the "wrath of a woman scorned" can be. there has to be evidence for a felony charge to be a go, and the nature of rape is such that it's difficult to prove.

The colleges did not care that the accusations did not make it to court and to a conviction. They expelled a pretty danged good football player, one who was a contributing player on those cases, never mind the victims dropped the charges , that it never went to cours or whatever. What else could a college do? They reacted with their toughtest sanction and it was up to LE and the victim to take it anywhere in the courts. It's not up to a colllege to decide whether a case is prosecuted. They just got rid of the guy when the accusation hit them as it was against their codes of conduct and they could do so. And all of this is years ago before this focus that is now on date rape and non consensual sex. IT's not the colleges at al, but LE and the victims that did not do their thing. Likely they could not with the evidence on the table With all of this right now, look at the actual charges out on JM. That's the best LE could do when he flew the coop, and they had nothing till he handed them the reckless driving charge by doing that right in front of their faces.
 
I just saw on Parker Slaybaugh's FB that LE is searching in Nelson County today. He said investigative leads landed them there. Where is this in respect to C'ville/Abemarle County? TIA

Where are you Hannah?
 
Actually, the two case where JM is involved, the colleges did not "brush it under the rug". They EXPELLED a football player based on the allegations. What else can a college do? They are not LE. It was up to the victims and LE to follow up in the legal venue. They didn't. Maybe they couldn't. There has to be a certain standard of proof, evidence for even a chance of a conviction in these types of cases, and most of the time when it sexual harrassment, molestion, rape, that standard is not met. It's too important that the accused is not falsely accused. Those rights are strongly in place, and yes, the victims have to be scrutinized just as they must be in any cases. The problem with rape is that often the circumstancial evidence is againt the victim, and it comes down to her word against his. ANd in such cases, the courts cannot convict due to the presumption of innocense.

There was a case brought up here, where a victim agreed to sex, and then when she tried to leave, she says, the guy decided to rape her. Now how the heck do you win a case like that? It could be a lie Maybe when she left, the guy let her know he thought she was a *advertiser censored* and a low life and made crude remarks that cut to the quick, so she decidest to accuse him And yes, guys will do that. Pick up a girl, court her and afterwards dump her like she's garbage, and through the ages it's well know how bad the "wrath of a woman scorned" can be. there has to be evidence for a felony charge to be a go, and the nature of rape is such that it's difficult to prove.

The colleges did not care that the accusations did not make it to court and to a conviction. They expelled a pretty danged good football player, one who was a contributing player on those cases, never mind the victims dropped the charges , that it never went to cours or whatever. What else could a college do? They reacted with their toughtest sanction and it was up to LE and the victim to take it anywhere in the courts. It's not up to a colllege to decide whether a case is prosecuted. They just got rid of the guy when the accusation hit them as it was against their codes of conduct and they could do so. And all of this is years ago before this focus that is now on date rape and non consensual sex. IT's not the colleges at al, but LE and the victims that did not do their thing. Likely they could not with the evidence on the table With all of this right now, look at the actual charges out on JM. That's the best LE could do when he flew the coop, and they had nothing till he handed them the reckless driving charge by doing that right in front of their faces.

BBM

First post here. (Hello everyone!)

Liberty University has a history of covering up sexual assaults. They have been financially penalized for it in the past. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sites/def...enter/cleryact/libertyuniversity/1983_001.pdf

How do we know that Liberty didn't make a deal with the victim? "You don't move forward with charges and we'll expel him. It will save you and us the embarrassment and it will make him go away."

Of course, I don't know that they DID do that - but it certainly needs to be investigated.
 
I just saw on Parker Slaybaugh's FB that LE is searching in Nelson County today. He said investigative leads landed them there. Where is this in respect to C'ville/Abemarle County? TIA

Where are you Hannah?

Slightly southwest from Cville.
 
This idea would also tie in the WG weirdo from the tapes. I still think hes connected as someone who was coordinating with JM, as it appears he is doing on video. I still think its strange how he gave the description of the Fairfax rapists sketch as the person he saw walking away with HG...and I find it fishy that there was later a supposed sighting of this closely shaven black guy w a goatee up in Fairfax. I think that was a lie, too. I think it was fabricated to make LE think the Fairfax rapist was on the loose again. Which, ironically, he was...

I don't know....sometimes I think maybe WG had it in his head to try to "hit on" Hannah - you know, flirt, etc.. Maybe he had some idea that he might be able to score, but in an innocent, normal way. But then she was walking too fast and then he saw JM come up to her, so he discarded that idea.
 
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